HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     
Welcome to the SkyscraperPage Forum

Since 1999, the SkyscraperPage Forum has been one of the most active skyscraper enthusiast communities on the web. The global membership discusses development news and construction activity on projects from around the world, alongside discussions on urban design, architecture, transportation and many other topics. Welcome!

You are currently browsing as a guest. Register with the SkyscraperPage Forum and join this growing community of skyscraper enthusiasts. Registering has benefits such as fewer ads, the ability to post messages, private messaging and more.

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > SSP: Local Vancouver > Transportation & Infrastructure

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2008, 9:16 AM
npinguy npinguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 229
Transit Fantasies

Updated Dec 29th:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...,0.917358&z=11

I've worked on this for a while.


Some overview:


1) Obviously there is no need for such an extensive system right now, or in the very immediate future.
However, the goal I had in mind when I worked on this is "Wouldn't it be nice if pretty much every part of the lower mainland was accessible by transit in under an hour?" You could be in Langley, think "I feel like going to that sushi restuarant I really like in Aberdeen", jump on a train and make it happen.

Now of course RIGHT NOW that seems like a stupid idea - you would simply drive and that's all there is to it. And that's the problem. Vancouver's roads and highways are already congested to the core, and it's only going to get worse. We're a driving city much like LA, but it's out of necessity not choice.

This extensive rapid transit network would allow a large number of people to live and work in the lower mainland and NOT NEED A CAR.

2) If that kind of ideal seems like a pipe dream, it isn't. This is what we're moving towards. 6 billion cars on one planet simply does not work. Forward-thinking communities already invest a lot in transit, and for the purposes of this fantasy scenario we're assuming that 50 years down the line Vancouver will too.

3) The other assumption with the system is that regional densification is only going to continue. The amount of single family houses will decrease as neighborhoods get denser. Some of the places the lines I drew go to would not need skytrain the way they are RIGHT NOW. But I can see some of them becoming denser in the near future.

4) There is no way to build this kind of infrastructure with all the different cities maintaining their own governance. While I understand the historical reasons for it, I think it's ultimately harmfull to everyone involved for Vancouver, Burnaby, Richmond, Surrey etc to all administer/govern/police themselves. The different cities should become "boroughs" of one large city.

5) Obviously this kind of project would require dozens of billions of dollars. So let's pretend money is no object. It's just more fun this way. Either we have a trillionaire philantropist that decided to gift the city with this, or the city has undertook this out of pollution-related necessity.

6) Although I'm calling this my Skytrain dream system, I fully realize skytrain might not be the best choice for every component of this. Just some form of rail that can achieve 80-100kph and goes independent of traffic (ie no traffic lights). Also, "skytrain", just like today, doesn't guarantee above-ground. It could be underground if that's what suits the area better.

7) If you suspect that the map/ideas are inspired a bit by the new york subway you are correct. That's intentional. Just like all except one New York subway lines pass through Manhattan, all except one line on this map pass through downtown. And the millenium line passes through false creek south which could conceivably grow to be connected to downtown and be an extension of the urban centre.

8) Lastly, bear in mind I know some areas of the lower mainland VERY well, and some not well at all. So you might look at some part of the map and think I'm insane/stupid/both to put a skytrain line there. If that is the case, PLEASE tell me so, and we can discuss it and I'll adjust the map. I'm just fine with constructive criticism

In fact all suggestions/ideas/criticisms are welcome.


Map-reading hints:
- I originally had station ideas on all lines (including current lines), but the map looked too cluttered and google separated things onto separate pages causing more pain.
- Now I only have TRANSFER stations on there.
- If two different coloured lines are running immediately next to each other, they're sharing the track the same way Expo/Millenium lines do right now. Obviously, later they'll separate
- If two stations are very very near each other, they're transfers stations. I didn't make them overlap too closely so that the separation is still visible at a higher zoom level.
- Finally, station locations and spacings are SOMEWHAT approximate. In some places you might think I put too many in one stretch, in another you may think I put too few. Either way let me know, I'm curious what you guys all think.

Last edited by npinguy; Feb 29, 2008 at 9:09 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2008, 9:22 AM
deasine deasine is offline
Vancouver Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,531
Hate to say this but we had a thread called "blue sky dreaming"

I can't believe you missed the southeast evergreen line option *winks* =P
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2008, 6:57 PM
raggedy13's Avatar
raggedy13 raggedy13 is offline
Dérive-r
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 4,396
I find it interesting that Ladner with about 22,000 people has a line and yet the White Rock/South Surrey area with about 80,000 doesn't have a line.
__________________
Terminal City
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2008, 7:36 PM
npinguy npinguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by raggedy13 View Post
I find it interesting that Ladner with about 22,000 people has a line and yet the White Rock/South Surrey area with about 80,000 doesn't have a line.
no need to be snotty. I admitted I may have made mistakes. I will take this under advisement
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2008, 8:11 PM
paradigm4 paradigm4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Surrey, BC
Posts: 654
Ya, this is highly biased. You're giving way too much to Van, and barely anything to the suburbs. You completely neglected east of Langley. And considering TransLink is also supposed to expand north, you'd think you could've included something for north of Horseshoe Bay.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2008, 8:27 PM
osirisboy's Avatar
osirisboy osirisboy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 2,186
interesting, the tri cities would need something though but as for vancouver it would be cool to see something like this. it would cost a freakin fortune though.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2008, 8:35 PM
LeftCoaster's Avatar
LeftCoaster LeftCoaster is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 7,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradigm4 View Post
Ya, this is highly biased. You're giving way too much to Van, and barely anything to the suburbs. You completely neglected east of Langley. And considering TransLink is also supposed to expand north, you'd think you could've included something for north of Horseshoe Bay.
Something N of Horseshoe bay?? To service all 200 people living in low density housing on the sea to sky? Who wouldnt take transit even if it existed?? The only thing I could ever see existing is commuter rail from Squamish, with a stop in Lions bay, terminating at the seabus... But that is so far off its not even worth discussing.

And I think E of Langley was neglected because as has been mentioned before that area would be better served by regional rail and rapidbus.

My only problems are with the West Van line... never would happen, even if the funding existed. The most I could ever see happening would be a terminus at Park Royal, and even that is a stretch. Also I dont like the SFU - Knight line... it seems a little haphazard and inefficent. I think there is a more simple way to service those two areas and tie them in with the other lines.

I am actually working on an identical map on google maps also, although I have included stations so it might take more time to load and pan through. Anyone else have a working map like this going?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2008, 10:09 PM
raggedy13's Avatar
raggedy13 raggedy13 is offline
Dérive-r
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 4,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by npinguy View Post
no need to be snotty. I admitted I may have made mistakes. I will take this under advisement
Sorry if I came off as sounding snotty. I thought saying it like that would sound less offensive, not more - my bad. You did say you were looking for constructive criticism though, yes?
__________________
Terminal City
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2008, 10:22 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
formerly tin²ium
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Lotusland
Posts: 5,225
Quote:
Originally Posted by raggedy13 View Post
Sorry if I came off as sounding snotty. I thought saying it like that would sound less offensive, not more - my bad. You did say you were looking for constructive criticism though, yes?
not that my $0.02 matters, but...

I personally didn't find it snotty. I just thought you pointing out what you felt was an oversight...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2008, 1:53 AM
Jared's Avatar
Jared Jared is offline
senior something
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 4,058
Why is there a volcano at Surrey Central?

All these suggestions assume money is no issue:
One key area that's missing connectivity IMO is the South Of Fraser, and in the eastern regions. A line connecting Ladner to, say Coquitlam, via Cloverdale, would make a lot of trips much quicker. It kinda silly that a Langley-Coquitlam commerter has to go through Columbia, or a Lanley-Lander commuter has to go all the way to 41st in Vancouver. I'd also extend the North Shore line along Second Narrows, down to Metrotown via Brentwood and BCIT. Also, the North East Sector Line should be interlined out to UBC.

Thats my $0.02, otherwise, nice map.
__________________
My Diagrams My Photos

I'm not the guy from Subway.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2008, 3:18 AM
David's Avatar
David David is offline
David
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Vancouver Island, British Columbia
Posts: 1,396
i'd like to throw in that PoCo's 60,000 residents (and the 24,000 that will be living on Coquitlam's Burke Mountain) are underrepresented too. Coquitlam Station Park n'Ride really isn't big enough to accomodate all of us..
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2008, 4:04 AM
SpongeG's Avatar
SpongeG SpongeG is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Coquitlam/Rainbow Lake
Posts: 26,141
that ladner station may as well loop round to scott road south stop doesn't look too far
__________________
belowitall
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2008, 5:15 AM
raggedy13's Avatar
raggedy13 raggedy13 is offline
Dérive-r
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 4,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by tintinium View Post
I just thought you pointing out what you felt was an oversight...
How so?
__________________
Terminal City
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2008, 7:13 AM
AKA-007 AKA-007 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North Shore/UBC
Posts: 90
I'm looking at the North Vancouver section of the Arbutus line. I don't think that trains like the Canada Line trains could handle the steepness. I don't know the exact grade, but it is unlikely that a line could run directly up Lower Lonsdale. (Esplanade to 13th area.)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2008, 7:40 AM
mr.x's Avatar
mr.x mr.x is offline
with glowing hearts
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: █♣█ Vancouver, British Columbia
Posts: 12,806
Unless there's MASSIVE densification in Vancouver, the city doesn't deserve that many lines. A streetcar line along 41st Avenue would be more ideal, and feasible, than an M-Line loop.

The SFU-Richmond Knight Line is completely unnecessary. The proposed Evergreen Line to the Tri-Cities is missing, and so is the WCE. More transit should be built out in the Fraser Valley/Surrey. Perhaps add an LRT or Expo extension down King George Highway to Newton.

It would also be better to have the Arbutus LRT/SkyTrain run under Burrard in downtown rather than merging with the Canada Line....not to mention that a merge is not possible given the depth and steep grades of the bored tunnel.

The Downtown Loop Line is not needed....something like the already City proposed Downtown Streetcar would be much more ideal.

A Hastings Line should either be LRT or a separate SkyTrain line, not an extension of the Expo Line. The Expo Line would simply be too long, and the quality of service could be compromised.

The North Shore extensions aren't too bad.


BTW, how do you even make these Google maps?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2008, 8:37 AM
deasine deasine is offline
Vancouver Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,531
Login (top right hand corner)

My Maps

Create New Maps

There are four buttons on the top and you can create lines from there and add objects.


I'm going to come up with my vision since you have inspired me =P
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2008, 10:19 AM
worldwide's Avatar
worldwide worldwide is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Vancouver - Ktown
Posts: 688
thats quite the dream... but really why would you need to travel 50km's to get sushi. i understand the dilema of good sushi, but we should be focused on reducing the need to travel all the time as opposed to just making destinations faster. mabey if we could find a way for drivers to pay by distance and parking wasnt free anywhere we could change the way people think about mobility.
__________________
Hieroglyphics yeah, to the kick and the snare like that, there, yeah, we keep it raw rare
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #18  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2008, 10:02 PM
npinguy npinguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.x2 View Post
Unless there's MASSIVE densification in Vancouver, the city doesn't deserve that many lines. A streetcar line along 41st Avenue would be more ideal, and feasible, than an M-Line loop.
I believe I admitted as much right off the bat.

Quote:
The SFU-Richmond Knight Line is completely unnecessary.
I hope it's not the naming that's tripping you up.
The SFU part of it simply indicates that SFU can be connected to downtown via rapid rail, meaning also transfers to other lines and ability to get to SFU quick from pretty much anywhere.

The Richmond aspect covers the eastern part of Richmond, and let me tell you as someone who's worked there for a year and a half and commuted from Vancouver, it IS needed. It's an area of massive commerical zones with massive parking lots. And the highway access is a nightmare even NOW with rush hour traffic moving at a CRAWL as everyone tries to get to and from work. I may have gotten a lot of things wrong on that map but that's not one of them.

Finally the Knight aspect is to give some rapid transit to the vancouver east side zone between cambie and kingsway which is massive and has terrible transit.


Quote:
The proposed Evergreen Line to the Tri-Cities is missing,
Look again, it's there.

Quote:
and so is the WCE. More transit should be built out in the Fraser Valley/Surrey. Perhaps add an LRT or Expo extension down King George Highway to Newton.
The WCE is commuter rail which I consider different from rapid transit skytrain/subway-like lines. That's also why there's nothing going to abbotsford and chilliwack. There's LARGE distances being covered with nothing in between - not something for a skytrain/subway like system to consider.

The Newton is an oversight that I haven't gotten to yet.

Quote:
It would also be better to have the Arbutus LRT/SkyTrain run under Burrard in downtown rather than merging with the Canada Line....not to mention that a merge is not possible given the depth and steep grades of the bored tunnel.
I very much like the idea of running it under Burrard, I disagree on the possibilities of a merge. Lots of more complicated engineering projects have been completed, and lots more complicated subway systems have interwinding tunnels.

Quote:
The Downtown Loop Line is not needed....something like the already City proposed Downtown Streetcar would be much more ideal.
I think it's nice. Plus in my mind the downtown of the future will be even MORE densified. West end still has too many low rises.

Quote:
A Hastings Line should either be LRT or a separate SkyTrain line, not an extension of the Expo Line. The Expo Line would simply be too long, and the quality of service could be compromised.
Good point.

The North Shore extensions aren't too bad.








Quick aside to someone who said they're working on their own map with stations:

That's how I started out too, but then I started noticing that new stations and lines I was adding were DISAPPEARING. I couldn't figure out what was going on until I realized that Google has a limit of 200 objects that you can place on one given map. After that it starts paging. So at the bottom of the panel on the left you can click on page 2, 3, etc. And that's just too much of a hassle. So I got rid of all but transfer stations.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #19  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2008, 1:12 AM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
formerly tin²ium
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Lotusland
Posts: 5,225
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.x2 View Post

A Hastings Line should either be LRT or a separate SkyTrain line, not an extension of the Expo Line. The Expo Line would simply be too long, and the quality of service could be compromised.
Why? The Expo line is perfectly designed to be extended and I don't see how QoS would be affected by a longer line. In addition, you get the added efficiencies of running one line instead of two.

You also create a one seat ride from anywhere on Hastings to various points downtown and are able to connect Gastown.

The only reason you would do it separate from the Expo line is if you ran it underneath Robson Street to serve the West End.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #20  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2008, 1:46 AM
npinguy npinguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 229
i've taken numerous people's ideas under advisement and version 2.0 will be out soon!

It's going to be better than ever.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
   
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > SSP: Local Vancouver > Transportation & Infrastructure
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 5:57 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.