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  #1  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2008, 4:45 AM
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Atlanta Community Discussion Thread

This of course is not an act of defiance against the closing of the discussion thread.

It is important that there is some venue for discussion of the issues that plague our city from economic issues to community progress that very much falls in line with the nature of this website. The Off-Topic Group was disbanded and redirected to the Discussion Thread and with the dismantling of the Discussion Thread, I am afraid that there is no place at all available for the general legitimate discussion of community issues.

For months, several different topics have been redirected from the main and now nearly completely off-topic construction list thread. I believe it is a matter of natural discourse for such civic minded people to have certain civil conversations about their city in the context of the skyscraper and general development of their city.

I understand the moderator's decision to end a petty, drawn out, and needlessly aggressive conversation. I hope that none of that will continue here and that for thousands of posts, we can again have a civil Atlanta Community Discussion Thread.
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  #2  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2008, 4:57 AM
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Note on the "SSP cities"

I have noticed that the only cities in this section of the forum with their own page are Los Angeles, San Francisco, Sacramento, Seattle, Portland, and Atlanta. Notably excluded are New York, Chicago, and the rest of the Sun Belt

In the context of this site at least, I think this signifies a cultural similarity between the posters of the aforementioned cities. Having never been to the west myself sadly, I am left with only my impressions of the western cities to contrast with Atlanta.

In my ignorance, I am left with the impression that the city of Atlanta is here exhibiting a far left mentality to the concept of city building and restoration at least within the context of community participation and debate.

That is my little comment on the climate here that lacked a real place to be mentioned and thus promoted me to create a new thread for general discussion. Go forth and discuss Atlanta.
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  #3  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2008, 7:37 AM
dabigstigGT dabigstigGT is offline
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Originally Posted by dante2308 View Post
Note on the "SSP cities"

I have noticed that the only cities in this section of the forum with their own page are Los Angeles, San Francisco, Sacramento, Seattle, Portland, and Atlanta. Notably excluded are New York, Chicago, and the rest of the Sun Belt

In the context of this site at least, I think this signifies a cultural similarity between the posters of the aforementioned cities. Having never been to the west myself sadly, I am left with only my impressions of the western cities to contrast with Atlanta.

In my ignorance, I am left with the impression that the city of Atlanta is here exhibiting a far left mentality to the concept of city building and restoration at least within the context of community participation and debate.

That is my little comment on the climate here that lacked a real place to be mentioned and thus promoted me to create a new thread for general discussion. Go forth and discuss Atlanta.

Hmm...interesting thought process. So you're basically saying that the typical poster on this board is liberal? I would have to agree for a few reasons- 1. The typical person living in a downtown area is liberal 2. The entire idea of a successful city is dependent on some liberal views- public transit, larger governments (in general more potential tax revenue=greater chance for larger government) and 3. I still think the typical internet user is little more left-leaning compared to the general public.

As for me, I am a staunch libertarian/states-rights who feels that local governments should have more control then federal governments. Oh and I think taxes should be used for 3 things (other than municipal necessities like police and fire): military, education, and public transit...But I also feel that the general public should have the right to do whatever the heck they wanna do. This probably makes me a HUGE minority on this board.
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  #4  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2008, 8:41 AM
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Maybe but not at GT. Personally I think the idea of libertarianism is over romanticized and somewhat ignores the role organization plays in the development of a society.

In several developing countries, regulation in non-existent and the people are for the greater part left to fend for themselves. The result is of course lower productivity, higher crime, corruption, corporate abuses of consumers and employees, and abject poverty. Not to mention the resultant social side effects which usually includes the rise of dictatorships under the guise of bringing order to chaos.

The reason that libertarianism is floated around as a prospect is because the United States is already a perfect consumer society where almost every level of wealth results in the same standard of living and amount of debt. So structured is the society here that one's life is pretty much predetermined at birth to become the most efficient producers of GDP. People who would not have otherwise succeeded are helped along by the system and in result become productive taxpayers, a net gain. In essence, we have already reached a near perfect system of production and consumption so it would seem like we have the leverage to change it.

The government's prerogative is the protection of the citizens. Because we are the world's largest economy and most expensive military power, it is in our nation interests to continue to outproduce other powers in order to maintain our position. If we do not, we risk reshaping the balance of global power out of our favor and in that we risk reaching a level weak enough that war can be declared against us.

Not to fearmonger, but the consequence of reducing the size of the government so that it no longer encourages maximum productivity is no less than the downfall of the western world.

If that is fine with you, consider this. In our American society, it is the mantra of the government that it is for and by the people. The result of this frame of mind has been and is the liberalization (as in liberty) of it's people from the throws of oppression. At a constant pace, the coalescence of social values (not socialist) between different groups of people has lead to tolerance and disdain for intolerance. The pace is slow, but as a direct result of non-isolationist/non-libertarian values, the country has become more open and free. If you goal is to be left alone in your ways, the surest path ironically is to embrace progressivism.

It seems I could go on forever talking about this and I can, but I will stop here.
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  #5  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2008, 2:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dante2308 View Post
Note on the "SSP cities"

I have noticed that the only cities in this section of the forum with their own page are Los Angeles, San Francisco, Sacramento, Seattle, Portland, and Atlanta. Notably excluded are New York, Chicago, and the rest of the Sun Belt

In the context of this site at least, I think this signifies a cultural similarity between the posters of the aforementioned cities. Having never been to the west myself sadly, I am left with only my impressions of the western cities to contrast with Atlanta.

In my ignorance, I am left with the impression that the city of Atlanta is here exhibiting a far left mentality to the concept of city building and restoration at least within the context of community participation and debate.

That is my little comment on the climate here that lacked a real place to be mentioned and thus promoted me to create a new thread for general discussion. Go forth and discuss Atlanta.
Thanks for starting this thread. I was planning all along to have a new General Discussion thread started after a little time had passed.

Addressing the city forums... They are relatively new and have all basically been started after a need has arisen. Atlanta, for example, brings an unproportionately large number of traffic to this forum in relation to the world or even North American population (Calgary, suprisingly, brings the most of any city). Atlanta threads were dominating the Southern forum, so this subforum was created. New York has it's own forum in P&C.
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  #6  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2008, 3:44 PM
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Does anybody else think that it's ludicrous to have to pay $3 to park at the Chattahoochee parks?

Especially in a country where you are trying to get people to walk and loose weight so health care costs go down. Sometimes I feel like I'm living in Hell. I sit in a cubicle all day and sit in traffic all day and then go home to a gated complex that I can't leave because its unsafe.. And then I have to pay to park to go on a walk.
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Old Posted Jun 5, 2008, 4:21 PM
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Dante - sorry, Atlantans - even liberal ones would mostly be considered moderate by west coast standards. I don't think the activity in this specific forum indicates any greater interest than other cities, if you consider that on places like Urban Planet or even SkyscraperCity - other cities have as much or greater involvement. Additionally, I think the level of activity here is primarily linked to the level of construction activity - not to the level of pro-urbanist views.

Another consideration, the traditional democrat oriented 'liberal' viewpoint is often in opposition to the pro-market high density project. Your tie-dye liberal (especially here in Boulder) absolutely loathes skyscrapers - viewing them as a symbol of capitalist greed.

Civilexpert - I don't at all think paying to use a public greenspace / park is ludicrous. It's the lack of budget funding that has led to the need for federal & state governments to look for additional revenue sources & unfortunately the only remaining option is user fees.
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Old Posted Jun 5, 2008, 4:45 PM
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Originally Posted by civilexpert View Post
Does anybody else think that it's ludicrous to have to pay $3 to park at the Chattahoochee parks?

Especially in a country where you are trying to get people to walk and loose weight so health care costs go down. Sometimes I feel like I'm living in Hell. I sit in a cubicle all day and sit in traffic all day and then go home to a gated complex that I can't leave because its unsafe.. And then I have to pay to park to go on a walk.
not ludicrous at all.

it's less than the cost of a happy meal.

it should probably be $5.
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  #9  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2008, 5:04 PM
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not ludicrous at all.

it's less than the cost of a happy meal.

it should probably be $5.
So you wouldn't mind paying $5 to park at Piedmont Park either?

Last time I was up in the Smoky mountains I didn't have to pay to park. Also down in Florida I never have to pay to park on a state parking lot for the beach.

Someone mentioned lack of budget funding.... I understand this since the state park owns the green space(I guess?).. but my problem is just that: the state owns it. If this were a real community-oriented city (instead of a cluster of counties and towns), these trails would be owned by the city Just like Piedmont park is, and that tiny amount of money needed to fund this park would be easily taken care of with what's already in the budget which is from taxes.

My purpose here was not to bash Atlanta, I love Atlanta. However, I have every right as a concerned citizen to point out things which I feel are ludicrous, especially things related to walkability (trails, parks, and sidewalks) which I feel strongly are being neglected everywhere in the metro area because of failed budget planning and a careless lazy attitude. And I'm not really talking about on the local level. In my personal opinion the state's presence in metro Atlanta has ripped this place into shreds. It all started with the building of the downtown connector which ripped apart the city.

P.S. I'm also against paying for parking in AS - The only mall in the SE where you have to pay for parking.
http://www.civiltips.com

Last edited by civilexpert; Jun 5, 2008 at 5:49 PM. Reason: removed remarks which may possibly start a fight
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Old Posted Jun 5, 2008, 7:42 PM
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Originally Posted by civilexpert View Post
P.S. I'm also against paying for parking in AS - The only mall in the SE where you have to pay for parking.
Not necessarily. Parking is free at Target, Ikea, and in the main deck for less than two hours. Plus, it's not free to maintain that whole deck anyway.
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Old Posted Jun 5, 2008, 8:53 PM
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civilexpert - the Chattahoochee Park system is federal, not up to the city, metro, or state but the Federal Government. Though not part of the national park system - they all charge to visit now, why I buy a $70 park pass in order to visit them. Otherwise, the state also charges fees to visit all state parks, again it isn't up to the city or county wherever the state park is located.
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Old Posted Jun 5, 2008, 9:18 PM
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What message do we send?

Here's something interesting from one of my favorite essayists: eavesdropping around various cities he tries to pick up the "message" that a city sends. Obviously this changes over time.... last year I would have said Atlanta's message was something about milking money out of your house But I'm having trouble coming up with something more general: maybe ambition to build companies or something related to real estate or popular culture.

Paul Graham: Cities

He has a bunch of essays on that site that are worth reading
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  #13  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2008, 9:36 PM
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Here's something interesting from one of my favorite essayists: eavesdropping around various cities he tries to pick up the "message" that a city sends. Obviously this changes over time.... last year I would have said Atlanta's message was something about milking money out of your house But I'm having trouble coming up with something more general: maybe ambition to build companies or something related to real estate or popular culture.

Paul Graham: Cities

He has a bunch of essays on that site that are worth reading
I'd say Atlanta is where you go to be gay!
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  #14  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2008, 10:02 PM
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I'd say Atlanta is where you go to be gay!
Actually, that factored into my thoughts. The significant gay population here changes the dynamic of the town. The weird thing is that the gays here are somehow really conservative. (The run of the mill ones, not the Queer as Folk ones)

Quote:
Dante - sorry, Atlantans - even liberal ones would mostly be considered moderate by west coast standards. I don't think the activity in this specific forum indicates any greater interest than other cities, if you consider that on places like Urban Planet or even SkyscraperCity - other cities have as much or greater involvement. Additionally, I think the level of activity here is primarily linked to the level of construction activity - not to the level of pro-urbanist views.

Another consideration, the traditional democrat oriented 'liberal' viewpoint is often in opposition to the pro-market high density project. Your tie-dye liberal (especially here in Boulder) absolutely loathes skyscrapers - viewing them as a symbol of capitalist greed.

Civilexpert - I don't at all think paying to use a public greenspace / park is ludicrous. It's the lack of budget funding that has led to the need for federal & state governments to look for additional revenue sources & unfortunately the only remaining option is user fees.
Good points all. I do think our city has become more liberal though. the construction excitement has made the population more civic minded.
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2008, 2:05 AM
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Originally Posted by civilexpert View Post
Does anybody else think that it's ludicrous to have to pay $3 to park at the Chattahoochee parks?

Especially in a country where you are trying to get people to walk and loose weight so health care costs go down. Sometimes I feel like I'm living in Hell. I sit in a cubicle all day and sit in traffic all day and then go home to a gated complex that I can't leave because its unsafe.. And then I have to pay to park to go on a walk.
Well, I'm glad that you are paying to park there (assuming you talking about the park at the end of Column Drive) and not like other people that park in my neighborhood .

Another thing that I noticed is that I see bunch of people who drive there with big gas guzzler that pollute so they can get some fresh air in the park. By the way, a lot of those cars have the "support Wildlife" tag. How ironic.
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2008, 2:11 AM
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Actually, that factored into my thoughts. The significant gay population here changes the dynamic of the town. The weird thing is that the gays here are somehow really conservative. (The run of the mill ones, not the Queer as Folk ones)



Good points all. I do think our city has become more liberal though. the construction excitement has made the population more civic minded.
I think the city has become more liberal because there are more yankees, west coast people moving here and not because the natives have become more liberal.
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2008, 5:16 AM
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I think the city has become more liberal because there are more yankees, west coast people moving here and not because the natives have become more liberal.
I can't generalize very well without the data, but the term Atlantan does refer to someone living in Atlanta. One would assume that the people born in Atlanta make up the smallest minority of the total population of the metropolitan area considering the rate of it's growth.

That said, natives I work and live with seem open to new ideas and cultures. My own roommate right now is pretty conservative but through just being around other people has become pro-gay rights and such when before he just wasn't.

Just four weeks until city population data!
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Last edited by dante2308; Jun 6, 2008 at 5:17 AM. Reason: Just four weeks until city population data!
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2008, 3:03 PM
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Yeah - I don't buy the Yankee theory, besides most Yankees move to the north metro anyways. The real reason is simply because Atlanta is a big city. Atlanta, just like any big regional city - attracts people from across the rural region, particularly misfits (like myself). The majority of the folks I miss the most from Cabbagetown, East Atlanta, Virginia Highlands, etc. were originally from small towns across the south & they are all liberal.

So - the same thing can be said about Denver, Chicago, Minneapolis, Seattle, etc. - all these cities are surrounded by relatively conservative areas & attract people from the country.
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Old Posted Jun 9, 2008, 3:17 PM
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MasterCard survey names Atlanta sixth-best U.S. commerce cente

Monday, June 9, 2008 - 10:21 AM EDT
Atlanta Business Chronicle
Atlanta has placed sixth in the United States and 25th globally in the "Top 75 cities in the MasterCard Worldwide Centers of Commerce Index," released Monday.

Atlanta was ranked in sixth in the United States and 20th globally in the 2007 index. In 2008, only New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Philadelphia and Boston were ahead of Atlanta.

MasterCard said its annual list evaluates and ranks major cities based on how they perform critical functions to connect markets and commerce. The index looks at cities' legal and political framework, economic stability, ease of doing business, financial flow, business center, knowledge creation and information flow and livability.

Atlanta placed fifth among U.S. cities in the knowledge creation and information flow index, which evaluates the number of higher education centers and programs, patent applications and concentration of media. It also came in fifth out of all U.S. cities in services that support business, such as travel options and accommodations. When it comes to ease of doing business, Atlanta garnered 17th place.

Atlanta was 10th in the United States in terms of livability, which evaluates factors related to quality of life, basic services and health and safety.
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Old Posted Jun 10, 2008, 5:48 PM
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Four blue jean bandit suspects arrested

Helicopter, dogs used to scour Ga. 400 area in Forsyth County

By MIKE MORRIS
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Published on: 06/10/08

A seven-hour manhunt for four suspects in a foiled burglary at a Dawson County clothing store ended early Tuesday afternoon when the remaining three men were spotted walking along Ga. 9 near Cumming, authorities said.

About 5:20 a.m., a private security guard at the North Georgia Premium Outlets in Dawsonville noticed a silver van backed up to the doors of the Saks Fifth Avenue Off 5th store, a store that had been hit a few weeks ago by smash-and-grab burglars who stole several thousand dollars worth of blue jeans, Dawson sheriff's Sgt. Tony Wooten said.

"The suspects in the van, we believe, observed the security guard and started leaving the outlet mall," Wooten said.

"When they met two Dawson County sheriff's deputies, a police chase ensued, which eventually led to Forsyth County," Wooten said. "The Forsyth County Sheriff's Office deployed stop sticks on Ga. 400 just before Pilgrim Mill Road and the suspects' van wrecked."

Stop sticks are strips with small spikes designed to puncture tires.

After crashing the van, which had been reported stolen earlier in the morning in Atlanta, the suspects ran on foot, sparking the manhunt by deputies on the ground and in the air, as well as k-9 units.

One suspect was taken into custody before 10 a.m., and the remaining three were arrested while walking together along Ga. 9, Wooten said.

A woman stopped by deputies near the outlet mall around the time the van was first spotted was uncooperative with authorities and was initially believed to be connected to the attempted burglary, but Wooten said she was not a part of the crew of would-be bandits. She will, however, face unrelated charges in Dawson County, he said.

Wooten said the suspects "did not make entry" into the Saks Fifth Avenue store before driving off. He said the store was the target of burglars about three weeks ago who also backed a van up to the front door before making off with blue jeans valued "in the twenties of thousands" of dollars.

Metro Atlanta has seen a number of similar burglaries of clothing stores by so-called Blue Jean Bandits over the past year. Some arrests have been made but authorities say different groups of bandits have carried out the crimes.
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