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  #61  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2010, 5:33 PM
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Calgarian Calgarian is offline
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Toronto has a pretty damn nice Skyline, I think it beats anything down under (Singapore too). We need some pictures of it.

my list would be

1. NYC
2. Hong Kong
3. Shanghai
4. Chicago
5. Toronto.
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  #62  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2010, 5:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avanine-Commuter View Post
So a response in sarcasm = Phil was right.
Oh, is that how it works? Gimme a break.

I simply prefer NYC's and Chicago's skylines over any other major city's in the world. As wrabbit said above, "NYC & Chicago have encyclopedic skylines that cover pretty much the entire chronological gamut of the skyscraper form" and as stratosphere said, "The saying "Often immitated, never duplicated" is right for NYC and Chicago. These two have it all: beauty, density, mass, height, elongation, architectural diversity that spans through the history of skyscrapers, and so many architectural gems found no where on earth." These opinions represent what I happen to think defines what are the world's top skylines. Hong Kong has a great skyline, but truly lacks some of these characteristics... also, it does not have the physical breadth that NYC and Chicago both have, due to HK being hemmed in by mountains, which offers a very dramatic and beautiful backdrop, but limits breadth. NYC and Chicago defined the skyscraper and skyline form long ago and I still think they do it the best. Will I be able to say the same in two, three, four decades from now? Maybe not. But for now, I think that the others are still behind and NYC and Chicago are simply just more pleasing to me.

We're talking about opinion here. It's my opinion... no more, no less. Does that make me a biased American chauvinist (as Phil feels so certain of) because I personally happen to find NYC's and Chicago's skylines more impressive overall than Hong Kong's for the above mentioned reasons? Please, save it for someone with less brain power. Am I biased in my thinking that NYC and Chicago still remain the paradigm and others are still catching up? Maybe so, maybe not. Who cares? Either way, it's a matter of personal taste. If you don't like it because it flies in the face of your personal opinion, then too bad. People on here who cannot understand that need to grow a sack and accept it, without invoking something like "You only think that way because you're American". How f-ing presumptuous is that?! Employing that BS is the exact same type of stereotypical generalization that others often accuse of Americans of displaying.

Last edited by pj3000; Mar 22, 2010 at 6:06 PM.
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  #63  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 12:14 AM
Avanine-Commuter Avanine-Commuter is offline
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Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
Oh, is that how it works? Gimme a break.

I simply prefer NYC's and Chicago's skylines over any other major city's in the world. As wrabbit said above, "NYC & Chicago have encyclopedic skylines that cover pretty much the entire chronological gamut of the skyscraper form" and as stratosphere said, "The saying "Often immitated, never duplicated" is right for NYC and Chicago. These two have it all: beauty, density, mass, height, elongation, architectural diversity that spans through the history of skyscrapers, and so many architectural gems found no where on earth." These opinions represent what I happen to think defines what are the world's top skylines. Hong Kong has a great skyline, but truly lacks some of these characteristics... also, it does not have the physical breadth that NYC and Chicago both have, due to HK being hemmed in by mountains, which offers a very dramatic and beautiful backdrop, but limits breadth. NYC and Chicago defined the skyscraper and skyline form long ago and I still think they do it the best. Will I be able to say the same in two, three, four decades from now? Maybe not. But for now, I think that the others are still behind and NYC and Chicago are simply just more pleasing to me.

We're talking about opinion here. It's my opinion... no more, no less. Does that make me a biased American chauvinist (as Phil feels so certain of) because I personally happen to find NYC's and Chicago's skylines more impressive overall than Hong Kong's for the above mentioned reasons? Please, save it for someone with less brain power. Am I biased in my thinking that NYC and Chicago still remain the paradigm and others are still catching up? Maybe so, maybe not. Who cares? Either way, it's a matter of personal taste. If you don't like it because it flies in the face of your personal opinion, then too bad. People on here who cannot understand that need to grow a sack and accept it, without invoking something like "You only think that way because you're American". How f-ing presumptuous is that?! Employing that BS is the exact same type of stereotypical generalization that others often accuse of Americans of displaying.
The reason why Phil got on your case is because your first post is unclear. You basically said NOTHING is comparable to NY+Chicago, and you did not state ANY evidence about individual skyscraper quality being the reason behind your love for their skylines; the reasons for NY+Chicago being better than HK's were not stated... Phil mentioned "but if that's the reason he disregarded HK's skyline, he never said that."
Here is what you said:

"It has the greatest concentrated massive skyline, bar none. Chicago does it second best." Emphasis: "greatest concentrated massive" skyline= size. So Mass, density, elongation, height are covered.

Where is the mentioning of "beauty,...,architectural diversity that spans through the history of skyscrapers, and so many architectural gems found no where on earth."? This was stated by Wrabbit AFTER your post, which had nothing on the quality of the skyscrapers but rather claiming the skylines to be #1 based on SIZE.

"Hong Kong's a great view from above, but is basically just a sea of the same residential highrises crammed together and punctuated by a handful of standouts. Never really been all that impressed with Hong Kong's skyline. Shanghai is just an ugly, scattered mess... it's main core has some height, but pales in comparison to others' concentration."

Your opinion. OK.

"To reiterate, NYC #1, Chicago #2. All others continue to copy, yet still can't seem to quite get it right and remain poor substitutes at best."

Your opinion. OK.

If you look at my first post that I quoted you on, I was clearly not offended by your choice of NY+Chicago over HK. I stated my opinion afterward, and I rebutted some of your arguments about the skylines. Nothing to do with being angry at dissenting opinions.

I can understand why he would think you were being America-centric and chauvinist. When I read your first post, I was slightly taken back by how hostile you sounded; the tone of your post was extremely harsh and pretentious... "bar none", "doesn't really matter", "all others are poor substitutes at best". Way to condemn HK, and without a strong argument to boot! Maybe you should rethink the way you share your opinions?
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  #64  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 1:12 AM
nergie nergie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avanine-Commuter View Post
The reason why Phil got on your case is because your first post is unclear. You basically said NOTHING is comparable to NY+Chicago, and you did not state ANY evidence about individual skyscraper quality being the reason behind your love for their skylines; the reasons for NY+Chicago being better than HK's were not stated... Phil mentioned "but if that's the reason he disregarded HK's skyline, he never said that."
Here is what you said:

"It has the greatest concentrated massive skyline, bar none. Chicago does it second best." Emphasis: "greatest concentrated massive" skyline= size. So Mass, density, elongation, height are covered.

Where is the mentioning of "beauty,...,architectural diversity that spans through the history of skyscrapers, and so many architectural gems found no where on earth."? This was stated by Wrabbit AFTER your post, which had nothing on the quality of the skyscrapers but rather claiming the skylines to be #1 based on SIZE.

"Hong Kong's a great view from above, but is basically just a sea of the same residential highrises crammed together and punctuated by a handful of standouts. Never really been all that impressed with Hong Kong's skyline. Shanghai is just an ugly, scattered mess... it's main core has some height, but pales in comparison to others' concentration."

Your opinion. OK.

"To reiterate, NYC #1, Chicago #2. All others continue to copy, yet still can't seem to quite get it right and remain poor substitutes at best."

Your opinion. OK.

If you look at my first post that I quoted you on, I was clearly not offended by your choice of NY+Chicago over HK. I stated my opinion afterward, and I rebutted some of your arguments about the skylines. Nothing to do with being angry at dissenting opinions.

I can understand why he would think you were being America-centric and chauvinist. When I read your first post, I was slightly taken back by how hostile you sounded; the tone of your post was extremely harsh and pretentious... "bar none", "doesn't really matter", "all others are poor substitutes at best". Way to condemn HK, and without a strong argument to boot! Maybe you should rethink the way you share your opinions?


This is another stupid arguement, as an American I am damn proud of NYC and Chicago. They set the bar for skylines, now depending on your opinion this may no longer be the case. I have been fortunate to see many Skylines in person and my ranking is as follows:

Chicago
HK
NYC
Singapore/Toronto/Sydney/Melbourne
Dubai


But they are all very cool, Shanghi is growing on me as is Guangzhou. But there is something still incomplete about China. I travel off the beaten track and its like I am in the sticks. I am sure it will change.

Bottomline, my opinion is most likely different that yours, but hey that dosen't make it any better or worst than your opinion. As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I am just glad I have been able to see all these places in person. To see the sunset from the Harbour Bridge, or Vancouver from Grouse Mtn at sunrise make it worth the long flights and time away from home.

Cheers!
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  #65  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 1:14 AM
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Why are people grouping NY and Chicago skylines together? They're really very different.

The only similarities are that they're in the same country, and have lots of buildings from all eras (though NY has lots more prominent historic stuff).

The Asian skylines aren't really similar either. To me, Hong Kong looks much different than Shanghai. The only real similarity is tons of recent stuff, especially commieblocks (though totally different styles of commieblocks).
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  #66  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 1:21 AM
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I think you can't really say which skyline is greater till you actually visit and see them all with your eye's, and how can you actually say which is the best?In my opinion there is no best because each one is the best in it's own way.

BUT since i live in NYC i give it to my city, but wait till new projects will be build skyline will be changed for ever
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  #67  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 2:07 AM
Avanine-Commuter Avanine-Commuter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nergie View Post
This is another stupid arguement, as an American I am damn proud of NYC and Chicago. They set the bar for skylines, now depending on your opinion this may no longer be the case. I have been fortunate to see many Skylines in person and my ranking is as follows:

Chicago
HK
NYC
Singapore/Toronto/Sydney/Melbourne
Dubai


But they are all very cool, Shanghi is growing on me as is Guangzhou. But there is something still incomplete about China. I travel off the beaten track and its like I am in the sticks. I am sure it will change.

Bottomline, my opinion is most likely different that yours, but hey that dosen't make it any better or worst than your opinion. As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I am just glad I have been able to see all these places in person. To see the sunset from the Harbour Bridge, or Vancouver from Grouse Mtn at sunrise make it worth the long flights and time away from home.

Cheers!
I don't see what's stupid about my argument. I am American as well and I am proud of NYC and Chicago too; I'm not ATTACKING them. Did you see my top 5?

1. HK
2. Chicago
3. NY
4. Shanghai
5. Sydney

My argument isn't stupid- it made complete sense. PJ's opinion is fine had he presented it effectively. If you are going to make a controversial statement (he claimed NY + Chicago = the only two skylines that mattered in the WORLD...) then at least back it up with good evidence/reasoning of why you hold that opinion. He didn't. He basically dissed all the other cities and just said, "Yeah, it's my opinion that NY+Chicago is all that matters". Hostile? Yes. I got the same feeling from his post as Phil did.

That said, I still love NY and Chicago's skylines. See my list? #2 and #3. No one is saying they are bad, but I at least stated my reasons for why I liked HK better whereas PJ's "reasons" were posted by Wrabbit after the fact.
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  #68  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 2:56 AM
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#1 Chicago - for the best combination of architecture, height, and planning
#2 Hong Kong - for its great layout, color, and distinct modernity
#3 New York - a massive skyline with Chicago's diversity, but lacking the aesthetic balance of Chicago or Hong Kong
#4 Shanghai - for its epic size, but higher quality than Tokyo
#5 Tokyo - for its sheer, epic size
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  #69  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 4:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avanine-Commuter View Post
The reason why Phil got on your case is because your first post is unclear. You basically said NOTHING is comparable to NY+Chicago, and you did not state ANY evidence about individual skyscraper quality being the reason behind your love for their skylines; the reasons for NY+Chicago being better than HK's were not stated...

Where is the mentioning of "beauty,...,architectural diversity that spans through the history of skyscrapers, and so many architectural gems found no where on earth."? This was stated by Wrabbit AFTER your post, which had nothing on the quality of the skyscrapers but rather claiming the skylines to be #1 based on SIZE.

If you look at my first post that I quoted you on, I was clearly not offended by your choice of NY+Chicago over HK. I stated my opinion afterward, and I rebutted some of your arguments about the skylines. Nothing to do with being angry at dissenting opinions.

I can understand why he would think you were being America-centric and chauvinist. When I read your first post, I was slightly taken back by how hostile you sounded; the tone of your post was extremely harsh and pretentious... "bar none", "doesn't really matter", "all others are poor substitutes at best". Way to condemn HK, and without a strong argument to boot! Maybe you should rethink the way you share your opinions?
Exactly, in my opinion, nothing IS comparable to NYC and Chicago. That's a completely clear statement. This is a stupid, entirely opinion-based thread topic which cannot be quantified in any way... no one has to justify their opinions with any "evidence". I only responded to your post initially since it somehow assumed that my sarcasm was proof for Phil being correct about my American "chauvinism". My last post was not aimed at you really anyway and I was aware of your original post.

I could not care less if this Phil McAvity character on skyscraperpage thinks I'm blinded by any such pro-America delusions. I was laughing at the suggestion and decided to respond sarcastically to his crap, just for fun. It's ridiculous that some on here get all worked up over what other people's favorite skylines are, regardless of the tone in which the message is delivered. If I feel that NYC and Chicago are far and away the top skylines, so what? Really now, if anyone would actually be offended because I said that "after NYC and Chicago, it doesn't matter who's next", NYC and Chicago "bar none", and "all other skylines are poor substitutes at best", then that is absolutely pitiful. It's an opinion and if it sounded harsh, pretentious, etc., sorry, but I've gone past the point of caring on this forum sometime in 2006 or so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avanine-Commuter View Post
PJ's opinion is fine had he presented it effectively. If you are going to make a controversial statement (he claimed NY + Chicago = the only two skylines that mattered in the WORLD...) then at least back it up with good evidence/reasoning of why you hold that opinion. He didn't. He basically dissed all the other cities and just said, "Yeah, it's my opinion that NY+Chicago is all that matters". Hostile? Yes. I got the same feeling from his post as Phil did.

That said, I still love NY and Chicago's skylines. See my list? #2 and #3. No one is saying they are bad, but I at least stated my reasons for why I liked HK better whereas PJ's "reasons" were posted by Wrabbit after the fact.
Like I said above, it's an opinion thread and evidence/reasoning really aren't required since the parameters for what someone likes can't be quantified in any way. I did give some reasoning for my opinion in my original post, and that's more than was necessary anyway. Stratosphere summed things up quite well for me when he seconded my opinion and said "often imitated, never duplicated" in referring to NYC and Chicago right after my post... and I didn't feel the need to say any more on the matter because... once again, it's an opinion thread... and an opinion that I posted 3 weeks ago, no less.
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  #70  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 5:36 AM
Avanine-Commuter Avanine-Commuter is offline
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So yes it is fine that you hold that opinion. In MY opinion, that is not true. Phil agrees. He gave his reasons on why it isn't true, and that your reasoning was faulty (the greatest concentrated massive skyline, bar none). Your "other" and true reasoning about architectural gamut and historical diversity wasn't stated when you made your first comment. If you're thinking all of this is irrelevant because "it's an opinion!", then let me explain how I view opinion threads:

We make opinion threads so we can hear what people in the community has to say about certain things. In this case, what others consider their favorite skylines.

However, it isn't a "post 5 cities and leave" topic. Is that really how you think opinions work?

If you have an opinion (and boy you have a controversial one) and you choose to share it, don't be surprised that people will ask you questions about your choices. Do you think that forums are just here for us to say "Oh nice list. Here's mine," without discussion, or "I like these," without explanations, or how about "Only these two count as skylines of value", without any response or discussion? Please, that would be a failure of a forum.

Why else would we care what others think? If there's disagreement between people's opinions, then it's a topic for discussion and that is where the forum gets interesting. Of course we ALL KNOW that opinions are like assholes and everyone has one. That doesn't mean we can't talk about the reasons behind an opinion.
Yes, opinions CAN be supported with reasoning. Sometimes that reasoning is faulty or biased. Sometimes that reasoning can clarify others misconceptions and help them understand better the concepts at hand. Sometimes it's educational to hear the reasons someone else prefers this over that.

If things worked your way, then everyone would just post a 1-5 list of their favorite skylines and that's that. Really now? I guess if you stopped caring about these forums then that wouldn't really surprise me. But considering that you're reply to me, I would say you still care just a *little* bit

Question that I have for you: how is it that BOTH New York and Chicago are "often imitated, never duplicated"? In what way are other cities imitating NY AND Chicago?
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  #71  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 1:00 PM
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^You're right, opinions are like assholes. Not only does everybody have one but they usually stink and pj3000 is living proof of that with his arrogant, self-righteous attitude. What's more, if he really doesn't care about this forum, like he claims, why does he keep posting here? If I didn't care about this place, I wouldn't come.

Avanine, your argument has been very articulate. I doubt I could have said it better myself.
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Last edited by Phil McAvity; Mar 23, 2010 at 1:11 PM.
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  #72  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 2:12 PM
MathewK MathewK is offline
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Originally Posted by darv0cet View Post
nice but i would put hong kong in front of new york, the view from victoria peak is amazing , and i think vancouver and toronto's skyline is better than calgary
I would also vote for hong Kong... but in fact never seen it in person Nevertheless, the photo suggest it's most impressive.
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  #73  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 3:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avanine-Commuter View Post
So yes it is fine that you hold that opinion. In MY opinion, that is not true. Phil agrees. He gave his reasons on why it isn't true, and that your reasoning was faulty (the greatest concentrated massive skyline, bar none). Your "other" and true reasoning about architectural gamut and historical diversity wasn't stated when you made your first comment. If you're thinking all of this is irrelevant because "it's an opinion!", then let me explain how I view opinion threads:

We make opinion threads so we can hear what people in the community has to say about certain things. In this case, what others consider their favorite skylines.

However, it isn't a "post 5 cities and leave" topic. Is that really how you think opinions work?

If you have an opinion (and boy you have a controversial one) and you choose to share it, don't be surprised that people will ask you questions about your choices. Do you think that forums are just here for us to say "Oh nice list. Here's mine," without discussion, or "I like these," without explanations, or how about "Only these two count as skylines of value", without any response or discussion? Please, that would be a failure of a forum.

Why else would we care what others think? If there's disagreement between people's opinions, then it's a topic for discussion and that is where the forum gets interesting. Of course we ALL KNOW that opinions are like assholes and everyone has one. That doesn't mean we can't talk about the reasons behind an opinion.
Yes, opinions CAN be supported with reasoning. Sometimes that reasoning is faulty or biased. Sometimes that reasoning can clarify others misconceptions and help them understand better the concepts at hand. Sometimes it's educational to hear the reasons someone else prefers this over that.

If things worked your way, then everyone would just post a 1-5 list of their favorite skylines and that's that. Really now? I guess if you stopped caring about these forums then that wouldn't really surprise me. But considering that you're reply to me, I would say you still care just a *little* bit

Question that I have for you: how is it that BOTH New York and Chicago are "often imitated, never duplicated"? In what way are other cities imitating NY AND Chicago?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil McAvity View Post
^You're right, opinions are like assholes. Not only does everybody have one but they usually stink and pj3000 is living proof of that with his arrogant, self-righteous attitude. What's more, if he really doesn't care about this forum, like he claims, why does he keep posting here? If I didn't care about this place, I wouldn't come.

Avanine, your argument has been very articulate. I doubt I could have said it better myself.
Avanine, you're missing my point. I'm not saying it should be a "post 5 cities and leave" topic". I've been on here long enough now to inderstand how it works.

Never said I didn't care about the forum. I said that I stopped caring about offending others on this forum with my opinion a while ago. Like I said before, if you don't like it, disagree with it, think it's hostile, self-righteous, etc., grow a sack and realize that that it's an opinion. Phil's post proclaiming his opinion that I must be some American chauvinist because I have such strong opinons about NYC and Chicago skylines is fine. It found it funny that someone gets so worked up over someone else's strong/controversial opinion about SKYLINES! So I thought I'd respond with as much ridiculousness about being some American jingo.

Why do you really care about someone else's opinion about a personal taste matter, regardless of how strongly or offensive you perceive the opinion to be? Again, I couldn't care less about your feelings regarding my opinion, but do care that people continually on this forum have to bitch and moan about what other people's opinions are. Both of you should grow a sack and move on. Why do you care what I think anyway? Why would Phil get so rankled by an opinion that he sees the need to call someone an American chauvinist, especially when we're talking about what skylines we like best? That is pitiful.
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  #74  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 3:33 PM
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Holy crap, enough already. Quit bickering and lets get back on topic.
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  #75  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 4:58 PM
GregBear24 GregBear24 is offline
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There's so much unnecessary nationalism in this thread. I'm born and raised chicago, and still live here. I like my hometown's skyline the best, but my opinion on "the best" shouldn't matter due to my obvious bias. I'll just say that here are my non-hometown favorites- IN NO SPECIFIC ORDER

NYC- duh, I know
Toronto- it's great and gets inadequate love in this forum
HK- I love that foreign countries saw America's skyward building and were inspired by it. Look at HK now; what a wonderful city and skyline it has! It's funny how people here have been arguing about everyone copying America. Wow, us chicagoans could say the same about everyone in our own country So, stop the ridiculous nationalism, please.

Seattle, Vancouver, Calgary- I can't pick one. They all look good to me.
Dubai and vegas don't count. They aren't real cities that built up out of necessity- they built up to attract tourists. Tell me, how much space is occupied in those dubai buildings nowadays? Empty structures don't count either.
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  #76  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 6:45 PM
nergie nergie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avanine-Commuter View Post
I don't see what's stupid about my argument. I am American as well and I am proud of NYC and Chicago too; I'm not ATTACKING them. Did you see my top 5?

1. HK
2. Chicago
3. NY
4. Shanghai
5. Sydney

My argument isn't stupid- it made complete sense. PJ's opinion is fine had he presented it effectively. If you are going to make a controversial statement (he claimed NY + Chicago = the only two skylines that mattered in the WORLD...) then at least back it up with good evidence/reasoning of why you hold that opinion. He didn't. He basically dissed all the other cities and just said, "Yeah, it's my opinion that NY+Chicago is all that matters". Hostile? Yes. I got the same feeling from his post as Phil did.

That said, I still love NY and Chicago's skylines. See my list? #2 and #3. No one is saying they are bad, but I at least stated my reasons for why I liked HK better whereas PJ's "reasons" were posted by Wrabbit after the fact.
Not attacking you, just the fact that people had to argue with you about your opinion. Sorry for misunderstanding. I felt that people mistook your original post.
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  #77  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 8:50 PM
new.slang new.slang is offline
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probably around half (maybe more?) of the people here say NYC and Chicago are somewhere in their top 3. In that case theres a 50% chance the top two will be American cities. Big effing deal. Its not like hes saying his top 5 are all american cities.
If someone said Shanghai and HK were their fav 2 would they be Chinese chauvinists?
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  #78  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 8:52 PM
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Moscow?
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  #79  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 9:34 PM
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hmmm for me its
1:New york-history,diveritsy,density,mass etc..just a beautiful mess of skyscrapers from every age of highrise architecture,a city where any kind of skyscraper can go anywhere,one of the few places where the sky is the limit when its comes to innovative skyscrapers...works for me

2:Hong Kong- a great blend between the natural world and the modern world from victoria harbour to the top of 2 ifc Hong kong does a great job at creating both balance and beauty in its skyline

3: Chicago- all the skyscrapers are in one place and still manage to create an extensive well balanced masterpiece,the skyline then is only complimented by lake michigan....simply amazing

4: Shanghai- Massive and though its financial district is what makes the skyline,between Jin Mao and SWFC and the future Shanghai Tower Shanghai easily has climbed to my 4th position

5: Dubai- nice big Burj Dubai and an amazing spike in skyline growth..wat more can i say

Last edited by SkyscrapersOfNewYork; Jul 21, 2010 at 5:36 AM.
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  #80  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2010, 9:50 PM
Avanine-Commuter Avanine-Commuter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
Avanine, you're missing my point. I'm not saying it should be a "post 5 cities and leave" topic". I've been on here long enough now to inderstand how it works.

Never said I didn't care about the forum. I said that I stopped caring about offending others on this forum with my opinion a while ago. Like I said before, if you don't like it, disagree with it, think it's hostile, self-righteous, etc., grow a sack and realize that that it's an opinion. Phil's post proclaiming his opinion that I must be some American chauvinist because I have such strong opinons about NYC and Chicago skylines is fine. It found it funny that someone gets so worked up over someone else's strong/controversial opinion about SKYLINES! So I thought I'd respond with as much ridiculousness about being some American jingo.

Why do you really care about someone else's opinion about a personal taste matter, regardless of how strongly or offensive you perceive the opinion to be? Again, I couldn't care less about your feelings regarding my opinion, but do care that people continually on this forum have to bitch and moan about what other people's opinions are. Both of you should grow a sack and move on. Why do you care what I think anyway? Why would Phil get so rankled by an opinion that he sees the need to call someone an American chauvinist, especially when we're talking about what skylines we like best? That is pitiful.
"Grow a sack", like that is supposed to mean something? PJ, if we don't like your opinion, we will share OUR opinion about yours. You don't like our opinion? Well by your way of thinking, "grow a sack and deal with it". Why are you now "bitching and moaning" about our opinions of your opinion? This can go on forever... do you see the futility of it all?

So let us just say that we agree to disagree. You obviously aren't willing to take opinions further than their most basic definition, which is sad.

BTW, we don't care what you think. We care WHY you think what you think. Get the difference?

to New.slang:
"Its not like hes saying his top 5 are all american cities." No, that's not what he was saying. He said that nothing BUT NY+Chicago's skylines matter. If someone said "nothing but Shanghai + HK's skylines matter", then it'll be the same deal. By looking at his first post (and his first post only), you CAN logically conclude that he was an American chauvinist.

here's how it makes him look like a chauvinist:
1. He claims that two American cities are the only ones that carry ANY significance (extremist view) AT ALL. Um, OK, so not necessarily chauvinist. But then he derides all other skylines, specifically targeting two of China's largest, NY/Chicago's main competitors in the skyline debates. Aided by his illogical explanation for why HK/Shanghai sucks vs. NY/Chicago, he looks like he chose them out of bias + blind American pride and not with any logically founded reasoning. He claimed "great massive concentration", as in SIZE, as the determining factor vs. other skylines. Which is false. Had he used Wrabbit's reasonings in his original post, I doubt Phil would have called him a chauvinist.

Plus, he has a hostile and stubborn tone throughout.

Sure PJ can say what he wants. No one is stopping him. If he doesn't care to offend others, the so be it. But it would be pitiful if everyone just ignored him when the point of the forum is for discussion.
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