Vogue Theatre Restored but its Curtains for the Pantages

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by quobobo

Personally I'm pretty happy with this. I'd really rather not have the city involved in any cultural/heritage matters.

Why? By the same token should they get of running community centres and libraries?

[whatnext]

So it is done. The Panatages demolition has begun:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...emolition.html

Thanks Mayor Moonbeam + Vision for cancelling the heritage density transfer program.

[jlousa]

Can't fault Vision nor the previous council for this one, the developer Worthington was asking for unreasonable amounts of density. Google them for other stories of interest. It's sad that this property ever wound up in their hands.

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by whatnext

So it is done. The Panatages demolition has begun:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...emolition.html

Thanks Mayor Moonbeam + Vision for cancelling the heritage density transfer program.

Would you like to pay for its ongoing upkeep?

[delboy]

the interior was lost some time ago, which would have been worth preserving. The exerior is not particulary unique nor worth saving in my mind.

[BCPhil]

In any future development on the site, the developer should be forced to include a community performance center that will hopefully be considered heritage worthy in 100 years.

[itinerant]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

In any future development on the site, the developer should be forced to include a community performance center that will hopefully be considered heritage worthy in 100 years.

That is really not practical. The Pantages was unique despite its location in a present-day depressed area, and worth preserving. Community groups who would use the performance space it provided were brought in to make the proposal more attractive to The City.

A future performance space would not find a happy home at that location, and I would not think it would be reasonable to tie a developer's hands by requiring it. Why do you think it languished for so long?

[mezzanine]

^ i'm also not sure if there is current demand for a totally new performance theatre in that location, as the Milton Wong experimental theatre is close by at SFU woodward's and just recently opened.

The Fei and Milton Wong Experimental Theatre is set to open in early 2010 when SFU’s School for the Contemporary Arts relocates from the Burnaby campus to the new Woodward’s development in downtown Vancouver. With a flexible seating arrangement that can accommodate myriad stage configurations and audiences of up to 450, the intimate black-box theatre will be a welcome addition to the city’s cultural scene.

http://www.sfu.ca/pamr/media_release..._02120903.html

[EastVanMark]

By Jessica Werb, April 13, 2011

Anger and disappointment are greeting the loss of Vancouver’s historic Pantages Theatre, which is now under demolition.

“I’m sad because we put a whole lot of energy into something that was really, really important to the Downtown Eastside, that everybody seemed to support,” said Peter Fairchild, former president and chair of the Pantages Theatre Arts Society, which waged a long battle to save the doomed theatre. “And I’m angry because we almost had a deal with the city and it fell apart.…We were so close, with so much support for it.”

The city quietly issued a demolition permit on March 18 to the theatre’s owner, developer Marc Williams, whose goal to restore the historic theatre—the oldest remaining Pantages theatre in North America—was thwarted in October 2008 after fractious dealings with the city. Williams, with the support of the Pantages Theatre Arts Society, had initially sought a bonus density transfer to fund the theatre’s restoration, but when the city placed a moratorium on such transfers, he hammered out a deal to have the city purchase the theatre outright. That deal collapsed when the city requested a feasibility study, causing more delays during which time the theatre deteriorated beyond repair.

Charles Barber, artistic director of City Opera Vancouver, which was to have been a resident company at the theatre, laid the blame for the venue’s loss on city staff. “The city had every opportunity to do the right thing. At every opportunity they chose to do the wrong thing,” he said. “Twenty years from now, people will wonder how the city could have been so stupid. The developer never asked for anything more than air—heritage bonus density transfer, that’s all he ever asked for.…This is unforgivable.”

Barber and Fairchild said they don’t harbour any resentment toward Williams for bringing the theatre down, noting that it had become a safety hazard. “The city kicked him in the teeth at every opportunity,” said Barber. “It is disgusting how they treated him.”

Vision Vancouver city councillor Heather Deal said the city hired a heritage consultant to retrieve items of value before the demolition began last month. “They’ve got about 25 of the plaster ornaments they were able to take out of the building and they’ve been saved,” she said. “They did extensive documentations, did rubbings and cataloguing and all kinds of things.” She added: “It is unfortunate. The time to save it has passed and has been a couple of years now. It was beyond saving when we [Vision Vancouver] came in.”

Don Luxton, president of Heritage Vancouver, which in 2009 put the Pantages at the top of its list of endangered sites in Vancouver, said he’s concerned that the freeze on density transfers could place other historic theatres in jeopardy.

“We only have so many opportunities like this,” he said. “Not only is it the loss of a historic site, but it’s a historic interior, it’s a historic public gathering place. We don’t have many left and now the Hollywood is for sale, the Ridge is for sale, we’re losing all of the local and neighbourhood theatres. Can the rest be far behind when there’s so much economic pressure on these sites? We’re just afraid we’re going to lose them all.”

http://www.straight.com/article-3863...tre-demolished

[EastVanMark]

From the Pantages Theatre Arts Society about the would-have-been developer:

"Marc Williams has an extensive background in innovative heritage restoration and conversion projects, the most recent of which is the Koret Lofts in Gastown. The Koret Lofts is Vancouver’s first commercial work/live building of its kind. Previous heritage conversion projects of Mr. Williams’ with Worthington Properties are located in downtown Edmonton, including the city’s first federal RRAP housing project transformed from a century-old brick warehouse into affordable housing units. The innovation in this project included a co-gen system providing free electricity, heat, and hot water to the tenants.
Mr. Williams acquired the theatre and adjacent properties in 2005 with the vision of restoration and development of affordable housing for the neighbourhood, in addition to the new theatre lobbies and Black Box Studio, which he targets for completion by 2010"

[EastVanMark]

What's even worse about all this is that it looks like they won't even be keeping the facade of the building. The city managed to keep up the facades of far less noteworthy buildings in Gastown, yet could not or more accurately would not do anything for this significant site.

[xd_1771]

Seattle seems to be doing a much better job than Vancouver at keeping its historical districts right now...

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Vision Vancouver city councillor Heather Deal said the city hired a heritage consultant to retrieve items of value before the demolition began last month. “They’ve got about 25 of the plaster ornaments they were able to take out of the building and they’ve been saved,” she said. “They did extensive documentations, did rubbings and cataloguing and all kinds of things.” She added: “It is unfortunate. The time to save it has passed and has been a couple of years now. It was beyond saving when we [Vision Vancouver] came in.”

Bullshit. Another Vision lie.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Bullshit. Another Vision lie.

Did you happen to notice how she tried to make it seem okay by saying among other things they had "did rubbings and cataloguing and all kinds of things"etc etc....as if that somehow makes up for the needless, pointless loss

[SpongeG]

they were supposed to film xmen there a few years ago but they had to move it to a church on burrard due to the unsafe conditions inside the theatre

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Did you happen to notice how she tried to make it seem okay by saying among other things they had "did rubbings and cataloguing and all kinds of things"etc etc....as if that somehow makes up for the needless, pointless loss

Yeah. "Its too bad we lost a true piece of Vancouver heritage and a performance space, but at we have some great mouldy plaster ornaments that will sit in the Museum of Vancouver basement forever, plus some swell rubbings".

[delboy]

I'm all for preserving the past and heritage, but other than it's historical relevance, it was hardly a master piece worthy of preservation. I probably walked past it for a decade and never even noticed it. Frankly it was an unremarkable eye sore.

Not saying that it didn't have it's place and was not worthy of savng, but I can't see what the fuss is about. The problem with such spaces is that re-purposing is problematic and not sure if another theatre was warranted. There were hundreds of similar sites torn down across the UK as they had fallen into disrepair. I can remember at lest 4 in my home town (manchester) that were torn down.

[mezzanine]

IMO this was the right decision. Worhtington properties was asking for an extrordinary amount of support not only from the city, but was also relied on agreements from Victoria and Ottawa to make this feasable.

However, the developer and Society requested that the City cover close to the full costs of the theatre project, estimated at $30-40 million. This is an extraordinary amount to attempt to address through density or other municipal tools; as a frame-of-reference, the usual heritage amount on a project addressed through on-site density or transfer has been in the realm of one to four million dollars, and amounts of $10 million are virtually unprecedented. A density approach involving $30-40 million would significantly impact the City’s ability to achieve other heritage projects elsewhere and/or other public benefits and amenities (including other cultural and recreation opportunities) usually achieved through density.

A possible housing component has also been contemplated for a future phase and is estimated at an additional $30 million, over and above the $30—40 million discussed above. 100% of the funding to develop and operate such a housing component would need to be provided from the Provincial and/or Federal levels of government, as is usually the case.

An additional challenging aspect of the proposal, was the developers request that the City facilitate this density approach through sale of a strategic City-owned downtown property asset through a “sole-source” disposition, outside of the City’s required competitive bid process. This would be for a set price anticipated to be less than what a competitive bidding process would achieve. Further, that the developer be allowed to rezone the land in question for residential condos, despite the need for the land for critical future job space to help address the downtown’s identified job-space shortfall predicted in the future. They further requested that the residential development be excluded from contributing development cost levies and other community amenity contributions.

http://www.francesbula.com/developer...pantages-deal/

I am unsure why people have regard and trust in Worthington Properties, especially since a large reason the pantages rotted away was because they neglected to fix a hole in its roof.

“[Dan] White has established himself as an Alberta developer who specialized in distressed property sales. His company flourished during the West’s robust real estate market. Through Worthington Properties, he stepped into the Vancouver real estate market, developing Koret Lofts in the Downtown Eastside. Worthington also bought Vancouver’s Pantages theatre to redevelop it.

However, in the 1990s, White was a prime target in a joint Vancouver police-RCMP investigation into a vicious criminal ring. Further, he was identified in documents tabled in a separate U.S. proceeding that linked him with former Vancouver lawyer Martin Chambers in an illicit cigarette scheme. Chambers, notorious for being both brilliant and criminal, is now serving 15 years in a Florida prison for money laundering.

White acknowledged he had been convicted, but said he has turned his back on that page of his life.”

http://www.vancouversun.com/business...390/story.html

And the latest update – on Tuesday, Worthington Properties had a fire at the building which houses its offices in downtown Edmonton, Alberta. The fire caused caused $3.5 million dollars of damage. Edmonton police have said the fire was deliberately set.

http://foresttalk.com/index.php/2009...ces-burn-down/

[jlousa]

How about Worthington's treatment of the Mackenzie Mill it bought at firesale prices, it then failed to pay it's workers and the BC government had to step in and pay to savage the town due to an immenient risk of a chorline dioxide diaster. How anyone can say these company had anyone's best interests in mind except their owns is beyond me. They were asking a ransom in density from the city. The city did the right thing here.

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjourna...9-7f3bb86147be

[SFUVancouver]

I think it is a real shame that the Pantages was allowed to deteriorate to the stage where it needed to be demolished. It strikes me as a case of demolition through neglect little different than countless other heritage buildings across the continent that have been pulled down despite immense heritage merit.

With all of that said, the developer was asking for pretty substantial assistance from the City which went against Council policy to limit that amount of heritage density that could be sold into the Heritage Density Bank. The problem that has come about is landing that density into new development sites throughout the city, especially when most of the candidate sites going forward are going to have to be outside of the downtown core where siting significant heritage density transfers can be done with greater ease. When proposed buildings that incorporate their 10% heritage density bonus are staunchly opposed for the very height and building mass that the heritage density transfer adds, the result is an inability to draw down on the density bank and an ever accruing surplus. The Council policy that temporarily prohibits transferring heritage density off site unless a recipient site and buyer are already identified was brought in to reduce the rate of accrual of heritage density in the bank.

I think that some heritage buildings, including the Pantages, are going to be victims of this policy while it is in place and that we will lose them. But with that said, the Pantages was always going to be an exceptionally costly restoration project and its ongoing operation after the fact would be very shaky. There is simply a huge difference in the financial viability of restoring a theatre like the Pantages to regular operation compared to something like the restoration of the Stanley Theatre by the Arts Club Theatre Company with the sale of that building's heritage density to Wall Financial for their One Wall Centre tower. Throw in the need for the City to finance 100% of the restoration via heritage density instead of a previous maximum of 33% for the City's entire contribution and the additional hurdle of having to sort of the financing of a social housing project to make the whole thing palatable to the DTES gatekeepers and you have a nightmare of a project. Not withstanding all of the details, I still think that the loss of the Pantages is a minor tragedy for the city and I think it could have been a good influence on the neighbourhood, especially if something like SFU Woodwards could have been brought in to provide ongoing programming instead of relying on the occasional concert and City Opera's small annual offering of shows.

One bright spot from the whole affair is that the City has become more flexible on its financing options for cultural facilities using heritage density transfers. The York Theatre on Commercial Drive was spared from destruction at the 11th hour when City Council agreed to allow its restoration to proceed with 100% financing through a very generous heritage density transfer arrangement. The deal that was struck learned from the countless problems with the Pantages and required that (1) an established top tier local arts organization would take responsibility for operating and programming the restored 650 seat theatre, (2) an established top tier local developer would commit to landing the density in a forthcoming development project, and (3) an established top tier local architecture firm would be attached to the project to ensure a sympathetic restoration and first rate modern addition to the theatre. For the York Theatre the arts organization that agreed to step in is the Vancouver East Cultural Society (The Cultch). The developer is Wall Financial, who has the most experience in Vancouver in this sort of arrangement with a track record that includes the Stanley Theatre paired with One Wall Centre, Orpheum Theatre paired with Capitol Residences, and the new Vancouver Playhouse offices, production shop, and 250-seat theatre paired with Wall Centre False Creek. Lastly, the architecture team attached to the project is Henriquez and Partners, who most recently did Woodwards.