Different Sprawl Patterns in the U.S. Cities

[M II A II R II K]

Sprawl Repair: From Sprawl to Complete Communities


Read More: http://www.terrain.org/articles/28/tachieva.htm

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The Sprawl Repair Manual seeks to expand the literature as a guide that illustrates how to repair the full range of suburban conditions, demonstrating a step-by-step design process for the creation of more sustainable communities. This is a framework for designing the interventions, incorporating them into the regulatory system, and implementing them with permitting strategies and financial incentives. The proposed approach addresses a range of scales from the region down to the community, street, block, and building. The method identifies deficiencies in typical elements of sprawl, and determines the best remedial techniques for those deficiencies. Also included are recommendations for regulatory and economic incentives. Lessons learned from history guide this methodology. Rather than the instant and total overhaul of communities, as promoted so destructively in American cities half a century ago, this is a guide for incremental and opportunistic improvement.

- Sprawl remains cheaper to plan, easier to finance, faster to permit, and less complicated to build, primarily due to the regulations governing development. It is simpler to attach the freestanding, isolated, single-use components of sprawl to the already subsidized and prolific highway system than to assemble these elements into real neighborhoods and towns. Sprawl is extremely inflexible and will not mature into vibrant urbanism on its own. Without precise design and policy interventions, sprawl might change—a strip shopping center might be scrapped and replaced with a lifestyle center when the next owner comes along—but it is unlikely to produce walkable, sustainable urbanism.
In stark contrast to the pre-war suburbs, the second generation of suburbs was single-use, low-density development spurred by new incentives from the federal mortgage system and the increase in automotive infrastructure and use.

- The demand for complete communities is greater than the current supply. According to Todd Litman, founder of the Victoria Transport Policy Institute, in 2009 North American households were evenly divided in their preferences for sprawl or smart growth in the form of walkable, diverse neighborhoods. He predicts that by 2030, more than two-thirds will prefer smart growth.7 The Sprawl Repair Manual shows one way to meet the growing needs for walkable environments by repairing sprawl into complete communities.

- The primary tactic of sprawl repair is to insert needed elements—buildings, density, public space, additional connections—to complete and diversify the mono-cultural agglomerations of sprawl: residential subdivisions, strip shopping centers, office parks, suburban campuses, malls, and edge cities. By systematically modifying the reparable areas (turning subdivisions into walkable neighborhoods, shopping centers and malls into town centers) and leaving to devolution those that are irreparable (abandonment or conversion to park, agricultural, or natural land), sprawl can be reorganized into complete communities. To identify the proper targets for repair, it is essential to understand the form and structure of sprawl in the American built environment.

- The pre-war suburbs include patterns of growth that can be defined as suburban, but are not sprawl per se. In the U.S., the first suburbs sprang up in the 19th century along the newly built railroad lines, as compact, middle-class communities assembled around stations (examples include Lake Forest and Riverside in Illinois and Forest Hills in Queens, New York). These were modeled after the suburbs built in England in the 18th century to serve the London bourgeoisie, and inspired development outside of cities in other parts of the world.8 With the invention of the electric streetcar, another group emerged closer to the city and accessible to a more diverse economic and social population than the railroad suburbs.

- The second-generation suburbs began to develop in the 1920s, but flourished after the end of World War II, when, under the auspices of national defense, the federal government created the interstate highway system, the largest infrastructure project the country had ever seen. Ironically, the main achievements of this monumental effort were to facilitate personal mobility and undermine the fundamental walkability of American urbanism.

- The last generation, or third-ring suburbs, flourished from the 1980s through the early 2000s on the exurban edge. Until recently, these suburbs have been highly competitive and in good physical shape, due in part to potent owners’ associations that enforced special standards and bylaws to maintain quality within the developments. The developments are often gated, single-use housing pods or commercial agglomerations such as strip shopping centers, malls, corporate campuses, or entire edge cities, and all are reachable only by automobile. Repairing these suburbs will require a proactive, visionary approach that anticipates the potential economic decline and devaluation of developments. Urban planners, business owners, developers, and municipal governments must anticipate their failure and intercede.

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Left: First-generation suburbs: traditional growth patterns formed streetcar and railroad communities outside the city limits.
Right: Forest Hills, New York.






Left: Second-generation suburbs: conventional suburban development created car-dependent sprawl along new highways.
Right: Levittown, New York.






Left: Third-generation suburbs: the exurbs.
Right: Tyson's Corner, Virginia.






Left: Mashpee Commons, 1960: strip shopping center.
Right: Mashpee Commons, 2000s: transformed into a town center.






New street in Downtown Kendall.






Infill as repair of a corporate office park: Legacy Town Center, Plano, Texas.

[nec209]

I think we need to clear up the meaning of suburb and urban and understand how cities evolved be for we can understand sprawl.


Understanding the difference of what is suburb or urban.



But I thing before we can understand that we must first understand how cities evolved . Here is what I know and you can fill in the missing pieces.

Typical of cities beore 1900
-store front at street level
-people live above the store
-side-walk at the street
-foot traffic
-road 2 or 3 lanes and cars parking on the street in front of the store.
- grid system ( US only )

Typical of cities 1900 to 1940 .
-store front at street level
-people live above the store ( most places in the sun belt cities like Los Angeles built many one story storefront ) possible do to the Mexican architect.
-side-walk at the street
-foot traffic
-road 2 or 3 lanes and cars parking on the street in front of the store.
- grid system ( US only )

Typical of cities 1920 to 1940 .
-store front at street level
-people live above the store ( most places in the sun belt cities like Los Angeles built many one story storefront ) possible do to the Mexican architect.
- some cities tight parking at the back of the store or the side of the store ( small parking less than 30 cars) or use of parking garage.
-side-walk at the street
-foot traffic
-road 2 or 3 lanes and cars parking on the street in front of the store.
- grid system ( US only )

Typical of cities 1950 to now
-Parking lots
-Building in parking lot and pulled back from the street
-side-walk pulled back from the street or in some places no side-walk
-The use of malls and plazas than a storefront
- Lots of parking for cars
-lack of foot traffic
-anti grid system the use of crescent ,courts , dead end streets ,cul-de-sac, curvilinear streets, lots of loops and lollipops .
- Arterial road moderate or high-capacity road which is immediately below a highway level of service. Much like a biological artery, an arterial road carries large volumes of traffic between areas in urban centres. They are noted for their lack of residential entrances directly onto the road or any buildings on the road
-The use of subdivisions and is very big 1.6 KM or 2 KM and its bad for car traffic or foot traffic do to the use of crescent ,courts , dead end streets ,cul-de-sac, curvilinear streets, lots of loops and lollipops ..
-All cars have to go out of the subdivisions to the arterial road to get anywhere to the local store or pizza and so on
-industrial park or office parks
-big 3 or 4 lane arterial roads with boulevard in the center ( 3 or 4 lanes one way and 3 or 4 lanes other way )
- The driving speed on the arterial road is mucher higher do to lack of building on the road and lack of controlled intersections.
- plazas and malls built at intersections by the highway
-fence off subdivision and mandatory use of a fence on arterial road .

The mid 90's to now the use of box stores and power centers at intersections by the highway.



street hierarchy typical of cities 1950 to now
http://www.flickr.com/photos/6110057...n/photostream/

Typical of cities 1900 to 1940
http://www.flickr.com/photos/6109356...n/photostream/

[mhays]

Regarding the "1950 to now"....

The tide has turned back northward in many places in the past few decades, with in-town areas and many suburbs (at least their centers) returning to traditional zoning with mixed use, buildings up to the street, etc. Infill and densification are a big factor in many metros, even while it's a step outward (or more) for every step upward/inward.

[nec209]

Originally Posted by hudkina

This is what the vast majority of Metro Phoenix looks like:



Sure it may have a very high population density, but it's the most inefficient density possible... A power center surrounded by high-density single-family homes isn't sustainable when everyone still has to drive.

That is very typical of cities 1950 to now.

Toronto is like that too.


The thing is every thing is car centric now and there is no need for the planning like before unless people all start to walk to the store or work again.

[nec209]

Originally Posted by dweebo2220

Just for fun, I did it for L.A. (where I live, so I know how to get the census tract data). At 12,425 people per square mile, here's beautiful South Carthay (obviously all neighborhoods in LA don't look like this, but a lot do). It's comprised mostly of duplexes and triplexes, with a few larger apartments and some single family streets thrown in here and there.

Well LA has alot of apartments and duplexes and triplexes under 6 stories in the North east coast of the US and east coast in Canada and more so Toronto it was 15 to 20 story apartments !!! Not sure why.

Also in the North east coast of the US and east coast in Canada and more so Toronto people live above a store .

So the density is higher than say LA.

[M II A II R II K]

What to do with a cul-de-sac?


Read More: http://newurbanismblog.com/culdesac/...rbanism+Blog+-

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What to do? Well, in many of these types of repair projects, we have many limitations on what we can do. Often, our project is already entitled or zoned and the client does not wish to go back into that arena. Other times, much of the actual infrastructure is already in as is the case here. Our one solution was to begin to define the former bottom of the bag into a multi-use place. Cars use this place but also kids, bikes and humans in general. It becomes a place that social things happen in as well as a simply visually pleasing space.

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1. Make a place beautiful. Places that are not visually appealing are not valued as highly as other places. Here we add a squared up center green with a large oak tree planting (and other small details such as lighting etc.)

2. Define the place (space): A place must be defined or enclosed in some manner. Here we focus moving the building form and mass around to create walls for our new space. It’s the same number of houses, but they are moved around to create something of value.

3. Approach of the space: This is the one that most designers overlook. Every interesting space has some type of approach to it. Here we use a row of palmetto trees to create a tighter street section and rhythm that then opens up to the main space.

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As an alternate, we also looked at another version. This is a more involved approach as we moved the right of way a little and actually carved out a small block structure in the former cul-de-sac parcel. Our main goal here was to generate more value by fronting our homes on a more controlled common green vs. a less desirable suburban second tier arterial road.

We used the same basic principles as above but just modified the plan so that 8 of the 12 homes faced the value generating space vs. 4 in the other example. Since this is a real world project, our client and design team will now have to weigh out the extra value generated in sales of our approach vs. the extra design and engineering needed to convert to this scheme.

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[M II A II R II K]

Website tells Floridians 'the price of sprawl'


Read More: http://priceofsprawl.com/index.html

Most Floridians are unaware of the huge amount of housing already approved, but not yet built. It’s enough housing for over 100 million people — over 5 times more than Florida’s current population of around 19 million.

We selected 100 cities & counties to illustrate the costs to taxpayers of continuing unrestrained residential development. Schools & roads are the biggest financial costs to taxpayers. Drinking water supplies are inadequate for Florida’s projected growth.

While our costs go up, many parts of Florida won’t have enough drinking water, and our home values will continue to go down due to oversupply and vacancy rates — especially if politicians continue granting requests for even more new housing.

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[M II A II R II K]

‘Walkable’ Steps Into Spotlight


December 1, 2011

By MARCELLE S. FISCHLER

Read More: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/04/re...ight.html?_r=1

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The goal of more walkable communities, with village centers close to mass transit, is being pursued statewide by Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo, who in August signed “Complete Streets” legislation to make roads safer and more accessible to pedestrians, cyclists and wheelchair users. The legislation closely followed the policies already in place in five Island towns: Babylon, Brookhaven, North Hempstead, Islip and Southampton. At a mid-November workshop on the legislation, part of the 10th Annual Vision Long Island Smart Growth Summit, State Senator Charles J. Fuschillo Jr., the original sponsor of the Complete Streets bill, said that retrofitting suburbs with pedestrians rather than cars in mind was “a positive for any community” and “would certainly encourage” development.

- One resource cited by Eric Alexander, the executive director of Vision Long Island, was the Web site Walkscore.com, which ranks the country’s 50 largest cities for walkability, allowing the user to type in an address and find out which shops, restaurants and other destinations are within a one-mile radius. A score of zero classifies an area as “car dependent,” while a 100 indicates a “most walkable” location. In September the site added an apartment-search function based on walk scores, price, size and estimated commute times. The site supplements information already available on real estate Web sites like ziprealty.com and Zillow.com on accessibility of public transportation.

- CEOs for Cities, a planning network of urban leaders, concluded in a 2009 report that homes within a walkable mile of “common daily shopping and social destinations” command from $4,000 to $34,000 more than similar homes in more car-centric communities. Dorothy Herman, the president and chief executive of Prudential Douglas Elliman, said that while “we are not at the point we can live on Long Island without a car,” the pendulum is swinging away from malls and toward walkable village centers. Ms. Herman’s Southampton home is “so walkable” she rarely uses her car and doesn’t need to leave the village. At her Oyster Bay Cove home, however, “everything has to be driven to.”

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[M II A II R II K]

Building a Better 'Burb, With Envy


Dec 12, 2011

By Emily Badger

Read More: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/des...burb-envy/700/

Website: http://www.buildabetterburb.org/

Long Island was initially built out in the years following World War II, when it helped define for much of the rest of the country the idea of suburbia. As that idea has aged, though, the island has more recently struggled to hold the interest of young professionals not particularly enamored with mass-produced ranch houses and tidy but dull Cape Cods (or the job prospects and affordability issues that have grown up around them). “We are the original Levittown. So much of the island is just like that: it’s sprawl, sprawl, sprawl, sprawl,” says Ann Golob, director of the Long Island Index, which has been tracking the exodus. Today, the island has roughly 100 distinct towns, which Golob describes this way: “Some of them are beautiful little villages, some of them are really falling-apart little villages, and some of them are just a memory of like, ‘yeah, there used to be a village here.’”

- The group counted 8,300 acres of land on the island ripe for denser, mixed-use redevelopment, all within just half a mile of the village downtowns. Surface parking lots sit on 52 percent of that land, a prime opportunity to try something new. Residents weren’t quite getting what that new thing should be, though, so last week the Index launched a different strategy: buildabetterburb.org. The project dispenses with all the statistics and reports and maps and goes straight for the suburban eye candy: beautiful photos of actual communities across the country who are redefining a modern suburb where actual 20-somethings might want to live.

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Literally, she is talking about inspiring beautiful design – and better places – by making people jealous.






Or this alternative to the surface parking lot, from Charleston, South Carolina:






Parts of Long Island are just breathtakingly beautiful, being on the ocean, on the bay. People want that, and why shouldn’t they have that?” Their best shot at keeping it, she says, is to go denser near the downtowns. But who’s to say that can’t look like this?

[M II A II R II K]

Landscape Absurdism: Las Vegas


December 14th, 2011

By Mark Byrnes

Read More: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/des...las-vegas/711/

Las Vegas's built environment is full of absurdities. The city's development
patterns showcase a tension between the natural (desert) and the built (the planned
communities that litter the landscape).

They also serve as visual symbols of America's 2008 housing bubble. Anticipating rapid
growth, developments fail to connect to each other, confidently (or, perhaps thoughtlessly)
leaving the future to fill the spaces between.

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[hammersklavier]

This one doesn't look so bad to me. It looks rather similar to development patterns on the fringes of Southeast and East Asian cities. Plus the grid looks much tighter, which counteracts the cul-de-sacs' disconnectivity.

Unfortunately nearly every house faces a cul-de-sac rather than the ruling grid, which is one of the stupidest siting patterns available.

[M II A II R II K]

Has the sun set on suburban sprawl in California?


December 12, 2011

By Amanda Eaken

Read More: http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/ae...rawl_is_d.html

PDF Report: http://www.uli.org/ResearchAndPublic...a%20Dream.ashx

.....

By comparing 2010 supply of different housing types to 2035 projected demand in Calfiornia's four largest regions--Sacramento, the Bay Area, Southern California, which includes Los Angeles, and San Diego-- the report makes some stunning observations about the direction future growth should take to help the housing market recover. The two bottom line findings that every journalist, planner, economist, homebuilder, developer and financier should be aware of are as follows: First, the existing supply—that’s right, today’s stock—of conventional lot (> 1/8th acre) single-family detached homes exceeds the projected demand for these homes in 2035.

- California’s largest regions – Sacramento, the Bay Area, Southern California and San Diego--already have more large lot, single family homes than will be needed in 2035. Thus, expanding the supply of this housing type would be in excess of both current and projected demand, and could hurt the chances for a housing market recovery. So if people don’t want to live in these homes, where do they want to live? That leads me to the report’s second key finding. In short, the answer is, near transit.

- The projected 2035 demand for homes near transit is so strong that even if we put all new homes for the next 23 years near transit, we still won’t meet the demand. That is, 2035 demand for homes near transit exceeds today’s supply plus all of the increment of growth over the next 23 years. This report is mutually reinforcing a survey of Southern California voters NRDC conducted recently, which found overwhelming support for transit as well as for homes in walkable neighborhoods near jobs and amenities.

- So why does this report matter? In short—timeliness. Right now, under SB 375, California’s four largest regions are analyzing and adopting plans to shape their regions and accommodate growth through 2035 through the creation of their Sustainable Communities Strategies. In a fortunate convergence of market trends and policy goals, the report finds a “directional alignment between the real estate preferences expressed by consumers and the greenhouse gas reduction objectives expressed by the state of California in the form of Senate Bill 375.”

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[M II A II R II K]

Maryland governor signs land-use order


December 19, 2011

By Aaron C. Davis

Read More: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...R5O_story.html

Maryland Gov. Martin O’Malley (D) on Monday signed an executive order that is intended to curb sprawl and that could affect every facet of growth, from where schools are placed to which roads are built to whether rural landowners are permitted to develop their property. Over vehement objections from Republicans, farmers and some city and county governments, O’Malley invoked a 37-year-old law allowing his administration to draft a master plan for Maryland development.

To enforce the guidelines, O’Malley said his administration in coming years would leverage billions of dollars in annual state aid. Local governments that encourage dense development in existing towns and cities will be rewarded with continued funding while jurisdictions that do not limit development of farmland and open space may see their state aid reduced. For O’Malley, the executive order amounts to a win in a policy area where a long list of Maryland Democratic governors before him have come up short. But by excluding the General Assembly from holding hearings or voting on the plan, he has attracted criticism from both sides of the aisle.

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[M II A II R II K]

Fixing suburbs with green streets that accommodate everyone


December 20, 2011

By Kaid Benfield

Read More: http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/kb...ld%27s+Blog%29

We’ve made such a mess of the suburbs we constructed in the last fifty or so years that one wonders whether they can ever be made into something more sustainable. Strip malls, traffic jams, cookie-cutter subdivisions, diminished nature, almost no sense of outdoor community. We all know the drill: there are nice places to be in America’s recently built suburbs, but we have to know where they are and drive to them through a visual and environmental mess to get there.

One of the most challenging aspects of suburbs, and of the prescriptions for improving them, is the character of their roadways. Most of us take the poor design of our streets – the most visible part of most suburban communities, if you think about it – so much for granted that it never occurs to us that they actually could be made better for the community and for the environment. Consider, for example, main “arterial” streets so wide that pedestrians can’t cross them, even if there is a reason to; little if any greenery to absorb water, heat, or provide a calming influence; or residential streets with no sidewalks.

This is where Montgomery County, Maryland’s new streetscape initiative comes in. Just northwest of Washington with a boundary just a couple of miles from my DC home, Montgomery has had its ups and downs over the years accommodating and managing tremendous growth. But there is no question that it has done some things right, including the preservation of much of its farmland – in part by channeling growth into the central districts of Bethesda and Silver Spring, both served by DC’s Metro rail transit system, and more recently by encouraging walkable redevelopment along the notoriously sprawled-out Rockville Pike corridor.

As a result, Montgomery has actually been in the business of “retrofitting” or “repairing” the suburbs (very gradually, to be sure) since before planners began to call it that. Now, it has undertaken a pilot study on two stretches of roadway in the county to evaluate the use of green infrastructure – strategically placed vegetation and other methods that reduce polluted runoff by using or mimicking natural hydrology – along with measures to better accommodate pedestrians and bicyclists . One is an arterial road that goes through residential areas, the other a wide commercial street. Both showed there was much potential, and Montgomery is now planning to integrate more environmental features into its streets.

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[M II A II R II K]

Plan could alter housing density outside Loop


January 2, 2012

By ZAIN SHAUK

Read More: http://www.chron.com/news/houston-te...op-2437503.php

For the first time since 1999, city planners are pushing for changes to regulations that would pave the way for denser development, including townhomes and multi-family properties, through much of Houston. The proposed changes to the city's development code, known as Chapter 42, would be the first steps toward denser Houston development since a heated battle led to the creation of an inside-the-Loop "urban area" in 1999.

Now, officials want to extend that urban area and its accompanying density cap - allowing a maximum of 27 housing units per acre - from Loop 610 to Beltway 8. The change would come with a series of updates to the existing development code, including community safeguards to make it easier for residents to protect the character of their neighborhoods even as the ordinance would allow developers to subdivide lots for more construction, officials said.

Officials say developers are waiting to build properties that would meet demand for more housing at varying price levels but have hesitated without any density rules in place outside the Loop. "This city is growing and we are the envy of the nation," said Sue Lovell, who worked to develop the proposed ordinance changes before she finished her final City Council term last month. "But with that comes (the question of) how do we continue development, but at the same time protect the quality of life in our neighborhoods? Chapter 42 provides that."

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[vid]

One thing I just noticed about the US is that they build the road before they build the houses. In Canada, or at least Thunder Bay, the houses are built before the road is paved. In some cases, the road won't be paved until every single lot along it has been sold.

[M II A II R II K]

Rust Belt cities: to avoid more shrinkage, protect & strengthen the core


January 4, 2012

By Kaid Benfield

Read More: http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/kb...ld%27s+Blog%29

PDF Report: http://www.clevelandfed.org/research...11/2011-27.pdf

For some time, I have been on record as believing that the problem with former industrial cities that have lost population isn’t just the changing economy. It’s also a failure to address suburban sprawl. A close look at population data reveals that, while the populations within central cities’ jurisdictional boundaries have declined substantially, their suburbs have actually grown. The result is that, if one defines “city” as the contiguous urbanized area within a metro region, regardless of political boundaries – the definition that matters to the economy and the environment – the shrinkage may vanish or be shown as far less than we think. In short, “shrinking cities” have really been hollowing out more than shrinking. Any policy tools that fail to recognize this have little chance of improving the situation, in my opinion.

- A new study from the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland lends weight to the argument that a dense urban core is important to the overall strength of a metro region. The researchers examined population changes in census tracts within 180 metro areas, noting the location of tracts that gained or lost population – and by how much – in the 1980s, 1990s, and from 2000-2010 persons per square mile. They found that, where regions grew, tracts near the center held relatively steady compared to those in the suburbs. But, in those regions that shrank overall, a disproportionately greater share of the losses took place in the centers.

- Indeed, in metro areas that grew in population (e.g., Sun Belt regions and stronger older regions such as Boston, Chicago, and Philadelphia), the greatest growth from 2000 to 2010 took place not just near the center but in downtown census tracts. The comeback of America’s downtowns and adjoining older neighborhoods is real. But, in those metros that lost population (e.g., Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo), losses remained greatest near the cores. A sign of encouragement for the shrinking regions, however, may be that their downtowns lost significantly less population after 2000 than did census tracts between three and fifteen miles from the central business district.

- But perhaps the strongest potential force for bringing sense to our settlement patterns and strengthening central cities may be the business community. This study cites evidence, for example, demonstrating that density is important to productivity. The new findings add to its credibility. Some employers are already reinvesting in core areas (even Detroit) in lieu of further sprawl. I have a feeling that, if business becomes further convinced that reversing the decline of our older cities and neighborhoods is in its interest, the political tools may begin to fall into place.

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[M II A II R II K]

What sprawl costs Northeast Florida


01.02.12

By Virginia Chamlee

Read More: http://floridaindependent.com/58667/...theast-florida

The dismantling of the Department of Community Affairs by Gov. Rick Scott and the Florida Legislature has put more power into the hands of local governments — a good thing, argues the governor, for development and growth. But just how much growth is too much? With the economy still in flux, local governments continue to approve tens of thousands of acres for use as attractive communities — communities that come with their own fire stations, grocery stores and, in some cases, water parks. The reform of growth management laws has eased the process for building new communities, but some say developers were getting their way long before talk of reducing the state’s role in land-use planning. While some argue that sprawl is good, and can lead to jobs and economic development, many — like Lesley Blacker, the president of 2010′s “Hometown Democracy” movement — say it’s hurting local environments and community water resources.

Blackner has teamed up with friend Janet Stanko to launch The Price of Sprawl, a website detailing the consequences of sprawl in counties across the state. Stanko says that Northeast Florida’s St. Johns County is a poster child for over-development — with many large-scale communities sitting empty, and others approved but not yet built. According to Stanko, recent build-out projects in St. Johns contain enough properties to house 182 percent of the current population. Eight percent of homes in the area sit empty; property values have declined 31 percent since 2006. Even Stanko, who obtained her information from a variety of sources, finds the statistics to be almost unbelievable. But, she says, other estimates fall in line with hers. “Other information sources show the overall picture is the same: too much development approved and built, too much cost to the taxpayers and not enough water,” says Stanko.

One community that has Stanko and others like her especially worried is Nocatee, a neighborhood between Jacksonville and St. Augustine that has grown at a staggering pace in recent years. What was once just a parcel of land along County Road 210 is now freshly paved and dotted with palm trees, and the community even boasts a water park complete with a “lazy river” and water slide. But the current number of homes in Nocatee is nowhere near what was originally projected. Nocatee’s story is fragmented across dozens of newspaper and web articles, spanning several years, making it difficult to grasp the whole picture — especially for residents who, says Stanko, “have no idea what’s happening to them.” Stanko points to a 2000 article appearing in the St. Augustine Record, in which St. Johns County Budget Officer Joe Vonasek cited an estimated $692 million in taxes that would be used to offset the then-proposed Nocatee development, over the 25 years it would be built out.

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[Jelly Roll]

Originally Posted by vid

One thing I just noticed about the US is that they build the road before they build the houses. In Canada, or at least Thunder Bay, the houses are built before the road is paved. In some cases, the road won't be paved until every single lot along it has been sold.

It depends on how the local goverment handles the bonding of the project. There are parts of Southern NJ that has subdivisions that do not have paved roads and are completely built out. I do agree that most places do require the road to go in before the houses are constructed and then the final paving is done once all the lots are built out.

[SHOFEAR]

Originally Posted by Jelly Roll

It depends on how the local goverment handles the bonding of the project. There are parts of Southern NJ that has subdivisions that do not have paved roads and are completely built out. I do agree that most places do require the road to go in before the houses are constructed and then the final paving is done once all the lots are built out.

You typically need curbs/sidewalks in place to allow shallow underground construction (gas, power, cable) as they use the curb to set these utilities at proper elevations. Shallow contractors are retards, and if they don't have a curb to follow they are unable to set at a proper elevation and alignment and that creates all kind of problems if you were to construct surface work after.

Also if you are developing an area that has curbs and sidewalks rather than ditches you will want the curbs in place prior to building permits as it is a good way to prevent elevation errors to ensure driveways and lot drainage tie into the curb/sidewalk.

I guess as you move further south, houses under construction don't require gas/power while under construction as there is no need to heat in fall/winter/spring.

Then you have different municipalities have different CCC and FAC requirements. If the city lets you break out asphalt from other surface improvements then the developer isn't in a rush to pave to get their financial releases.

Plus, if roads aren't paved it makes a bad mess on surrounding roads.

Basically only rural areas or areas bending over backward for growth would allow you to build without your first lift of asphalt.