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Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > SSP: Local Calgary > Calgary Issues, Business, Politics & the Economy

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  #41  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2010, 7:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Riise View Post
Isn't it a little far from the proposed line? It seems a little odd that the city would go so far out of their way to utilize this land, which I'm assuming would come at a cost as they would have to electrify the ROW and build a shed, when I'm sure it could be recycled by private interests. I don't find it clear why they would want to preserve the rail orientation of the land. However, I could be missing something.
While it does seem somewhat possible to me, its about 1.6km from where the LRT and CP/CN tracks diverge (right at the north edge of the Ogden community/north edge of the CP Ogden yard). Due to the distance any track to it would need to be double to accommodate trains going either way at the same time, plus probably a couple hundred million for the garage itself. and it would use only a fraction of the entire site, you could build a dozen plus buildings the same size as the entire Anderson garage end to end and still not even cover the entire Sarcee yard.

Heres a quick map:


(Note: yes, the yard does go a bit further east actually. Anderson garage, the full thing including bus area, is the same size roughly as the square building above the red line)
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  #42  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2010, 3:45 PM
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I see this move as being another strong step forward in solidifying Calgary as the prairie provinces hub for cargo and logistics. The proximity to YYC is a good thing.
I wonder how Winnipeg's Centreport Canada will affects Calgary's chances at becoming a distribution hub on the Prairies and central North America, or vice versa. Regina too is vying for this title with their Global Transportation Hub initiative.

Looks like there will be some good competition between all cities.
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  #43  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2010, 4:11 PM
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Originally Posted by RTD View Post
I wonder how Winnipeg's Centreport Canada will affects Calgary's chances at becoming a distribution hub on the Prairies and central North America, or vice versa. Regina too is vying for this title with their Global Transportation Hub initiative.

Looks like there will be some good competition between all cities.
I'm not too concerned by Winnipeg, the big companies are already putting their support behind Calgary.

UPS just finished with their new facility at the airport, Walmart and Loblaws continually expand their DC centres here. We have both CP and CN rail lines, and an airport that is more than capable or handling inter-continental cargo flights (and will be even more capable with the parallel runway). Plus our close proximity to the port of Vancouver verus the other two you mentioned.

Now I don't mean to sound overconfident, but the steps are already being taken to ensure we remain at the forefront of this.
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  #44  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2010, 4:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigtime View Post
I'm not too concerned by Winnipeg, the big companies are already putting their support behind Calgary.

UPS just finished with their new facility at the airport, Walmart and Loblaws continually expand their DC centres here. We have both CP and CN rail lines, and an airport that is more than capable or handling inter-continental cargo flights (and will be even more capable with the parallel runway). Plus our close proximity to the port of Vancouver verus the other two you mentioned.

Now I don't mean to sound overconfident, but the steps are already being taken to ensure we remain at the forefront of this.
Well, to be fair, the federal government has put it's money and confidence in Winnipeg with funding and verbal support for Centreport Canada, giving the area around the airport a form of international trading status, the first in Canada I believe. Several countries have signed shipping agreements with the Port of Churchill for distribution through Hudson Bay towards Europe since the Ice Sheet doesn't last as long due to Global Warming allowing for a longer shipping season. Winnipeg is also in a great geographical area, the centre of Canada's trading routes, to be poised for a central distribution designation throughout Canada, linking us to Kansas City, another major distribution hub for North America. Perhaps Calgary can serve for trade to Asia in conjunction with Vancouver, and Winnipeg will serve for trade to Europe in conjunction with Churchill. Everyone seems to believe they are at the "forefront of this" (as for Regina, I have no idea where they stand as they appear to be the weakest of all three cities) but perhaps all will benefit from these initiatives and become very successful shipping centers.
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  #45  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2010, 4:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigtime View Post
I'm not too concerned by Winnipeg, the big companies are already putting their support behind Calgary.

UPS just finished with their new facility at the airport, Walmart and Loblaws continually expand their DC centres here. We have both CP and CN rail lines, and an airport that is more than capable or handling inter-continental cargo flights (and will be even more capable with the parallel runway). Plus our close proximity to the port of Vancouver verus the other two you mentioned.

Now I don't mean to sound overconfident, but the steps are already being taken to ensure we remain at the forefront of this.
Not just WalMart and Loblaws. Canadian Tire and Costco as well, among others.
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  #46  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2010, 7:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mersar View Post
While it does seem somewhat possible to me, its about 1.6km from where the LRT and CP/CN tracks diverge (right at the north edge of the Ogden community/north edge of the CP Ogden yard). Due to the distance any track to it would need to be double to accommodate trains going either way at the same time, plus probably a couple hundred million for the garage itself. and it would use only a fraction of the entire site, you could build a dozen plus buildings the same size as the entire Anderson garage end to end and still not even cover the entire Sarcee yard.
Fraction of the Sarcee Yards site is all you would need to support operations and maintenance for the 203. Long term, though, for an expanded city-wide fleet supporting additional routes over and above the 203, Sarcee Yards allows the necessary room to centralise and to grow over thirty years.
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  #47  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2010, 8:06 PM
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Am I the only one that noticed that the train map mis-labelled two very important roadways in Calgary? (Deerfoot is labelled Blackfoot, Barlow as Deerfoot)
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  #48  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2010, 8:23 PM
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^^^ Good thing one of us was paying attention. Also, by what they've labelled Southland Drive, I think they mean Anderson Road.
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  #49  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2010, 8:25 PM
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Am I the only one that noticed that the train map mis-labelled two very important roadways in Calgary? (Deerfoot is labelled Blackfoot, Barlow as Deerfoot)
Very old road map being used there. Notice Deerfoot ends at Southland. In the past sections of Deerfoot were called Blackfoot, not sure about the other one but it wouldn't surprise me.
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  #50  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2010, 8:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Beltliner View Post
Fraction of the Sarcee Yards site is all you would need to support operations and maintenance for the 203. Long term, though, for an expanded city-wide fleet supporting additional routes over and above the 203, Sarcee Yards allows the necessary room to centralise and to grow over thirty years.
Isn't it more common to have localized depots rather than centralized facilities?
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  #51  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2010, 9:09 PM
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^^^ While I've certainly previously posited localised facilities, Sarcee Yards may be too good an opportunity in terms of area, existing infrastructure, current use, and relative proximity to current and potential transportation corridors for the city not to consider consolidating, if I might suggest as a case in point, Avanto LRV fleet operations and maintenance across multiple lines at the site.

Some system-wide economies of scale might be possible. If the space comes open, some strategic thinking couldn't hurt, right?
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  #52  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2010, 9:21 PM
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Very old road map being used there. Notice Deerfoot ends at Southland. In the past sections of Deerfoot were called Blackfoot, not sure about the other one but it wouldn't surprise me.
I was expecting more comments about a "VIA Calgary"
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  #53  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2010, 9:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Beltliner View Post
^^^ While I've certainly previously posited localised facilities, Sarcee Yards may be too good an opportunity in terms of area, existing infrastructure, current use, and relative proximity to current and potential transportation corridors for the city not to consider consolidating, if I might suggest as a case in point, Avanto LRV fleet operations and maintenance across multiple lines at the site.

Some system-wide economies of scale might be possible. If the space comes open, some strategic thinking couldn't hurt, right?
It also wouldn't be too bad a base for potential commuter rail service to be housed out of.
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  #54  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2010, 9:53 PM
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Well, to be fair, the federal government has put it's money and confidence in Winnipeg with funding and verbal support for Centreport Canada, giving the area around the airport a form of international trading status, the first in Canada I believe.
The Federal government doesn't have a great track record for backing winners.
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  #55  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2010, 10:06 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Winnipeg already in that position 30 years ago, losing alot of that business to Calgary in the 90's?

Centreport in conjunction with Churchill does offer alot of potential. I would expect it would be like you said, alot of the Europe trade through the St Lawrence, may go through Churchill instead.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RTD View Post
Well, to be fair, the federal government has put it's money and confidence in Winnipeg with funding and verbal support for Centreport Canada, giving the area around the airport a form of international trading status, the first in Canada I believe. Several countries have signed shipping agreements with the Port of Churchill for distribution through Hudson Bay towards Europe since the Ice Sheet doesn't last as long due to Global Warming allowing for a longer shipping season. Winnipeg is also in a great geographical area, the centre of Canada's trading routes, to be poised for a central distribution designation throughout Canada, linking us to Kansas City, another major distribution hub for North America. Perhaps Calgary can serve for trade to Asia in conjunction with Vancouver, and Winnipeg will serve for trade to Europe in conjunction with Churchill. Everyone seems to believe they are at the "forefront of this" (as for Regina, I have no idea where they stand as they appear to be the weakest of all three cities) but perhaps all will benefit from these initiatives and become very successful shipping centers.
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  #56  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2010, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Beltliner View Post
Some system-wide economies of scale might be possible. If the space comes open, some strategic thinking couldn't hurt, right?
Oh yeah, there is definitely an opportunity to save some money with economies of scale. However, I think having a depot on lines busy enough can be critical to the successful operation of the lines.


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Originally Posted by mersar View Post
It also wouldn't be too bad a base for potential commuter rail service to be housed out of.
I can see the potential but I could also see the operator of the line wanting one closer to the central station or the funding levels of government wanting to spread the wealth with the surrounding municipalities.


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The Federal government doesn't have a great track record for backing winners.
That comment was full of win!
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  #57  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2010, 7:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Policy Wonk View Post
I was expecting more comments about a "VIA Calgary"
cant see that ever happening, as cn and cpr have branch line tracks that connect edmonton to calgary. Since shutting down the drumheller and oyen subs cn has sunk millions into fixing the three hills sub. Currently it is about a 4 and half hour run to mirror, ab. and from there another 3-4 hours on the camrose sub. and from there it would take another 45 minutes from east edmonton getting through the gridlock to edmontons via terminal. Cp is about the same, so when all is said and done 10 hours to get to edmonton when all the track work is completed, who is gonna use via? you could get to edmonton and back three times driving by car.
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  #58  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2010, 4:00 PM
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Why would anyone even consider using CN trackage to get from Calgary to Edmonton for passenger travel? Ok, maybe VIA would, since they seem to have an unhealthy obsession with using CN no matter how much grief CN sends their way. A lot of the money that VIA got recently for capital spending is going into restoring sidings that CN took out or extending others. It's kind of amusing that in southern Ontario VIA service always improves once someone other CN owns the tracks - it doesn't matter who, be it VIA themselves, GO Transit or a shortline (or even CP on its residual tracks, notably Smiths Falls to Brockville) - all that matters is that CN not own it. Around Ottawa for example CN has abandoned pretty much everything so the track to Montreal is now owned by VIA, as is most of the track to Smiths Falls. CN, having (re)acquired Ottawa Central, now actually has to run at night from Ottawa to Montreal.

Anyway, how do you figure it would take 10 hours by way of the CP tracks? That's an average speed of something like 30 km/h.

At any rate, VIA is holding the property in downtown Calgary just in case. Similarly, they hold abandoned CP property in the Ottawa-area for a future HSR line to Montreal.
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  #59  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2010, 4:10 PM
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Just to clarify to the above two posts, when Policy Wonk mentions that he "expected more comments about a VIA Calgary," he was referring to the old map he posted including a marker reading "VIA Calgary." He wasn't necessarily proposing that VIA service return to Calgary.
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  #60  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2010, 7:58 PM
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I would definitely be the last person on earth to propose that!
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