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  #101  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 7:01 AM
J. Will J. Will is offline
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>>because Philadelphia's situation pretty much requires us to synergize the Toronto Eaton Centre solutions<<

What exactly are you referring to? Are you referring to the renovations that the Toronto Eaton Centre is currently undergoing?
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  #102  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 7:25 PM
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>>because Philadelphia's situation pretty much requires us to synergize the Toronto Eaton Centre solutions<<

What exactly are you referring to? Are you referring to the renovations that the Toronto Eaton Centre is currently undergoing?
Philly has to attract the destination retail that continues to locate in the suburbs.
Center City Philly already has a good collection of local unique stores. But the huge destination stores like Nordstroms, etc are missing. And the fact that MACY'S operates a Center City store that is smaller than most suburban stores does not help the Philly retail environment at all. I think the King of Prussia MACY'S is double the size or more of the Center City store.
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  #103  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 8:12 PM
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You'd expect suburban mall stores to be physically larger than those found downtown due to lack of available space and price. And plus does bigger equate to a larger variety of stuff being sold to draw one there instead.
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  #104  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2010, 12:55 AM
miketoronto miketoronto is offline
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You'd expect suburban mall stores to be physically larger than those found downtown due to lack of available space and price. And plus does bigger equate to a larger variety of stuff being sold to draw one there instead.
The Philly Macy's at one time the Wannamaker Store has been downsized since the 1990's. It once covered something like 10 floors and well over half a million sq feet of retail space or more.
Today it totals two or three floors and just over 150,000 sq feet.
This is smaller than a typical suburban Macy's.
The Macy's at King of Prussia is in the 250,000 sq foot range.

In addition many Center City residents have voiced concern that the Center City store has limited selection compared to the suburban stores. A side from the architecture and a couple events they hold at the store, the Center City store is not a metropolitan draw, as the selection just sucks.

Downtowns have huge locations for stores. Strawbridges is sitting empty. Right there is half a million sq feet of retail space. Bring in the Nordstroms
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  #105  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2010, 2:36 AM
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Demand for upscale shopping in that area around the mall must have lead to having those stores open up there in the first place, so there'd be no taking away from the King Of Prussia Mall.

But what about Center City, Walnut St. should become another Magnificent Mile or something...
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  #106  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2010, 3:17 AM
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^^^ There are almost no large retail spaces on Walnut street, or Chestnut Street. It seems department stores are pretty important to urban retail districts; just like at a mall, they serve as anchors. In Philly, Market street should be redeveloped to attract department stores and retailers looking for big spaces. And Chestnut and Walnut can continue to serve a more intimate retail setting for boutiques.

Philly is too awesome to have a mall in the suburbs be the dominant retail district in the metro.
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  #107  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2010, 5:05 AM
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Originally Posted by killaviews View Post
^^^ There are almost no large retail spaces on Walnut street, or Chestnut Street. It seems department stores are pretty important to urban retail districts; just like at a mall, they serve as anchors. In Philly, Market street should be redeveloped to attract department stores and retailers looking for big spaces. And Chestnut and Walnut can continue to serve a more intimate retail setting for boutiques.

Philly is too awesome to have a mall in the suburbs be the dominant retail district in the metro.
I would agree. Philadelphia has too many people and too much money not to be able to support a cohesive shopping district, even an upscale one.
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  #108  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2010, 5:25 AM
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Walnut street is a top 10 shopping street in the nation, at least as far as rents. The space issue in Philly is kind of a problem as some have mentioned. Walnut street is continuing to be filled in, but sometimes the highest paying retailers are not the most desirable. The problem is creating a cohesive shopping district in Philly, as opposed to streets.

As far as the macy's, the space it is in is breathtaking, that alone is usually enough draw for tourists. You will not find a department store anywhere in the states in such a breathtaking space.

Downtown has several desirable retailers including Burberry, Coach, A/X, 2 h&m's, 2 Ann Taylors, J.Crew, Express, Urban Outfitters, Barneys Co-op, American Apparel, Apple, Diesel, Club Monaco, Williams Sonoma, Lucky, True Religion, Ralph Lauren, Nicole Miller, Banana Republic, and I can keep going. It has represented many of the stores any high-end mall would. In my opinion it needs more of mid-priced retailers to fill in the crack, and finally some top level retail. Hollister, abercrombie, forever 21 etc and on the other side of the spectrum Louis, Gucci, Boss, etc.

Cohesion is key in center city, and its going to be hard to do. Especially since others have alluded to the second biggest mall in the states with arguably the best store selection of any mall in the country right next door. Think, if that wasn't there, it would all be in center city. Its a fun fantasy.
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  #109  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2010, 1:38 PM
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According to the Center City District, the Gallery at Market East has
40,000 + people pass by or shop there each day.
That is a ton of people.

The issue with Center City is not that stores closed due to lack of business. Strawbridges maintained a flagship store until the chain was bought by MACY'S which then closed down the store to keep the Wannamaker building open.
All the other stores that departed Center City along Market Street were department store chains that closed as the chains themselves closed, mostly due to mergers and families dying off and not continuning the business.

The only issue is that stores like Nordstroms went for the malls instead of locating in Center City.

But then King of Prussia is such a draw that even people from Manhattan shop there. They actually have buses to take Manhattan residents from NYC to King of Prussia to shop.
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  #110  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2010, 2:08 PM
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Magnificent Market could be the answer.
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  #111  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2010, 7:27 PM
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I'm surprised Philly doesn't have a Nordstroms downtown.
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  #112  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2010, 5:48 PM
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Mall Developers Look to Outlet Centers as New Avenue for Growth


Read More: http://retailtrafficmag.com/developm...ters_10262010/

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As opportunities for new retail development have dwindled in recent years, REITs that have traditionally specialized in building regional malls started to look into building outlet centers. The latest firm to move into the sector is CBL & Associates Properties Inc., a Chattanooga, Tenn.-based regional mall operator, which last week announced it had entered into a joint venture with Horizon Group Properties to build an outlet center in Oklahoma City, Okla.

- The outlet sector has outperformed other retail property types during the downturn because of consumers’ focus on value. And with only 60 million square feet of outlet center space currently available in the U.S. market, there is opportunity for new construction, industry sources say.

- “It turns out that everybody is looking at developing outlet centers,” says Rich Moore, a REIT analyst with RBC Capital Markets. “It is the hottest sector in retail by far and the tenants are very interested in adding space [in that category]. The whole value concept is resonating right now.”

- CBL is not alone in its newfound interest in outlet centers. Taubman Centers Inc., a Bloomfield Hills, Mich.-based regional mall REIT, recently redeveloped its Great Lakes Crossing mall in Auburn Hills, Mich. into Great Lakes Crossing Outlets. The center now houses Polo Ralph Lauren Factory Store, Wilson’s Leather Outlet and aerie Outlet by American Eagle, among other outlet tenants. Macerich Co., a Santa Monica, Calif.-based regional mall REIT also talked about exploring outlet center development during an ICSC conference earlier this year.

- The focus on outlet centers as the next avenue for growth makes sense, given consumers’ continued preference for value retail, says Moore. In addition, while retailers remain extremely cautious about opening new regional mall stores, many are launching new outlet concepts this year. These include Bloomingdales, Jos. A. Bank and Famous Footwear, among others.

- “There are certainly enormous expanses of this country that have not even been touched by outlet center space,” Wagner says. “The outlet industry is absolutely booming right now.”

- Wagner cautions, however, that regional mall developers might not realize that the outlet center sector is not an easy one to break into. Even though regional mall REITs boast existing relationships with most national retailers, the retail executives responsible for outlet center leasing are not the same ones who look for regional mall sites, she says.

- And because retail chains have to make sure that their outlet distribution channels don’t compete directly with their wholesale operations, signing a lease on an outlet store takes a lot longer than signing a regional mall store—often, up to a year’s worth of negotiations. What’s more, regional mall operators are used to building centers that rely on a five- to 10-mile radius for the bulk of their shoppers. Outlet centers need to draw people from a radius of up to 90 miles, Wagner says.
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  #113  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2010, 2:48 AM
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Actually, according to the Macy's website, if you look hard enough, the Center City Macy's has about 318k sf of retail, which makes it the largest Macy's by sf area in the Mid-Atlantic (Philly, Baltimore, DC, eastern Virginia) region.

Still well under the 2,000,000+ sf retailing space the building traditionally held, though...Prior to the Federated-May merger, the space was a Lord & Taylor. Given several factors, including the history of the structure, I'm guessing that upper-level management has a long-term plan to expand and reclaim selling space in what is potentially the most regionally important space in the lower Northeast.
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  #114  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2010, 3:21 AM
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Actually, according to the Macy's website, if you look hard enough, the Center City Macy's has about 318k sf of retail, which makes it the largest Macy's by sf area in the Mid-Atlantic (Philly, Baltimore, DC, eastern Virginia) region.

Still well under the 2,000,000+ sf retailing space the building traditionally held, though...Prior to the Federated-May merger, the space was a Lord & Taylor. Given several factors, including the history of the structure, I'm guessing that upper-level management has a long-term plan to expand and reclaim selling space in what is potentially the most regionally important space in the lower Northeast.
This is from the Macy's Center City website.

http://www.visitmacysphiladelphia.com/

"With over 157,940 square feet of the latest trends in fashion and home décor coupled with nearly 100 years of retailing history, Macy’s Center City, located in the historic Wanamaker building, is a must-see destination for historians and shopping enthusiasts alike."

That is just sad that Macy's can't offer more space in a downtown store in the fifth largest city in the nation. Suburban stores in New Jersey alone are almost double the size at an average of 250,000 sq feet.
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  #115  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2010, 3:55 AM
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Well, here's what corporate says, and according to the square footage table on the bottom, as of this past February, the Philadelphia City Center (sic) Macy's had 386,000 square feet. It is, however, likely that part of the discrepancy is due to the store offices which fill a third of the third floor...

Also remember that prior to becoming Macy's, this space was a Lord & Taylor, which usually only takes up 150k sf as compared to the at least 500k sf a downtown Macy's would need.
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  #116  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2010, 7:24 AM
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Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
Suburban stores in New Jersey alone are almost double the size at an average of 250,000 sq feet.
Suburban stores are often (or even usually nowadays) larger than the center city stores.

The Macys at Garden State Plaza, in Paramus, NJ (the other end of the state) has about 500,000 square feet, and tends to have some of the highest sales per foot in the nation.

The Macys at Roosevelt Field Mall (Long Island) is even bigger and more successful.

Outside of NYC, and maybe a few stores in SF, Chicago and one or two other places, the big moneymaking department stores are in the suburban malls.
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  #117  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2010, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
Well, here's what corporate says, and according to the square footage table on the bottom, as of this past February, the Philadelphia City Center (sic) Macy's had 386,000 square feet. It is, however, likely that part of the discrepancy is due to the store offices which fill a third of the third floor...

Also remember that prior to becoming Macy's, this space was a Lord & Taylor, which usually only takes up 150k sf as compared to the at least 500k sf a downtown Macy's would need.
That is a cool website. I think that does include office space and storage room, etc. Because they list the State Street store in Chicago as 2 million sq feet. But it is common knowledge that the selling space is only about 800,000 sq feet. Same with Pittsburgh. They list it as over a million sq feet. But the selling space is really only I believe 600,000 sq feet.
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  #118  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2010, 3:12 PM
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I wouldn't be surprised if Toronto has the only existing Sears that's right downtown.
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  #119  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2010, 4:46 PM
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Over-retailed? What does that mean? There must be enough customers to support all of these stores or they wouldn't keep building more of them.

I'd think that this kind of thing would be self-regulating.
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  #120  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2010, 4:47 PM
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^^^ Chicago has a downtown Sears.
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