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  #5161  
Old Posted: Apr 26, 2012, 3:22 AM
christof christof is offline
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Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
If I could I would give millions to the school district of Philadelphia. So... I hope this wasn't aimed at me.
I am a Central grad. I would give millions to Central if I could. But to the school district? Forget it. They would waste it before the ink dried on the check.
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  #5162  
Old Posted: Apr 26, 2012, 12:34 PM
We Got Five We Got Five is offline
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I am a Central grad. I would give millions to Central if I could. But to the school district? Forget it. They would waste it before the ink dried on the check.
Well said. I'm a PCL (Philadelphia Catholic League) alum and frankly embarrassed at what has happened there. The city's infrastructure i.e. school system, business base, and education base are weak, with the school system being in the worst shape. Will the most recent changes help? Time will tell. It comes down to accountability - and as a city, we have not been accountable for our shortcomings. Change was promised in the Nutter administration, nothing has happened. And because we are a 1 party rule city; we consistently follow the same ideology. Now I'm not saying the "other" side is better - I'm focusing more on the balance of ideas and agendas.
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  #5163  
Old Posted: Apr 26, 2012, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Zoot View Post
1441 Chestnut is owned by "CHESTLEN DEVELOPMENT LP." A google search led me to one of their development partners (Colgate Development) that lists the project with a Q4 2012 groundbreaking. There is also a rendering of the old Waldorf Astoria design with a W now affixed to the top. Cope Linder is listed as the architect - the same architect as the Waldorf Astoria (and their site still has it listed as the Waldorf). The site also says that it will be part hotel and condo. Didn't the slow sales of the Ritz teach them anything? In this market, luxury condos require a great location and views, which this site won't have (at least not in a premium price range).

http://www.colgatedev.com/philadelphia.htm


I noticed the developer's website also has that old Philly rendering of Comcast, and Manderville place. I think it was done by Saso. That rendering shows up eveywhere. I saw it on a tee shirt once.
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  #5164  
Old Posted: Apr 26, 2012, 2:35 PM
Jelly Roll Jelly Roll is offline
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I think that Craig Spencer (Arden Group) did the Ritz. Maybe these people played a role, but I don't think they were the main developer.

I certainly could be wrong, and in any event I never said it would be impossible, just unlikely. Just an opinion. I just think that only a big time developer - like a Forest City, Related, Hines, etc. - with alot of credibility could pull off a project of this magnitude especially in these times.

There are alot of smaller entrepreneurial firms out there that try to pull these things off, but my impression is that very few succeed even in good times. I'm just not very optimistic.

But of course it's possible! Here's hoping.
I just wanted to comment on this part of what you said. I realize that for most people the economy and everything tied to it has not been very good since 2008-2009 but the big money construction firms and developers do not share that same view at this point. My cousin owns a construction company that does a lot of work in Philadelphia and according to him there are many projects that are getting fast tracked to be built. These are mainly dorms, apartments buildings and hotels. I am not saying that the W gets built but I would not be suprised.
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  #5165  
Old Posted: Apr 26, 2012, 3:50 PM
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Well call me an optimist, but I am encouraged by the fact that there are six or seven cranes gracing the sky in our city - - soon to be one or two more. It's also important not to forget the smaller construction projects - - residentials and the like. While a single project does not mean much, it makes for a lot of work when aggregated. Also, many retailers have opened up within the past six months (especially in my neck of the woods). This isn't too prominent to most people - - but a lot of work is being done inside of existing structures.

Here's to more!
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  #5166  
Old Posted: Apr 26, 2012, 3:51 PM
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I've heard it opined that the Philadelphia School District fails in part because it is too big--remember that most suburban school districts have smaller student bases and even geographic areas than the PSD.

I like the idea of splitting the PSD into about 4 or 5 separate districts, each separately administered.
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  #5167  
Old Posted: Apr 26, 2012, 4:54 PM
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Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
I've heard it opined that the Philadelphia School District fails in part because it is too big--remember that most suburban school districts have smaller student bases and even geographic areas than the PSD.

I like the idea of splitting the PSD into about 4 or 5 separate districts, each separately administered.
The size of the district is not the issue. It all comes back to demographics. Suburban school districts draw from wealthier demographics and have the real estate tax base to fund it. I went to Central, but my younger brother went to William Tennent out in Warminster and there were complaints about the school district there, just because it drew from a more middle, lower-middle class community then for example Council Rock. Not to excuse the administrative dysfunction of PSD, but there's really only so much they can do to fix a such a deeply ingrained issue.

So to come back to your point, splitting the school district in 5 would probably help the better off neighborhoods (Northwest, Far Northeast, Center City and adjoining hoods), but the poor neighborhoods would do just as poorly, if not worse.
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  #5168  
Old Posted: Apr 26, 2012, 4:55 PM
summersm343 summersm343 is offline
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Originally Posted by PhiLaw View Post
Well call me an optimist, but I am encouraged by the fact that there are six or seven cranes gracing the sky in our city - - soon to be one or two more. It's also important not to forget the smaller construction projects - - residentials and the like. While a single project does not mean much, it makes for a lot of work when aggregated. Also, many retailers have opened up within the past six months (especially in my neck of the woods). This isn't too prominent to most people - - but a lot of work is being done inside of existing structures.

Here's to more!
I completely agree with all of this... I think we are in a good state right now. Some people feel because we are not getting 500+ foot towers built that we are not doing well but the amount of construction going on is insane, single family homes and all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
I've heard it opined that the Philadelphia School District fails in part because it is too big--remember that most suburban school districts have smaller student bases and even geographic areas than the PSD.

I like the idea of splitting the PSD into about 4 or 5 separate districts, each separately administered.
I think this is the best idea and it will be easier to manage... or a school district for each area? A Center City school District, University City District, South Philly District, Lower north Philly District, Northwest Philly District, etc. etc.

I think this would work much better than the current system.
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  #5169  
Old Posted: Apr 26, 2012, 5:05 PM
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Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
I completely agree with all of this... I think we are in a good state right now. Some people feel because we are not getting 500+ foot towers built that we are not doing well but the amount of construction going on is insane, single family homes and all.
True, if you want to be cheered up, take a walk (or a drive) through Northern Liberties and Fishtown. Construction going on everywhere! Dare I say, even more construction then I remember during the boom years. Haven't spent much time in South Philly lately, but it sounds like the same thing is going on there. Just a matter of time until Kensington starts getting some serious overflow.
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  #5170  
Old Posted: Apr 26, 2012, 6:47 PM
Jelly Roll Jelly Roll is offline
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Originally Posted by CentralGrad258 View Post
True, if you want to be cheered up, take a walk (or a drive) through Northern Liberties and Fishtown. Construction going on everywhere! Dare I say, even more construction then I remember during the boom years. Haven't spent much time in South Philly lately, but it sounds like the same thing is going on there.Just a matter of time until Kensington starts getting some serious overflow.
I know it is not overflow but up by K & A www.kensingtonrenewal.com has just started rehabbing their first house. According to them the neighborhood has been making a lot of progress over the past 2-3 years. Ideally over the course of the next year or two most of the vacant houses over there will be able to be rehabbed and get people back living in them.
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  #5171  
Old Posted: Apr 26, 2012, 9:05 PM
sayitaintso sayitaintso is offline
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Liberty has a spec office bldg planned for nw corner of 19th and arch. Same height as 1 & 2 Logan approx 400 ft & 30-35 floors. Good infill for this location
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  #5172  
Old Posted: Apr 26, 2012, 10:39 PM
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That would be a nice development on what is now a parking lot.

Source?

CentralGrad--I am well aware of that problem, and I agree that the issues the PSD faces are demographic in nature (and are sapping districts like William Penn)...

Whatever. It appears that this collapse is going to be an excuse to sell off most of the city's public schools to charter schools--it's pretty clear that whatever the agenda is at the PSD is, quality education it isn't.
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  #5173  
Old Posted: Apr 27, 2012, 2:17 AM
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Originally Posted by sayitaintso View Post
Liberty has a spec office bldg planned for nw corner of 19th and arch. Same height as 1 & 2 Logan approx 400 ft & 30-35 floors. Good infill for this location
Sounds fantastic. I knew LPT had bought the SE corner of 19th and Arch - they own the NW corner too? Wow.
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  #5174  
Old Posted: Apr 27, 2012, 2:18 AM
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it's pretty clear that whatever the agenda is at the PSD is, quality education it isn't.
Has it ever been except for at a few select schools?
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  #5175  
Old Posted: Apr 27, 2012, 6:58 AM
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Originally Posted by CentralGrad258 View Post
The size of the district is not the issue. It all comes back to demographics. Suburban school districts draw from wealthier demographics and have the real estate tax base to fund it. I went to Central, but my younger brother went to William Tennent out in Warminster and there were complaints about the school district there, just because it drew from a more middle, lower-middle class community then for example Council Rock. Not to excuse the administrative dysfunction of PSD, but there's really only so much they can do to fix a such a deeply ingrained issue.

So to come back to your point, splitting the school district in 5 would probably help the better off neighborhoods (Northwest, Far Northeast, Center City and adjoining hoods), but the poor neighborhoods would do just as poorly, if not worse.

I have been condo shopping in the suburbs for the last year and RE taxes there are 3 to 5 times higher than in Philadelphia.
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  #5176  
Old Posted: Apr 27, 2012, 5:14 PM
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Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
Whatever. It appears that this collapse is going to be an excuse to sell off most of the city's public schools to charter schools--it's pretty clear that whatever the agenda is at the PSD is, quality education it isn't.
Whatever is pretty much my response at this point too. The writing is on the wall, public education is clearly the next big privatization target. Charter schools, vouchers, excellence academies....whatever. Just another excuse to extract some private gain from public funds.
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  #5177  
Old Posted: Apr 27, 2012, 7:00 PM
Jelly Roll Jelly Roll is offline
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Originally Posted by sayitaintso View Post
Liberty has a spec office bldg planned for nw corner of 19th and arch. Same height as 1 & 2 Logan approx 400 ft & 30-35 floors. Good infill for this location
Do you have any timeline on this? I believe this would be the first spec office building in the city since around 1990-1991 ish. If this is true that would be a major deal. Liberty recently sold roughly $195 million of suburban office space at the start of this month. That coupled with building a spec tower in Center City definitely shows that they believe demand for office space is going to be in the cities as opposed to the suburbs over the next decade. It was also noted that they were looking to expand their industrial holdings. This could be a major shift in the ways have been done in this region is all the new office space is added in Philly.
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  #5178  
Old Posted: Apr 27, 2012, 8:15 PM
Jelly Roll Jelly Roll is offline
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State of Center City 2012 was released yesterday. I suggust taking a look as it gives a very detail description of what has been going on over the past few years. http://www.centercityphila.org/socc/
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  #5179  
Old Posted: Apr 27, 2012, 10:08 PM
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The typical Philadelphia response: "It's not our fault, someone else must be to blame! Someone else needs to come save us while we continue to toss money down the drain!" From someone who has a lot of room to talk because I have lived outside of the mighty metro of Philadelphia (and this is not meant to be sarcasm btw, the metro is a VERY important piece of the state as we all know), the state no longer has any interest in bailing the city out of its messes...and rightfully so. Besides the obvious arguments, the state has MANY messes on its hands right now.

State funding is one thing, but being expected to pick up the pieces time and time again for completely incompetent and inept city leadership for DECADES is another.
The state has run the PSD for over 10 years now. If anyone is to blame for the current mess, its the state.

The state cuts were roughly analogous to tying one of a boxer's arms behind his back and sending him out to get slaughtered.

Was there fat to cut? Sure. Was there some gross incompetence? Sure. Was there some well-intentioned but ultimately misguided (and costly) decision making? Most definitely. The cuts went beyond all of this. The district has essentially given up trying to reduce its deficit, because there really isn't anything else to cut.

This isn't the state trying to live frugally. It is an outright attack on the system.

Given the openly stated intent of the national GOP to cut education spending, I don't see how this is arguable.

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Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
I've heard it opined that the Philadelphia School District fails in part because it is too big--remember that most suburban school districts have smaller student bases and even geographic areas than the PSD.

I like the idea of splitting the PSD into about 4 or 5 separate districts, each separately administered.
You'll have some very good school districts with this method. You'll also have some absolutely horrendous ones. It would save half the city & finish the other half off completely.

The model that the district appears to be shifting into with small networks of schools is a bit less darwinistic but might accomplish much of the good you are looking to accomplish with the hope of minimizing the worst of it.

We'll see if they are able to pull it off.

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Originally Posted by CentralGrad258 View Post
The size of the district is not the issue. It all comes back to demographics. Suburban school districts draw from wealthier demographics and have the real estate tax base to fund it. I went to Central, but my younger brother went to William Tennent out in Warminster and there were complaints about the school district there, just because it drew from a more middle, lower-middle class community then for example Council Rock. Not to excuse the administrative dysfunction of PSD, but there's really only so much they can do to fix a such a deeply ingrained issue.
Study after study shows that children from impoverished undereducated families don't do well in school. Go figure.

They come into Kindergarten with roughly half the vocabulary and basic pre-academic skills that their wealthier & whiter suburban peers come into Kindergarten with.

Why is it a surprise that the PSD doesn't do as well on standardized tests as, say, Council Rock? Study after study predicts this exact result.

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Originally Posted by Cro Burnham View Post
Has it ever been except for at a few select schools?
I'm a teacher. I worked in one of the worst schools in the city and I'm now lucky enough to work in one of the very best schools in the city, one of those few select schools you mention.

There is certainly dead wood in the district, but no teacher who gives a damn (which is the overwhelming majority of them) aims for anything other than providing a quality education to their students.

I know it is popular to shit on teachers right now, but the outside perception of what teachers in those struggling schools do is completely off the mark. Some of the most dedicated and talented teachers I've worked with in the past decade plus were and still are at that "bad" school. Most of them stay there specifically for the kids.

It's funny, I got a job at a prestigious school and, according to the type of accountability systems that some advocate, I went from being one of the worst teachers in the system to one of the best practically overnight.

But really it comes down to the fact that my current school handpicks who gets to be a student there, while my old school did not have that ability. When I came home after working at my old school, I was exhausted. When I come home now, I'm energized. At my new school, I have the time and energy to think creatively, to plan ahead at a high level. At my old school, I was too busy putting out fires to ever get to that point.

It isn't fair to expect the Comprehensive High Schools to compete with my school, we take their best and brightest and leave them with every challenging kid.

Don't even get me started on charters. People think charters are magical wonderlands of learning, but the emperor has no clothes. Charters take who they want, get rid of who they don't want, they get more money than district schools, and they have far less red tape (for better or worse) than district schools.

This isn't to say that all charters are frauds because they aren't. Some of them take advantage of the ability to be creative and develop high quality programs. However, there exists the potential for some absolutely egregious mismanagement of public funds. The examples of which that have gone public are only the tip of the iceberg. I know of others that are much worse, like the principal who hired her unqualified mother to run a daycare for the staff.

I'm rambling now, but the fundamental problem here is evident and it is unreasonable to expect the district to be able to solve it.

Something the district could do is marketing itself more effectively. Penn Alexander, for example, draws from the same teacher talent pool as every other elementary school in the city and uses mostly the same curriculum, but people have this idea that it is this amazing place that is totally worth paying a premium for a house within its catchment, not to mention camp outside in line to ensure their child gets a spot in a Kindergarten class. The key differences with those "bad" schools? The word Penn, some extra dough per kid, and the resulting perception among middle and upper middle class white parents that it is a good school. By the mere act of sending their relatively well off children to the school, these well-educated parents make Penn Alexander a "good" school. The district should copy this approach over & over again.

Build a new school. Give it some fancy affiliation with a prestigious city institution. Boom. Insta-success.
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  #5180  
Old Posted: Apr 27, 2012, 10:24 PM
sayitaintso sayitaintso is offline
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Originally Posted by Jelly Roll View Post
Do you have any timeline on this? I believe this would be the first spec office building in the city since around 1990-1991 ish. If this is true that would be a major deal. Liberty recently sold roughly $195 million of suburban office space at the start of this month. That coupled with building a spec tower in Center City definitely shows that they believe demand for office space is going to be in the cities as opposed to the suburbs over the next decade. It was also noted that they were looking to expand their industrial holdings. This could be a major shift in the ways have been done in this region is all the new office space is added in Philly.
I was mistaken on the spec. LPT is courting 2 tenants that would fill the entire space. The tenants are currently in CC, but there are no large blocks of trophy space left...
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