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Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces > SSP: Local Halifax > Suburbs

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  #21  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2010, 10:16 AM
beyeas beyeas is offline
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Originally Posted by Dmajackson View Post
The ferry terminal/library building is in the first phase and already has a road connection to it so when its built it should quickly attract some more developers to the area.
Cool... quite happy to be wrong in this case!
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  #22  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2010, 11:51 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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I was under the impression that some of the residential was associated with developments around Wright's Cove - United Gulf and three other developers (I might be completely wrong, if I am then maybe someone could let me know).
Shows how much I know about Bedford (almost nothing). Wright's Cove is near Burnside.

However there are some projects taking place around the circumference of the Bedford Waterfront conceptual proposal. I got these from Dmajackon's development map - http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&...,0.038109&z=15 Move the map over to the Bedford area near Moirs Lake.

Dockside - http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=147403

827 Bedford - http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=168578

Southgate - http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=172249

Also, I remember in the news a couple of months ago about a project of two towers each 6 sroreys that were being combined into one 12 storey condo tower (I think in the Bedford area near a China restaurant - is that close to the Waterfront Proposal?).

Since there is quite a bit of development taking place so close to this conceptual proposal, it might not take too long to become a reality. If the Waterfront concept goes forward then maybe a lot of people in the HRM will start to notice Bedford.

Note: The CN tracks going into Halifax pass right though. If Bedford continues to grow then rail transit to downtown Halifax will start to make more and more sense.

Last edited by fenwick16; Jun 19, 2010 at 12:01 PM.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2010, 4:16 PM
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Dmajackson Dmajackson is offline
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
However there are some projects taking place around the circumference of the Bedford Waterfront conceptual proposal. I got these from Dmajackon's development map - http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&...,0.038109&z=15 Move the map over to the Bedford area near Moirs Lake.

Dockside - http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=147403

827 Bedford - http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=168578

Southgate - http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=172249
Yep there's also THe Wyatt (864 Bfd Hwy) under construction in the area too. Here's an aerial photo I included in the first post showing the locations of those projects;

Red = Southgate Village
Green = Dockside
Purple = The Wyatt (864 Bfd Hwy)
Black = 827 Bfd Hwy



Quote:
Also, I remember in the news a couple of months ago about a project of two towers each 6 sroreys that were being combined into one 12 storey condo tower (I think in the Bedford area near a China restaurant - is that close to the Waterfront Proposal?).
Chinatown Restuarant is in the Birch Cove area of Mainland Halifax near Rockingham so it's about 5km or so to the south of the Bedford plans. HRM also conducted a study for the lands between these two areas and for now just want to connect them via an extension of the Bedford Harbourwalk. Though it does also state if waterlots are bought out waterfront development could connect the two eventually.

Quote:
Note: The CN tracks going into Halifax pass right though. If Bedford continues to grow then rail transit to downtown Halifax will start to make more and more sense.
The location of the ferry terminal was not only influenced by proximity of the Bedford Highway but also the train tracks. There's land reserved for a future train stop, if it becomes feasible, right across the street from the ferry terminal which when including the small bus drop-off in the ferry terminal parking lot will make a three-system transit terminal (potentially the first in HRM).
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  #24  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2010, 4:48 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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I didn't notice the construction map before, Dmajackson - nice work. Interesting about the train terminal.

Considering all the time that you spend related to construction projects - are you considering making a career out of it (examples - engineering, architecture, urban planning ...)?
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  #25  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2010, 9:43 PM
terrynorthend terrynorthend is offline
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The vista driving west across the Mackay is going to be spectacular with all the development growing around the Basin. I remember that nighttime drive when I was young; I loved the way the lights in Fairview streamed off in parallel lines, but then to the north around the Basin it was just blackness. Even now it is filling in with lights and activity, I can't wait until all these projects get rolling!
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  #26  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2010, 9:50 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by terrynorthend View Post
The vista driving west across the Mackay is going to be spectacular with all the development growing around the Basin. I remember that nighttime drive when I was young; I loved the way the lights in Fairview streamed off in parallel lines, but then to the north around the Basin it was just blackness. Even now it is filling in with lights and activity, I can't wait until all these projects get rolling!
Good point, Bedford will become very noticeable from the MacKay bridge. The Bayview condo tower will make a big difference and then there is the 12 storey one in Birch Cove (although these aren't in Bedford).
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  #27  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2010, 11:20 PM
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Dmajackson Dmajackson is offline
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Originally Posted by terrynorthend View Post
The vista driving west across the Mackay is going to be spectacular with all the development growing around the Basin. I remember that nighttime drive when I was young; I loved the way the lights in Fairview streamed off in parallel lines, but then to the north around the Basin it was just blackness. Even now it is filling in with lights and activity, I can't wait until all these projects get rolling!
I still love that view at night. The view of Fairview lights off of Massachusetts Avenue is gorgeous as well.

The only darks are really remaining are near MSVU (tree coverage) and Magazine Hill I think.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2010, 11:36 PM
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I didn't notice the construction map before, Dmajackson - nice work. Interesting about the train terminal.

Considering all the time that you spend related to construction projects - are you considering making a career out of it (examples - engineering, architecture, urban planning ...)?
Yah Tim (Outhit) is a supporter of some form of rail transit being introduced along the corridor so it didn't surprise me they saved space for it just in case.

I'm starting courses in September for land-use planning but I might get another degree after that for urban planning (Dal rejected me this year). I already have a plan for a piece of nice cottage land on the north shore and as soon I have enough money in a few years to consider buying it I'm going to start pressuring the (in-fighting) family that owns it to sell.
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  #29  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2010, 11:50 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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It is good that have you have some term goals. The Annapolis Valley is a scenic part of Nova Scotia (I lived there for many years when I was young). There is a great view from the north mountain overlooking Bridgetown.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2010, 1:46 PM
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Man’s video captures vanishing shoreline

Infilling on Bedford waterfront will pave way for 16-hectare development


By CLARE MELLOR

Staff Reporter

Mark Currie hopes images he has captured of a small piece of nat ural shoreline and a reef in Bed ford Basin tell the story.

“As you know, images are worth a thousand words," he said Wednesday.

The area near small Crosby Island in Bedford Basin is teem ing with life and home to nesting sandpipers, mud crabs, fish and jellyfish.

But the area where he takes his 11-year-old son beachcomb ing is likely to soon vanish due to infilling operations on the Bed ford waterfront, said Currie, a longtime Bedford resident.

With the help of a friend, Currie has created a video of the area and posted it on You Tube.

“Thirty years from now, I can look at my son and say at least I said something."

The Waterfront Development Corp. is infilling the shoreline of Bedford Basin to create 16 hec tares of land that will eventually be home to a new commercial and residential development, a public building such as a library, and a boardwalk.

The development, unveiled at a public meeting in June, could take more than 20 years to build. It will run along the Bedford Highway from the Clearwater Seafoods property to the Bouti lier boatyard on Shore Drive.

Currie said he expressed his concern to Waterfront Devel opment officials about the nat ural area at the June meeting.

“I knew the habitat area exist ed. . . . What they had stated for the record was that the only original shoreline left was the little southern edge of Crosby Island," he said.

“They basically didn’t acknowledge that there was more shoreline there."

That’s when Currie decided to capture it on video.

“I figured if they are not going to acknowledge it at the public session then I’ll take it upon myself to acknowledge it public ly."

On Wednesday, Eric Burchill said the Waterfront Development Corp. is looking into the issue.

“This is new information to us. . . . It will take us a little time to look into it and see if there is anything further that needs to be done," said Burchill, director of planning and development with the corporation.

Infilling, which is roughly 60 per cent complete, has been going on for almost a decade now, he said.

“It had an environmental impact assessment conducted prior to operations commencing, and we have always followed all the required federal and pro vincial regulatory requirements.

. . . There was no issue that I am aware of with regard to nesting habitat."

While there are plans to infill the area in question at some point, Burchill said infilling is currently going on in deeper water away from Crosby Island.

“There will be no operations that will be impacting it current ly."

Bedford Coun. Tim Outhit said he has heard some concerns from residents about the pro posed development, but none about the infilling encroaching on habitat.

“Residents sometimes say to me, ‘How long is this going to go on?’ and this sort of thing, but nobody has contacted me to say stop the infilling," he said Wednesday.

(cmellor@herald.ca)

Video Link
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  #31  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2010, 2:06 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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I can't say that I have too much sympathy. Although I appreciate wildlife, just because wildlife decides to build their habitats within a urban setting should we all move elsewhere? Is there any land where people can live where there isn't some wildlife? There needs to be land for the human species also (some of us could even be considered to be wildlife).

I guess what strikes me is that the person that made this video wants others to give up their plans, but is he willing to convert his own home into parkland? His own home was at one time a habitat for wildlife. Did he make a video showing how his own home has impacted wildlife?
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  #32  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2010, 3:58 PM
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bluenoser bluenoser is offline
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I agree: humans need space to live and this is a city, after all. This development would have a dense population and lots of public transit, theoretically replacing many hectares of housing and countless amounts of car emissions, yet this guy wants to veto it for a jellyfish. I'm pretty confident the birds would find another place to nest.

Wasn't this area already altered from it's natural state with infilling a while ago? It sure looks that way from the aerial shots.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2010, 12:24 PM
phrenic phrenic is offline
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I can't say that I have too much sympathy. Although I appreciate wildlife, just because wildlife decides to build their habitats within a urban setting should we all move elsewhere?
Umm, pretty sure 'wildlife' was there before it ever was an urban area.

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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
I guess what strikes me is that the person that made this video wants others to give up their plans, but is he willing to convert his own home into parkland? His own home was at one time a habitat for wildlife. Did he make a video showing how his own home has impacted wildlife?
Not at all the point and a ridiculous way to throw it back at him. He's basically saying that there is more shoreline and wildlife there than the developer and/or Department of Environment have acknowledged - which appears to be absolutely true.

It's a shame this is being lost, but overall the development is for the greater good. However maybe there is a need for better environmental impact studies when it comes to infill projects.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2010, 12:44 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Umm, pretty sure 'wildlife' was there before it ever was an urban area.
Why doesn't he give his home to the aboriginals who were here before he was? They would say that they own his property?
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  #35  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2010, 2:36 PM
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I agree with Phrenic. This is more about highlighting that the proper environmental impact assessments were not carried out by the developer or the planning department. I don't think it is the case here, but yes sometimes species wilderness protection is more important than a new shiny building. I think these are great looking plans, but had it been known and incorporated that these habitats were here some truly amazing things could have been done.
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  #36  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2010, 3:28 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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I agree with Phrenic. This is more about highlighting that the proper environmental impact assessments were not carried out by the developer or the planning department. I don't think it is the case here, but yes sometimes species wilderness protection is more important than a new shiny building. I think these are great looking plans, but had it been known and incorporated that these habitats were here some truly amazing things could have been done.
There are various species located everywhere that people build. The question is, what is the solution to disturbing wildlife? For example - 1) minimize the amount of land developed by building only highrises, therefore no single dwelling homes or lowrises, 2) put a stop to population growth (this will be required at some time, and is being done already), 3) stop development in the HRM and ensure that all new "shiny buildings" are built in Toronto and Montreal (not a bad idea but what if they decide to stop sending transfer payments?).

The problem that I have with this discussion is that it sounds very pompous; saying that wildlife should be saved at the expense of development doesn't sound reasonable within an urban setting. These arguments just sound very hypocritical without any stated solutions (for example the 3 that I stated above). People also need a place to live, and I personally like "shiny buildings". These "shiny buildings" are the habitat of the human species just like wildlife has their own building developments (beavers build dams, ants build anthills ...). Why should the human species feel guilty for its existence?

The person that made the video could have easily gone just about anywhere within the thousands of miles of Nova Scotia coastline and made the same video. Most of the Nova Scotia coastline is undisturbed and would have very similar habitats. So why did he chose that location? This is why I consider his video to be pompous and hypocritical (I assume he owns a home and drives a car).

Last edited by fenwick16; Jul 2, 2010 at 5:56 PM.
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  #37  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2010, 6:49 PM
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Jonovision Jonovision is offline
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
There are various species located everywhere that people build. The question is, what is the solution to disturbing wildlife? For example - 1) minimize the amount of land developed by building only highrises, therefore no single dwelling homes or lowrises, 2) put a stop to population growth (this will be required at some time, and is being done already), 3) stop development in the HRM and ensure that all new "shiny buildings" are built in Toronto and Montreal (not a bad idea but what if they decide to stop sending transfer payments?).

The problem that I have with this discussion is that it sounds very pompous; saying that wildlife should be saved at the expense of development doesn't sound reasonable within an urban setting. These arguments just sound very hypocritical without any stated solutions (for example the 3 that I stated above). People also need a place to live, and I personally like "shiny buildings". These "shiny buildings" are the habitat of the human species just like wildlife has their own building developments (beavers build dams, ants build anthills ...). Why should the human species feel guilty for its existence?

The person that made the video could have easily gone just about anywhere within the thousands of miles of Nova Scotia coastline and made the same video. Most of the Nova Scotia coastline is undisturbed and would have very similar habitats. So why did he chose that location? This is why I consider his video to be pompous and hypocritical (I assume he owns a home and drives a car).
I find your statements to be quite pompous to be equally pompous. So that is a moot point. What I was referring to was development where both the human and the natural setting are taken into account.

Take a look at what is happening in Toronto.
Video Link


They are incorporating nature and high density development together. Making for what will probably be one of the most fantastic urban areas in the country.

All I'm trying to say is that there was a fault in the planning here and not all factors were taken into consideration. I do think this is a great development, but I do not think it is the best we can do.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2010, 8:28 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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One solution may be a re-design of the project; dedicating this area as a natural wetland to be undisturbed and then adding more infill to another location.

Having seen some environmental assessments, I have some sympathy for this wildlife because frankly; some of the EA's are pretty pathetic.

That being said - as the dominant species on the planet, we too need places to live. It's all a matter of balance. One of the things people forget with many places full of concrete (which typically infill development like this is) is how to deal with storm runoff and natural environments. One complaint about this plan I read about is the lack of a major park - why not keep this as a natural area and encorporate it with some walkways?
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  #39  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2010, 9:34 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Interesting video. Look at the video with the elevated Gardiner Expressway in the background. Downtown Toronto is cut off from the waterfront by highways and industrial buildings. They are talking about having walkways and green spaces by the waterfront with thousands of residential units. Essentially what they are talking about for the Toronto waterfront is what the HRM already has.

I remember reading in a Toronto newspaper a few years ago about a Toronto mayor who went to Halifax and returned to Toronto wondering how Halifax, a city of 500,000 (he exaggerated the population), could have a better waterfront than Toronto. The HRM already has a great waterfront, it doesn't need to be exaggerated by a promotional video. Look at this image below, is it really that much worst than what they are talking about for the Toronto waterfront (it is probably better since it is on a large ocean instead of a large lake)? Take the people who made the Toronto waterfront promotional video and get them to make a promotional video about the Bedford Waterfront proposal and I am sure that it would sound like one of the wonders of the world.

However, I agree, the HRM has some interesting underwater habitats. So now that the harbour has been cleaned up, maybe something interesting could be done - how about a glass tunnel extending into the harbour to see the natural habitat? Halifax has some sunken ships that only deep-water scuba drivers get to see. Is there a way to have a tunnel going deep down into the harbour so that many other people will get to see it (far-fetched but I think that it would be a great attraction, especially if it could extend down 200 feet near the deepest part of the harbour)? Maybe it could be done with underwater cameras projected onto a large screen, if it can't be done physically with tunnels. The live camera feed could be fed to the Maritime Museum of the Atlantic.

(source: http://www.halifax.ca/visionhrm/Bedf...esignStudy.pdf )


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  #40  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2010, 12:19 AM
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Take the people who made the Toronto waterfront promotional video and get them to make a promotional video about the Bedford Waterfront proposal and I am sure that it would sound like one of the wonders of the world.
Not likely. You are comparing a plan designed by Halifax-based Ekistics who is probably better at designing golf courses than urban waterfronts with an awarding winning design by Rotterdam-based West 8 - easily one of the top landscape architecture and urbanism design and research firms in the world. The two plans are worlds apart. The Bedford waterfront design is overly artificial and seems to be completely disconnected with both the physical territory as well as with any sort of notion of housing demand and economic factors.
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