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  #3621  
Old Posted May 26, 2012, 7:11 PM
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Originally Posted by realcity View Post
I can't wait until it shocks all the Stuart Street supporters, $150 mil will build an awesome stadium. Even the biggest haters and non-football fans will have to force themselves to go to at least one game to experience it.

Stuart Street would've been held up with the OMB for a decade. Look at the Setting Sail Plan as an example.
It didn't have to be the West Harbour... just building at the current location is ridiculous. Look was IWS did for that area... amazing isn't it? (sarcasm).

The proposed LRT will stop right in front of the stadium... oh, not it wont.
At least the GO train will get people from outside of Hamilton to easily commute to the game - oh, that's right - the GO train won't even be close to it.
It's even a crappy for those who want the driveway-to-driveway experience.

This new stadium can be used for summer concerts... fantastic! Oh, it's in the middle of a scummy residential area - so much for that.

Yeah, building at the current site is a great idea. It does soooo much for this city.

I'm not stepping foot inside the new stadium in that location, and the same goes for many people I know. They don't go there now, why would they with a new stadium?
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  #3622  
Old Posted May 26, 2012, 8:41 PM
markbarbera markbarbera is offline
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No matter where the stadium was to be located, the fact remains the same. Stadiums simply are not effective catalysts for revitalization. Its current (and future) location proves this. The same would be true at any alternate location, which is why I am glad the Barton-Tiffany area's incredible potential was not squandered by plopping a stadium on top of it. Now that there's an OMB decison on Setting Sail, this area is on the verge of an incredible rennaisance.
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  #3623  
Old Posted May 26, 2012, 10:10 PM
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No matter where the stadium was to be located, the fact remains the same. Stadiums simply are not effective catalysts for revitalization.
Any way you slice it, the current location is terrible from a number of different angles.

Hope it and our inclusion in the Pan-am games falls through. Big waste of money.
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  #3624  
Old Posted May 27, 2012, 12:58 AM
bluevue bluevue is offline
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All that Glass on the Houston Stadium is fine...their climate and industry can handle it. Can you imagine what that would like like in a week in the east end with the industrial fallout...the glass would be black! We would need a major expense allocation each year to clean it once a week!
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  #3625  
Old Posted May 27, 2012, 1:27 AM
markbarbera markbarbera is offline
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Originally Posted by Berklon View Post
Any way you slice it, the current location is terrible from a number of different angles.

Hope it and our inclusion in the Pan-am games falls through. Big waste of money.
Don't misunderstand me, I am not saying the stadium is a bad thing. In fact, I think it is a vey good thing. It is a required utility for any city of our size, and our current stadium was in dire need of a major makeover or replacement.

As far as location goes, lets just say that this the best available option that all the parties involved could agree upon. The location debate is ancient history, time to move on in that regard.

Our involvement in Pan Am allows us to get a modern, state of the art replacement facility at the fraction of the cost the city would have had to pay if it had to replace it entirely on its own. As an added bonus, we get to host 48 games of top-calibre soccer.
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  #3626  
Old Posted May 27, 2012, 1:45 AM
markbarbera markbarbera is offline
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Originally Posted by bluevue View Post
All that Glass on the Houston Stadium is fine...their climate and industry can handle it. Can you imagine what that would like like in a week in the east end with the industrial fallout...the glass would be black! We would need a major expense allocation each year to clean it once a week!
Never mind the east end, have you noticed the sad state of the glass on the CIBC building downtown? I don't know about weekly cleanings, but regular cleaning of glass-clad structures is required in any city with heavy industry.

IMO glass should not be a primary structural feature on a stadium anyway. The bones need to look bold and solid - polished steel frame similar to the aluminum wrap being clad on London's Olympic stadium. Now that is impressive.
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  #3627  
Old Posted May 27, 2012, 3:53 AM
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My apologies to Ward 3 residents but showcasing our city from IWS makes me a little uneasy.

I love the idea of hosting a big event and showing the world everything Hamilton has to offer. Holding all the football matches at the new stadium, however, doesn't accomplish that goal and will reinforce people's preconceived notions of this city.

Pan Am FAIL. City of Hamilton FAIL. Taxpayer FAIL. Ti-Cats FAIL. I'll end it there...
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  #3628  
Old Posted May 27, 2012, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce View Post
My apologies to Ward 3 residents but showcasing our city from IWS makes me a little uneasy.

I love the idea of hosting a big event and showing the world everything Hamilton has to offer. Holding all the football matches at the new stadium, however, doesn't accomplish that goal and will reinforce people's preconceived notions of this city.

Pan Am FAIL. City of Hamilton FAIL. Taxpayer FAIL. Ti-Cats FAIL. I'll end it there...
Couldn't have said it better!
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  #3629  
Old Posted May 28, 2012, 3:33 AM
bigguy1231 bigguy1231 is offline
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Originally Posted by realcity View Post
I can't wait until it shocks all the Stuart Street supporters, $150 mil will build an awesome stadium. Even the biggest haters and non-football fans will have to force themselves to go to at least one game to experience it.

Stuart Street would've been held up with the OMB for a decade. Look at the Setting Sail Plan as an example.
For $150 million with only 22,000 seats it better be an awesome stadium, but that still doesn't negate the fact it's in the worst possible location.
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  #3630  
Old Posted May 29, 2012, 1:51 AM
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What?

Maybe I'm missing something. My wife and me love the location of IWS and both of us aren't from Hamilton originally. We park around Gage Park for the Cat games and picnic at the park looking at the escarpment, wonderful. Or park at Centre Mall before games and eat on Ottawa St. And take in some antique shops, or go for a walk first at Conf Park and easily drive along Burlington St., park around Centre Mall. Total win all the way plus love the fact the Future Fund money is going to a part of Hamilton for city building. Doesn't get much better in our opinion. Unfortunately not enough Hamiltonians appreciate their own city and what a great site IWS is and the opportunity of rebuilding there. We also love what Gary and Barbara have done with the Pearl Co., not trendy like James St. N or Locke but again we love going to concerts there.

As I say, maybe we haven't got the fail message and I hope we never do.
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  #3631  
Old Posted May 29, 2012, 3:48 AM
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I appreciate your feelings. I truly do.

There are numerous wonderful things about Ward 3, some of which you mentioned. However, I'm not happy that the city will be showcased to the world from an area adjacent to Barton St overlooking our heavy industry. I'm not ashamed of either of those things [though perhaps I should be] but it's not what I would choose.

To be honest, I'd prefer IWS were left alone, or perhaps renovated in some small way. $150.000.000 is a lot of money and in no way shape or form is it a good investment. It's a great stadium in its own right. Many cite it as the best place to watch football and it's hard to disagree when sitting in the bleachers on a warm summer evening.

This new stadium is a disaster no matter how you spin it and unfortunately Ward 3 is getting undeserved flak and for that I'm sorry. Surely there are better uses for our Future Fund money. I can't see how it will benefit the area.
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  #3632  
Old Posted May 29, 2012, 8:53 AM
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That's fine

I disagree with your assessment.and outlook, I think it's a wonderful investment for our city but to each his own. I'm sure the television cameras can show our beautiful waterfalls, trails and parks etc in publicity shots, as TSN does now for Cat games on national television.
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  #3633  
Old Posted May 29, 2012, 11:49 AM
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Obviously a lot of the people in the GHA feel the IWS location is a huge fail and are voting with their feet, what with season ticket sales up by 3000 over last year...

For those who want to contribute positively to the development of the IWS precinct, Councillor Morelli is hosting an open house to gather ideas on what the precinct should look like when the new stadium has been built. The open house is tonight at 7pm at Prince of Wales School.
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  #3634  
Old Posted May 29, 2012, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce View Post
I appreciate your feelings. I truly do.

There are numerous wonderful things about Ward 3, some of which you mentioned. However, I'm not happy that the city will be showcased to the world from an area adjacent to Barton St overlooking our heavy industry. I'm not ashamed of either of those things [though perhaps I should be] but it's not what I would choose.

To be honest, I'd prefer IWS were left alone, or perhaps renovated in some small way. $150.000.000 is a lot of money and in no way shape or form is it a good investment. It's a great stadium in its own right. Many cite it as the best place to watch football and it's hard to disagree when sitting in the bleachers on a warm summer evening.

This new stadium is a disaster no matter how you spin it and unfortunately Ward 3 is getting undeserved flak and for that I'm sorry. Surely there are better uses for our Future Fund money. I can't see how it will benefit the area.
- Nobody in the "world" will care about the stadium or where it is located. Very few people outside of Canada will ever take any notice.
- Ivor Wynne cannot hold on forever. Its state is probably a poorer reflection on the city than is its location.
- $150 million is a lot of money, but not for a professional football stadium.
- I still wish they would build the new stadium with more than 22,000 - 23,000 seats.
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  #3635  
Old Posted May 29, 2012, 12:21 PM
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I think the stadium will be great. Downtown location that otherwise would be a brownfield. The only way to see it as a fail is if you're opposed to a stadium full stop - and that's a valid point. But that was never an arguable point. How many of the WH supporters really wanted to see football games? We were always going to have a stadium. So what should have been a debate about whether or not to waste public funds on football got Braleyized into an urban renewal argument between WH and EM - two straw men. And in the end we were back where we started and knew the place for the first time.
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  #3636  
Old Posted May 29, 2012, 1:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BCTed View Post
- $150 million is a lot of money, but not for a professional football stadium.
^Agreed but come on...$150M stadium for a team that doesn't even make any money? It's ludicrous and nearly impossible to rationalise.
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  #3637  
Old Posted May 29, 2012, 1:54 PM
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Well then pete, are you calling Fred Eisenberger an irrational man? Why would he have gone after the Pan Am Games and a stadium in the first place then if all of this was or is simply irrational as you seem to imply?
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  #3638  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 2:18 AM
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I'm a Fred fan - there's no doubt about it - but let's leave him out of it.

This isn't really about the Pan Am Games anymore: it's about the 'Kitty-Cats' threatening the City in return for a tax-payer funded stadium in the exact same location - that apparently didn't work before but now it's ok - with far fewer seats, minus Brian Timmis stadium.

Is that something you're comfortable with? Let's be honest now.
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  #3639  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 5:53 AM
bigguy1231 bigguy1231 is offline
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Originally Posted by markbarbera View Post
Obviously a lot of the people in the GHA feel the IWS location is a huge fail and are voting with their feet, what with season ticket sales up by 3000 over last year...

For those who want to contribute positively to the development of the IWS precinct, Councillor Morelli is hosting an open house to gather ideas on what the precinct should look like when the new stadium has been built. The open house is tonight at 7pm at Prince of Wales School.
The cats can claim whatever they want. We will see once the games begin.

As for the stadium precinct, it's a joke. There will be nothing developed because the only way anything will happen is if the city finances it and we all know that will not happen with so many other priorities in this city. Councilors don't have the stomach to spent another dime on the Pan Am debacle.
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  #3640  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 12:12 PM
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Hey Pete, I'm not leaving Fred out of it. If the "Kitty-Cats" are so unimportant as you seem to imply, I'm sure a smart man like Fred Eisenberger wouldn't have cared less about a new stadium in Hamilton or any "threats" from them to leave. Men like FE don't fail often, look at the position he is in now as head of the Canadian Urban Institute I belive it is.

The stadium is a wonderful opportunity for Hamilton and I love it that it will be smaller and more intimate. Look at the ACC with the Leafs, they could have built an arena that holds about 21,000 like Montreal or actually 25,000 or more but they went smaller, a bit more demand for tickets, a bit cozier feel. Right now Hamilton doesn't even have a sports facility as nice as the London Knights, an amateur team in the OHL where you have 37 corporate suites sold out for every game and each game sold out or close to at 9000. What does Copps have, like 6 suites or something? And IWS right now with wooden bench seats with splinters and magic markers, shown on national television where CFL games often outdraw even "major league" teams like the Raptors, really needs an entire makeover as it's doing.

Again, I'll repeat my wife and myself, not from Hamilton originally, have fallen in love with the area around IWS, a real "feel" to the area, love Gage Park before games, Ottawa St. N, going to Pearl Co. events a bit more west of the area etc where apparently it's all crack users although the 10 or so times we've been there, at night most of the time, we've never felt threatened at all going back to our cars. No more so that some of the burbs we've been in any city.

Those that think this is a huge 'fail', however that is defined, well, that is their right. I think it's more than a huge 'win', it's a fantastic win-win all the way and I love that the Future Fund money is going to a part of inner city Hamilton. I'm very excited and those that wish to harp the 'fail' song can keep doing so, I won't be joining you in the least.
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