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  #1  
Old Posted: Jul 8, 2010, 11:28 PM
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The SSP Downtown Population Research Project

How many people live in your city's downtown?

As this recent thread and every other on the subject in the history of SSP has shown, that question is virtually impossible to answer. There is no overriding national or international standard, and numbers from disparate sources such as Business Improvement Districts cannot be trusted. In fact, nobody can even seem to agree on the definition of just what constitutes a "downtown".

However, if it were possible to agree, the US census bureau does make very fine grained information available on its website. If we can agree to some rules, then it is possible to produce something approximating an apples-to-apples comparison list for US cities. Yes, there will be some level of subjectivity involved, but by using a single data source and making everything open to peer review, we can produce something that at least approximates a good list.

Edit: Ground rules moved to 2nd post, population list moved up here.

American Downtown Population List
Incomplete and subject to change.
Central cities of urbanized area > 1,000,000 are in bold. List of urbanized areas available on wiki.
  1. New York Midtown: 46,378
  2. Chicago: 42,563
  3. New York Downtown: 22,732
  4. Seattle: 20,385
  5. Miami: 17,159
  6. Washington: 16,814
  7. Minneapolis: 13,645
  8. Philadelphia: 13,250
  9. Portland: 10,494
  10. San Diego: 9,278
  11. Milwaukee: 8,915
  12. Cleveland: 8,433
  13. Phoenix: 6,851
  14. Birmingham: 6,797
  15. Denver: 6,702
  16. Houston: 6,678
  17. Atlanta: 6,418
  18. Austin: 6,241
  19. Las Vegas: 6,061
  20. Honolulu: 6,041
  21. Sacramento: 5,962
  22. Salt Lake City: 5,939
  23. Saint Paul: 5,609
  24. Pittsburgh: 5,222
  25. Newport News: 4,969
  26. Riverside: 4,845
  27. San Jose: 4,791
  28. Saint Petersburg: 4,741
  29. East Lansing: 4,614
  30. Jacksonville: 4,543
  31. Columbus: 4,374
  32. Cincinnati: 4,303
  33. Richmond: 3,926
  34. Fort Lauderdale: 3,817
  35. Portsmouth: 3,542
  36. Indianapolis: 3,481
  37. Saint Louis: 3,392
  38. Santa Barbara: 3,219
  39. Long Beach: 3,113
  40. Boise: 3,093
  41. Norfolk: 2,881
  42. Toledo: 2,735
  43. Hampton: 2,725
  44. Providence: 2,678
  45. Huntsville: 2,651
  46. Hagerstown: 2,307
  47. Dallas: 2,198
  48. Dayton: 2,129
  49. Frederick: 1,906
  50. New Orleans: 1,794
  51. Montgomery: 1,677
  52. Anchorage: 1,458
  53. Asheville: 1,351
  54. San Bernadino: 1,188
  55. Roanoke: 874
  56. Tampa: 709
  57. Orlando: 700
  58. Charlottesville: 688

Canadian Cities
Not comparable to American list due to 6 year time difference and more fine-grained geographic boundaries.

Prepared by edmontonenthusiast
  • Vancouver: 26,800
  • Edmonton: 14,787
  • Winnipeg
  • Calgary: 11,225
  • Saskatoon: 3,088
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Last edited by Cirrus; Jul 28, 2010 at 9:01 PM.
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  #2  
Old Posted: Jul 8, 2010, 11:28 PM
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Edit: Moving the ground rules to the 2nd post so it's easier to see the list.

I hereby officially propose that we come up with a list of US downtown populations, here in this thread, using the following source and ground rules:

1) We will compile here in this thread a list of downtown populations, as best as can be determined, using ONLY census tract data from the 2000 Census (the most recent nationally-produced data available at that fine a level of detail). That is, we will determine which census tracts constitute a city's downtown, then add up the populations of those tracts to reach a total for each city. (Yes, I am aware that the 2000 Census is dreadfully obsolete and that every city has seen tremendous growth downtown. There's nothing we can do about that until 2010 Census numbers come out, which will be at least a year from now. We will have to make do.)

2) To have your city included in the official SSP list, you MUST show all the data you use to come up with the total number for your city's downtown, including the list of census tracts you use (and ideally a map showing them). This will ensure that other SSP members can review your work and comment on accuracy. Numbers submitted that do not include a list of census tracts will NOT be accepted.

3) For the purposes of this thread, the word "downtown" shall strictly be defined as "the part of a city that is dominated by commercial and institutional uses at a scale much greater than the surrounding neighborhoods, and in which there is a contiguous area where residential development blends seamlessly with regionally significant commercial, or does not exist at all". For the purposes of this thread, the word "downtown" shall NOT include your city's central residential neighborhoods. Dense residential neighborhoods are NOT downtown, even if they have commercial "main streets" running through them, or other local-serving stores. This thread is about your city's immediate central business district, NOT its "greater downtown area". When deciding which census tracts to use when compiling numbers for your city, please make every effort to cut out neighborhoods that are primarily bedroom communities or secondary activity centers (such as uptown districts), even if they are very dense. "Core population" and "downtown population" are NOT the same thing; we are studying the latter here, not the former.

4) Please follow the processes shown below to determine your city's downtown population:

For American cities:
(Scroll down for Canadian.)
  1. Click this link to go to the US Census Bureau American FactFinder thematic map maker. We will use that program to generate our geographic borders and population numbers.
  2. Highlight "Census 2000 Summary File 1 (SF 1) 100-Percent Data" and click "Next".
  3. Under the heading "Select a geographic type", use the drop-down menu to select "..... County". It is the 5th item from the top.
  4. Under the heading "Select a state", use the drop-down menu to select your state.
  5. Under the heading "Select a geographic area and click 'Show Result'", select the county in which your city is located, then click the "show Result >" button.
  6. A pop-up will appear with a rotating "loading" graphic. Wait for it to load. Unfortunately, the website can sometimes be very slow.
  7. Eventually, a new page will load with a map of the county you selected. It will look something like this:

    (This is Denver, by the way.)


  8. Now we will need to modify the map to show us the information we need. To do this, first select the "zoom in button" as circled on the image below, and click on downtown on the map to zoom in to it. Continue zooming in until you are all the way into downtown, which should be at either the "7 miles across" or "2.8 miles across" level.


  9. Once you are zoomed in to downtown, switch the display from "County Subdivision" to "Census Tract", as shown on the image below:


  10. Now the map is displaying census tracts. Hooray! The colors don't concern us, but FYI the darker green indicates a larger numerical population (raw population, NOT density). The next step will be to make sure boundaries between census tracts are shown. This is important because we wouldn't want to accidentally not count one. To turn on boundaries, click "Boundaries and features" in the upper left, as shown in the image below:


  11. A pop-up will appear with a table. Under the "Boundary" heading, find and check "2000 Census Tract". It is the 7th item down the list. Once that it checked, click the "Update" button in the upper right corner of the pop-up window.
  12. Now your map looks like this next image. Note the red lines delineating the boundaries between tracts.


  13. Now we are ready to start gathering data. To do this, Click on the "i", as shown below:


  14. Once the "i" is selected, clicking on the map itself will cause a pop-up to appear with information about that census tract. Click on each census tract that you think reasonably makes up your city's downtown, and record BOTH its tract number and the population residing there. In the example below, the tract number is "17.01" and the population is "2,225".


  15. Record tract and population data for all census tracts you think comprise downtown. For Denver, I think it is reasonable to include three tracts:

    Code:
    TRACT	POPULATION
    17.01	2,225
    17.02	2,005
    26.01	2,472
    
    TOTAL DOWNTOWN POPULATION: 6,702
  16. If others here disagree with my boundaries for downtown Denver, we can debate it and come to a decision. Unless someone disagrees, the number for downtown Denver shall be 6,702.
  17. That information is the bare minimum that we will accept for inclusion of your city in the list. Providing it ensures your city's inclusion (scroll to the next post for the official list so far).
  18. If possible, provide a map of the census tracts you included in your count. This is not strictly required, however it makes reviewing your information easier. I won't go through instructions for precisely how to do this, but here is an example I created using photoshop. It clearly shows which three tracts I counted as "downtown":



For Canadian cities:

(Thanks vid)

Statcan's maps are easy to use, but require a lot of clicking and load slowly.

Statistics Canada Community Profiles 2006 (Here is the link for 2001's profiles.)

Step 1: Type in the name of the city

Step 2: Select the one that has (City) in brackets after the name, that gets you closest to downtown

Step 3: On the left, under the blue menu called "CITYNAME (C)", click 'map'

Step 4: Zoom in to at least the second zoom level

Step 5: On the bottom right of the menu at the bottom, click "census tracts". (If you go to page two of that menu, there is an option called "dissemination areas" on the bottom centre; this is a more exact area but you can only get population statistics from it)

Step 6: Select "identify" on the menu on the left

Step 7: Click on the map to highlight a tract. On the right, below the thumbnail map, the census tract number (5##0###.##), population and private dwelling count is displayed.

Step 8: For more detailed info, from ethnic backgrounds to percentage of the population commuting by bicycle, click "additional data" (right most option on the menu bar below the map), and click the first link, "census tract profiles - 00##.##"; it will bring you to a page like this.

I recommend using Google Maps and a spreadsheet to assist you in deciding which tracts to include and totalling up the information. Note that our Census doesn't record how many people work in a tract--at least not public--so you won't be able to get employment population figures, though you can find out how many residents are employed and, I think, how far they travel to work.
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Last edited by Cirrus; Jul 13, 2010 at 5:02 PM.
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  #3  
Old Posted: Jul 8, 2010, 11:30 PM
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Is this just for US cities? I don't think the US Census Bureau will have stats on Edmonton .

*Should change name to SSP American Downtown Population Research Project*

::: Moderator's note: Since we've started including Canadian cities, I'm changing the title back :::

Last edited by Cirrus; Jul 11, 2010 at 5:51 PM. Reason: good idea
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  #4  
Old Posted: Jul 8, 2010, 11:46 PM
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Downtown Houston:

Total Persons

Geography: Census Tract 1000, Harris County, Texas
Value: 6,678 Total Persons

(Harris County, Texas: Value: 3,400,578 Total Persons )
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  #5  
Old Posted: Jul 9, 2010, 12:35 AM
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I would suggest that if Canadians are going to take part in this, use census Dissemination Areas instead of Census Tracts. They're more refined in area.
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Old Posted: Jul 9, 2010, 1:14 AM
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Why does this even matter?

There are parts of some cities far from the primary CBD that are more urban than the CBDs of other cities. There are cities where "downtown" isn't really the center of anything (see: LA). What's the point?
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  #7  
Old Posted: Jul 9, 2010, 2:10 AM
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Philadelphia, PA

Map of Center City:



Gray areas are six census tracts used for total:



Tract 2 - 1,362
Tract 3 - 2,570
Tract 4 - 4,313
Tract 5 - 1,126
Tract 6 - 1,315
Tract 7 - 2,564

Downtown Population - 13,250

I included only the tracts that contain what can fairly be called the CBD and ultimately did not include Old City though arguments can be made for its inclusion.
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Old Posted: Jul 9, 2010, 2:18 AM
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Sorry dude but that is getting way to specific. Anyone could argue that downtown Philly goes all the way from river to river. To not include the Delaware Riverfront and South Street, etc really does not capture the entire "downtown".
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  #9  
Old Posted: Jul 9, 2010, 2:23 AM
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How about adding acreage? The maps are a good start but acreage would add a qualitative note.
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Old Posted: Jul 9, 2010, 2:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
Sorry dude but that is getting way to specific. Anyone could argue that downtown Philly goes all the way from river to river. To not include the Delaware Riverfront and South Street, etc really does not capture the entire "downtown".
Of course it doesn't. And Center City District would argue that both of us woefully underestimate what comprises Center City. That's the whole point of this exercise - I'm following Cirrus' rubric by keeping as close to the traditional CBD as I can within the confines of the census tracts. "Downtown" is much larger than what I've shown but that isn't exactly what we're doing here.

Do you think that I of all the people on this forum am unaware of what comprises Downtown Philadelphia?
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Old Posted: Jul 9, 2010, 1:48 PM
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Geography: Census Tract 1, Buncombe County, North Carolina
Value: 1,351 Total Persons

(Buncombe County, North Carolina: Value: 206,330 Total Persons )

This doesn't include any of the surrounding residential neighborhoods because the census tracts that include the bonafide downtown residential streets also include areas that wouldn't be considered downtown at all.
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Old Posted: Jul 9, 2010, 2:57 PM
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The Census tracts for Miami sure are drawn weird. Tracts 67.01 and 37.02 seem to include the mouth of the Miami River area (the heart of Downtown Miami) yet seem to also span Biscayne Bay to also include the Port of Miami and all the way to Key Biscayne and South Beach across the bay. 67.02 includes part of the Brickell Finiancial District but also extends south west to include a single family residential area.

Tract 67.01 - 9,166 (includes the heart of downtown but also non-downtown areas)
Tract 67.02 - 3,505
Tract 36.01 - 1,896
Tract 37.01 - 2,400
Tract 37.02 - 2,088 (includes the heart of downtown but also non-downtown areas)
Tract 34 - 2,797

Total: 21,852
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  #13  
Old Posted: Jul 9, 2010, 3:27 PM
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I think that like you said, the 2000 census is extremely obsolete, makes this kind of a futile (but interesting) exercise. St. Louis, Kansas City, and i'm sure many others have seen ALL appreciable residential growth downtown in the years 2001-2010.
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Old Posted: Jul 9, 2010, 3:41 PM
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If I count Chicago from Chicago Ave down to Roosevelt, and the lake to the river (plus the immediate west loop area to Halsted as well as the immediate lakefront area up to Delaware) I get:

817: 1,867
815: 3,209
814: 9,587
818: 2,762
813: 5,834
3201: 5,305
3202: 855
3205: 6,727
3204: 575
2819: 3,520

Total: 40,241

Roughly 2.5 square miles.
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Old Posted: Jul 9, 2010, 4:06 PM
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I calculated population for a few different geographic definitions, using 2000 Census and a 2007 private market estimate.

First, the Chicago Central Area, generally defined as bounded by Division, Halsted, Roosevelt, Clark, Cermak, and the lake:

2000 pop: 75,877
2007 pop: 98,706 (est.)

Then, there are the official Chicago Community Area definitions shown here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_areas_of_Chicago

Loop Community Area
2000 pop: 16,388
2007 pop: 19,567 (est.)

Near South Side Community Area
2000 pop: 9,509
2007 pop: 16,452 (est.)

Near West Side Community Area
2000 pop: 46,419
2007 pop: 54,210 (est.)

Near North Side Community Area
2000 pop: 72,811
2007 pop: 79,240 (est.)
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  #16  
Old Posted: Jul 9, 2010, 6:07 PM
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Using the most strict definitions, for Portland:
Census Tract - Population
51 - 3612
54 - 2034
56 - 3753
Total - 9399

Tracts that include part of downtown, but are not wholly contained in the CBD:

57 - 2408
52 - 3878
50 - 690

Expanded total : 16375
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  #17  
Old Posted: Jul 9, 2010, 6:22 PM
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And for Jacksonville, FL

Census Tract - Population
18 - 766
17 - 746
5 - 1124
8 - 1907
Total - 4543

10 - 3999 (this one is strange because part of it definitely is downtown, and the rest you could make a decent argument....I just don't know how much of this number should be included.

Total 8542
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  #18  
Old Posted: Jul 9, 2010, 7:00 PM
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Quote:
Why does this even matter?
Why do any lists matter? It's interesting to some of us. That's reason enough.

Quote:
the 2000 census is extremely obsolete, makes this kind of a futile
At the very least it's a good baseline. We can do it again a year from now with 2010 data and be able to see growth.
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Old Posted: Jul 9, 2010, 7:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VivaLFuego View Post
I calculated population for a few different geographic definitions, using 2000 Census and a 2007 private market estimate.

First, the Chicago Central Area, generally defined as bounded by Division, Halsted, Roosevelt, Clark, Cermak, and the lake:

2000 pop: 75,877
2007 pop: 98,706 (est.)

Then, there are the official Chicago Community Area definitions shown here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_areas_of_Chicago

Loop Community Area
2000 pop: 16,388
2007 pop: 19,567 (est.)

Near South Side Community Area
2000 pop: 9,509
2007 pop: 16,452 (est.)

Near West Side Community Area
2000 pop: 46,419
2007 pop: 54,210 (est.)

Near North Side Community Area
2000 pop: 72,811
2007 pop: 79,240 (est.)
That might be the central area, but Cermak and Halsted are pushing it for downtown. Using the conditions Cirrus laid out plus pyschological barriers, I would consider downtown this: Roosevelt to the South, Division to the North and the Lake to the East. The Western boundaries is where it gets tricky. Wells is the western boundary up to Wolf Point, in which downtown extends west to the the Kennedy expressway, then when the expressway meets Congress, the border is pushed back east to Clark, all the way to Roosevelt.
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Old Posted: Jul 9, 2010, 7:07 PM
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What I consider "downtown Dallas" is everything inside and touching the Woodall Rodgers/Mixmaster loop. By my definition, the downtown Dallas population is 12,837, but that includes a couple of tracks that are mostly downtown, but also lop outside and it doesn't include anything along the Trinity, some of which is downtown, but a vast majority of which is not.
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