The Official Lansdowne Park Revitalization Thread - Page 80

ajldub · #**1581** Posted: **Feb 9, 2012, 3:44 PM**

Could be worse. The promenade up to the Aberdeen pavilion looks good and the new buildings are alright from their renderings. But there's no way the 40+ year old boxy North side and the curvy south side stands will stand the test of time as pictured. Understandably it's a lot more expensive to redo the north side in this proposal, but that means this won't be the final step in the evolution of Lansdowne. Which means there is still an opportunity in the future for nhl hockey, ohl hockey, cfl football, and nasl/mls soccer in one giant sports hub with one field and one rink on Lebreton Flats/Bayview yards, serviced by a major otrain stop, which would bundle up all parking/traffic/transit/building servicing issues in one solution, and would effectively create a brand new downtown neighborhood at the same time. And the interested parties would make money in the process. And it would be awesome. And it doesn't really require that much imagination to picture it.
Now all we have to do is figure out how to get all the levels of government in this town to cooperate!

isaidso · #**1582** Posted: **Feb 9, 2012, 11:57 PM**

Looks great. Will be wonderful to have football back in the nation's capital again. I suppose with Carleton resurrecting its football program, the annual Panda Game will return to Lansdowne as well.

LeadingEdgeBoomer · #**1583** Posted: **Feb 10, 2012, 1:09 AM**

isaidso said

Quote:

Looks great. Will be wonderful to have football back in the nation's capital again. I suppose with Carleton resurrecting its football program, the annual Panda Game will return to Lansdowne as well.

That looks almost certain. Both schools have mentioned that they want to revive the PG rivalry.

Each uni will play most of their games at their respective small campus stadiums--including including uOttawa's new one.

However, they are likely to rent FCS for major games where the small campus stadiums can not handle the expected attendance. That is almost certainly to be a Panda Game. If either team gets to host the Yates Cup or one of the Bowl games, LP will likely be the venue. Maybe even semi-final playoff games as well, especially if the two teams are facing off in a semi.
I don't know what they will do about a Panda game in 2013 when the Ravens return to the field. LP will not be available in 2013.

The rebuilt stadium should be great place for Ottawa to host its first ever Vanier Cup Game. Maybe for the 150th Confederation celebrations in 2017, if not sooner. To host the Vanier Cup game, you have to put a bid in for the game.

KHOOLE · #**1584** Posted: **Feb 10, 2012, 1:36 AM**

If the playing field is dug up to allow seating subgrade on the south side, what about the FC stadium on the north side? And if there is equivalent seating on that side also, why not make it a 360 all around the field?

From past experience, the upper deck on the south side is not a good idea because you get sun in your eyes and westerly winds and rain in your face.

What about water tables and drainage? Looking at historical pictures, the natural turf field used to be muddy in the old days.

waterloowarrior · #**1585** Posted: **Feb 10, 2012, 2:25 AM**

a bunch of reports are up http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/cit...ndaindex17.htm

bikegypsy · #**1586** Posted: **Feb 10, 2012, 2:52 AM**

Very sexifull

waterloowarrior · #**1587** Posted: **Feb 10, 2012, 3:00 AM**

OSEG - made up of Greenberg (Minto), Ruddy (Trinity), Shenkman, and Hunt made unsolicited offer and are sole-sourced for replacement of Lansdowne Park. Eventually make large complicated deal with City
Need to replace trade show space lost from Lansdowne: Shenkman has land ready and has been working on a proposal for a while, city instructs them to make bid and gives others a chance to respond but then decides to go to tender (2 months). RFP contained specs based on requirements provided to Shenkman the previous summer. 39 take plans, 3 inquire with staff, only 1 bidder - Trinity/Shenkman
Air rights on Lansdowne sold separate from rest of project to raise money for City (OSEG gets no money from air rights IIRC)
Residential air rights go to tender - 22 request document, 6 request meetings with staff, 3 bids are made, 2 bids qualify, Minto Communities Inc wins
Office air rights... out to tender, only 1 bid received, didn't meet minimum requirement. City reissues tender. Again only one bid received: Minto Properties Inc. Bid is lower than expected, staff recommend accepting.

I like the Lansdowne proposal, but it doesn't look good for the City that the firms of the OSEG partners got $10s of millions in related business with little to no competition.

phil235 · #**1588** Posted: **Feb 10, 2012, 3:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

OSEG - made up of Greenberg (Minto), Ruddy (Trinity), Shenkman, and Hunt made unsolicited offer and are sole-sourced for replacement of Lansdowne Park. Eventually make large complicated deal with City
Need to replace trade show space lost from Lansdowne: Shenkman has land ready and has been working on a proposal for a while, city instructs them to make bid and gives others a chance to respond but then decides to go to tender (2 months). RFP contained specs based on requirements provided to Shenkman the previous summer. 39 take plans, 3 inquire with staff, only 1 bidder - Trinity/Shenkman
Air rights on Lansdowne sold separate from rest of project to raise money for City (OSEG gets no money from air rights IIRC)
Residential air rights go to tender - 22 request document, 6 request meetings with staff, 3 bids are made, 2 bids qualify, Minto Communities Inc wins
Office air rights... out to tender, only 1 bid received, didn't meet minimum requirement. City reissues tender. Again only one bid received: Minto Properties Inc. Bid is lower than expected, staff recommend accepting.

I like the Lansdowne proposal, but it doesn't look good for the City that the firms of the OSEG partners got $10s of millions in related business with little to no competition.

The fact that there was little to no competition does lend credence to the contention that there aren't other bidders out there who could provide the same services (well, that and the 30 years of inactivity on the site), and that this isn't some sort of "sweetheart deal".

I am a little puzzled that staff concluded that the viability of the project could be undermined if the office space component is not built. I really want to see the offices as part of the mix of uses, but it worries me that that the solvency of the project could depend on the construction of office space that no one else seems to want to build.

That said, I would kill to work in those offices.

nredding · #**1589** Posted: **Feb 10, 2012, 3:10 PM**

It seems to me the office space at Lansdowne suffers the same problem as the rest of the project, no free parking and poor transit service.

lrt's friend · #**1590** Posted: **Feb 10, 2012, 5:23 PM**

I think the market for office space is little more complex than parking and transit. It is more likely the current overall economic climate.

I also think the general lack of bidding also relates to the fact that Ottawa is not that big of city and pretty well all the big boys are already involved in this project. I think this also suggests that an RFP would not generate much worthwhile if we are expecting more than just designs, ie the ability to actually make it happen.

reidjr · #**1591** Posted: **Feb 10, 2012, 5:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I think the market for office space is little more complex than parking and transit. It is more likely the current overall economic climate.

I also think the general lack of bidding also relates to the fact that Ottawa is not that big of city and pretty well all the big boys are already involved in this project. I think this also suggests that an RFP would not generate much worthwhile if we are expecting more than just designs, ie the ability to actually make it happen.

As for the lack of bidding means its a small city not really if you look at some of the real big city's population wise they do have this same sort of issue with a lack of bidding in some cases.

rocketphish · #**1592** Posted: **Feb 10, 2012, 6:55 PM**

An article from OBJ explaining some of the challenges building office space in this context...
http://www.obj.ca/Real-Estate/2012-0...pment-rights/1

Minto poised to land Lansdowne development rights

City staff are recommending that one of the developers behind the Lansdowne Park revitalization also be awarded the rights to construct office and residential buildings on the historic Glebe property.

While Minto submitted a higher-than-expected bid for the residential component, a lack of industry interest in constructing an office building on the site means the project's proponents will have to take on an additional $2.6 million of debt.

In a report going before the city's finance committee on Thursday, staff say Minto Properties Inc. was the only developer to submit a bid to build an office tower, even after the municipality dropped a requirement for bidders to chip in for associated development costs.

The city had expected developers to pay $6.95 million just to cover a portion of the development costs related to the required infrastructure upgrades, underground parking garage and other expenses. That's in addition to the market value of the development rights themselves, which the city estimated at $198,000 annually.

However, Minto is only offering $3.49 million for the office development rights, plus a one-time payment after the building's tenth year of operations equal to 50 per cent of the profits in excess of an 11 per cent internal rate of return.

While the exact revenues from the office won't be known until the tenth year, the city is facing a shortfall of up to $3.465 million.

City staff say there are several reasons developers may have been hesitant to bid on the office rights.

With no ability to pre-lease space, a developer would have to construct the project on speculation. This often makes it difficult to obtain financing.

There are other risks. The building is outside the central business district, meaning the landlord will likely only be able to charge lower suburban rents. However, most developers of suburban buildings don't have to assume the costs of providing an underground parking garage.

The proposed office building will contain 100,000 square feet over seven storeys, sitting atop a single-storey retail building.

On the residential side, Minto was one of three bidders vying for the rights to build up to 280 new homes, totalling approximately 373,000 square feet. These include a nine-storey condo atop a two-storey commercial podium at the corner of Bank Street and Holmwood Avenue, a four-storey low-density building along Holmwood Avenue and a high-density mixed-use building beside the Bank Street Bridge over the Rideau Canal.

Minto submitted a bid of $30.5 million, which includes $19.135 million to cover a share of the broader infrastructure and amenity upgrades required for the site.

That exceeds the expected bid for the residential component by $1.16 million.

LeadingEdgeBoomer · #**1593** Posted: **Feb 10, 2012, 7:13 PM**

The OBJ article does not mention another reason why there is not a lot of interest in building office space right now.

That is, all the talk about significant cutbacks and reducing the size of the federal public service. That could also mean a cutback in the amount of office space the feds lease. There could be an increase in the amount of vacant space available (and a reduction of prices), making it harder to lease newly built space. So the developers of office space may be sitting back and waiting to see how it all plays out.

waterloowarrior · #**1594** Posted: **Feb 11, 2012, 3:16 AM**

Here's an article that addresses the perception/optics issue and talks about what the City did to ensure fairness in the process
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/La...560/story.html

It's great that Minto will be doing another highrise project... they've had a lot of activity in Toronto recently but nothing in Ottawa really since Metropole.

here's their latest proposal for Front and Bathurst with Toronto developer Peter Freed (architect is Rudy Wallman)

source
http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2012/01/...hurst-leak-out

Cntrtwnr · #**1595** Posted: **Feb 13, 2012, 6:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by nredding

It seems to me the office space at Lansdowne suffers the same problem as the rest of the project, no free parking and poor transit service.

Hmmmm...Traffic on Bank St. at "rush hour" moves along quite well actually (buses included) what with the traffic restrictions keeping lanes open, and Free Parking?? what's this free thing your talking about....who has that anymore in the "core"? (yes i'm including the glebe as "core")

We get it, your not a fan of the OSEG deal...don't worry, the increase in street parking numbers should be minimal in the northern/western edge of the glebe, we'll be fine.

Love the renderings....and can't wait, my wife and were chatting about it on Friday...can't wait for different shops, cinema, hopefully a couple more restaurant options...all walking distance wooooooo.

Had a random thought on traffic.....Yes Bank gets pretty jammed on game days, but as someone who lives there it's very easily avoidable..and we know the routes around the mess if you are driving somewhere. If you are driving to bank...well get of yer lazy ass and walk.

cheers

S-Man · #**1596** Posted: **Feb 14, 2012, 6:47 AM**

was I the only one thinking of A Clockwork Orange after seeing those Minto renderings from TO?

Cre47 · #**1597** Posted: **Feb 22, 2012, 12:34 AM**

And the spamming by the Conservancy keeps on going. Now they are spamming Gray's blog. Get over it! You've lost! now enjoy the football, the outdoor hockey games and mega concerts Pearl Jam, Rolling Stones or Gaga style.

Jamaican-Phoenix · #**1598** Posted: **Feb 22, 2012, 3:08 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cre47

And the spamming by the Conservancy keeps on going. Now they are spamming Gray's blog. Get over it! You've lost! now enjoy the football, the outdoor hockey games and mega concerts Pearl Jam, Rolling Stones or Gaga style.

Wait, what?

Cre47 · #**1599** Posted: **Feb 22, 2012, 10:01 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

Wait, what?

Sure they will like that. OF course, I'm just throwing names as regarding acts, I bet they will still all go all the way to Kanata if they pass here.

LeadingEdgeBoomer · #**1600** Posted: **Mar 3, 2012, 6:45 PM**

John Ruddy of Trinity and OSEG gave another one million to local charity yesterday.

Some here might know theat JR is the major backer of Carleton Ravens football. He gave 2.5 million of the 5 miilion in private money that the Old Crows needed to convince Carleton to bring back football. He played for the Ravens.

I am a Gee-Gees supporter, but I won't hold his Raven connection against him.

Quote:

The Royal Ottawa Foundation for Mental Health was given $1-million donation for depression research Friday night during the Inspiration Awards Gala.

The donation from John Ruddy of Trinity Development Group was announced at the gala, which attracted more than 500 people. Ruddy is the honorary chair of The Royal’s philanthropic campaign.

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/health/...#ixzz1o51gvlRY

Still waitng the FOL appeal decision. The one that was supposed to be revealed quickly. if this is quick I would hate to be waiting for a slow appeals court decision.