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Old Posted Jul 18, 2010, 8:32 PM
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Footprint (150 Mile Radius) Population Indicator of the 13 Largest MSAs in US

There are 366 MSAs as defined by the US Census totaling over 257 million people (approximately 84% of total US Population). These MSAs ranged in population from New York (over 19 million) to Carson City, NV (over 55 thousand).

I analyzed the distance between each of the 13 largest MSAs in the US to all of the other 365 MSAs. By doing so, I was able to get an indication of the US population within any radius of the top 13 MSAs in the United States. The results for 150 mile radius are shown.

The results show the primary city of the 13 Largest MSAs and the estimated population within the radius. It also shows the number of MSAs within the radius. It also lists the top 6 MSAs in population within the radius.

For example, the largest population footprint indicator of the 13 largest MSAs is Philadelphia. Within an estimated 150 miles of Philadelphia MSA, an estimated 40 million people live. There are 21 other MSAs within the 150 radius and the 6 largest are New York, Philly (itself), DC, Baltimore, Bridgeport and Allentown.

Remember, the numbers are estimates (not exact) but does give an indication of population.
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(1) PHILADELPHIA..........39,712,877..........21 MSAs
  • New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA..........19,069,796
  • Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD..........5,968,252
  • Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV..........5,476,241
  • Baltimore-Towson, MD..........2,690,886
  • Bridgeport-Stamford-Norwalk, CT..........901,208
  • Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton, PA-NJ..........816,012

(2)NEW YORK CITY..........36,204,915..........23 MSAs
  • New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA..........19,069,796
  • Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD..........5,968,252
  • Providence-New Bedford-Fall River, RI-MA ..........1,600,642
  • Hartford-West Hartford-East Hartford, CT ..........1,195,998
  • Bridgeport-Stamford-Norwalk, CT..........901,208
  • Albany-Schenectady-Troy, NY..........857,592

(3)LOS ANGELES..........22,089,150..........6 MSAs
  • Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana, CA.......... 12,874,797
  • Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA.......... 4,143,113
  • San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos, CA.......... 3,053,793
  • Bakersfield, CA.......... 807,407
  • Oxnard-Thousand Oaks-Ventura, CA.......... 802,983
  • Santa Barbara-Santa Maria-Goleta, CA.......... 407,057

(4)WASHINGTON..........21,086,030..........23 MSAs
  • Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD.......... 5,968,252
  • Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV.......... 5,476,241
  • Baltimore-Towson, MD.......... 2,690,886
  • Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC.......... 1,674,498
  • Richmond, VA.......... 1,238,187
  • Harrisburg-Carlisle, PA.......... 536,919

(5)CHICAGO..........17,264,788..........27 MSAs
  • Chicago-Naperville-Joliet, IL-IN-WI.......... 9,580,567
  • Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis, WI.......... 1,559,667
  • Grand Rapids-Wyoming, MI.......... 778,009
  • Madison, WI.......... 570,025
  • Fort Wayne, IN.......... 414,315
  • Davenport-Moline-Rock Island, IA-IL.......... 379,066


(6)BOSTON..........13,270,044..........15 MSAs
  • Boston-Cambridge-Quincy, MA-NH.......... 4,588,680
  • Providence-New Bedford-Fall River, RI-MA.......... 1,600,642
  • Hartford-West Hartford-East Hartford, CT.......... 1,195,998
  • Bridgeport-Stamford-Norwalk, CT.......... 901,208
  • Albany-Schenectady-Troy, NY.......... 857,592
  • New Haven-Milford, CT.......... 848,006


(7)DETROIT..........12,923,763..........21 MSAs
  • Detroit-Warren-Livonia, MI .......... 4,403,437
  • Cleveland-Elyria-Mentor, OH.......... 2,091,286
  • Grand Rapids-Wyoming, MI.......... 778,009
  • Akron, OH.......... 699,935
  • Toledo, OH.......... 672,220
  • Youngstown-Warren-Boardman, OH-PA.......... 562,963

(8)SAN FRANCISCO..........11,710,219..........13 MSAs
  • San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont, CA.......... 4,317,853
  • Sacramento--Arden-Arcade--Roseville, CA.......... 2,127,355
  • San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA.......... 1,839,700
  • Stockton, CA.......... 674,860
  • Modesto, CA.......... 510,385
  • Santa Rosa-Petaluma, CA.......... 472,102


(9)ATLANTA..........10,763,686..........19 MSAs
  • Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, GA.......... 5,475,213
  • Birmingham-Hoover, AL.......... 1,131,070
  • Greenville-Mauldin-Easley, SC.......... 639,617
  • Augusta-Richmond County, GA-SC.......... 539,154
  • Chattanooga, TN-GA.......... 524,303
  • Montgomery, AL.......... 366,401

(10)HOUSTON..........8,472,843..........6 MSAs
  • Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown, TX.......... 5,867,489
  • Austin-Round Rock, TX.......... 1,705,075
  • Beaumont-Port Arthur, TX.......... 378,477
  • College Station-Bryan, TX.......... 212,268
  • Lake Charles, LA.......... 194,138
  • Victoria, TX .......... 115,396

(11)DALLAS..........7,852,442..........8 MSAs
  • Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX.......... 6,447,615
  • Killeen-Temple-Fort Hood, TX.......... 379,231
  • Waco, TX.......... 233,378
  • Longview, TX.......... 206,874
  • Tyler, TX.......... 204,665
  • Wichita Falls, TX.......... 147,421


(12)MIAMI..........7,150,911..........6 MSAs
  • Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL.......... 5,547,051
  • Cape Coral-Fort Myers, FL.......... 586,908
  • Port St. Lucie, FL.......... 406,296
  • Naples-Marco Island, FL .......... 318,537
  • Punta Gorda, FL.......... 156,952
  • Sebastian-Vero Beach, FL.......... 135,167


(13)PHOENIX..........5,729,829..........4 MSAs
  • Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ.......... 4,364,094
  • Tucson, AZ .......... 1,020,200
  • Prescott, AZ.......... 215,686
  • Flagstaff, AZ.......... 129,849
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  #2  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2010, 9:23 PM
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Interesting.

I bet you the "biggest" MSA in the U.S. would then be Trenton-Ewing (Mercer County, NJ), because you would capture the vast majority of everyone within 150 miles of both NYC and Philly.
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Old Posted Jul 18, 2010, 9:40 PM
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150 miles?!

I can leave the country, cross two others and enter the fourth!
Over 50 million people live in that kind of radius from where I live, which is a small 200,000 city (470,000 metro/"MSA").

Nice research, but 150 miles seems a bit too generous to be of practical use. As has been commented, you would capture the most population when you center in between NYC and Philly and not when centered on NYC itself which should be the baseline for any comparison imo. Seems a bit engineered to generate a certain result like this...
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Old Posted Jul 18, 2010, 9:49 PM
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Also, why only US population?

Seattle/Vancouver or San Diego/Tijuana don't count? No Windsor, etc for Detroit?

And I don't buy Phoenix in 13th place. I think both Columbus, OH and Orlando top it, and that's just if we're not including other MSA's that are already included in higher ranking spots (which you did do in your list).

EDIT- Indianapolis and Pittsburgh too and probably more that I'm missing right now...

Last edited by SHiRO; Jul 18, 2010 at 10:04 PM.
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Old Posted Jul 18, 2010, 10:33 PM
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^You'd get a similar thing with Sacramento - that would capture everything within the Bay Area, and get you more of the California Central Valley and Reno along with it.
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Old Posted Jul 18, 2010, 11:05 PM
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Yeah but Sacramento is already included in (8) San Fransisco and I left out all the MSA's that were already mentioned eventhough L41A himself did not in his list.
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Old Posted Jul 19, 2010, 1:01 AM
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Exactly how far is Providence from nYc? Driving wise, it's 180+ miles away. It makes more sense to drop it off and include New Haven's MSA (848,006)
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Old Posted Jul 19, 2010, 1:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Interesting.

I bet you the "biggest" MSA in the U.S. would then be Trenton-Ewing (Mercer County, NJ), because you would capture the vast majority of everyone within 150 miles of both NYC and Philly.
I only used the 13 largest MSAs and compared to the rest. I had to start somewhere. I may broaden it to the MSAs greater than 2 million.

For instance, I didn't include Charlotte, NC in my results here. Using my method, it's population footprint indicator for 150 mile radius is over 9.3 million (Greater than 4 of the 13 largest MSAs).

But you are right, Trenton-Ewing may have the largest population footprint surrounding it.
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Old Posted Jul 19, 2010, 1:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHiRO View Post
150 miles?!

I can leave the country, cross two others and enter the fourth!
Over 50 million people live in that kind of radius from where I live, which is a small 200,000 city (470,000 metro/"MSA").
Whoop de do. Good for you (I suppose).

Quote:
Originally Posted by SHiRO View Post
Nice research, but 150 miles seems a bit too generous to be of practical use. As has been commented, you would capture the most population when you center in between NYC and Philly and not when centered on NYC itself which should be the baseline for any comparison imo.
The research I did can be done with any radius. I just chose to show the 150 mile radius here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SHiRO View Post
Seems a bit engineered to generate a certain result like this...
NO. That would be petty - something like maybe you would do.

Last edited by SHiRO; Jul 19, 2010 at 6:27 PM.
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Old Posted Jul 19, 2010, 1:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L41A View Post
The research I did can be done with any radius. I just chose to show the 150 mile radius here.
Please explain why you chose this radius which seems a bit overly generous to say the least...

Quote:
NO. That would be petty - something like maybe you would do.

Which banned troll are you?



(btw this is an editted post. A far nicer one was here before I read your ridiculous response. I was just asking questions dude...)

Last edited by SHiRO; Jul 19, 2010 at 1:42 AM.
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Old Posted Jul 19, 2010, 1:44 AM
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It would probably make more sense to include Micropolitan Areas. For example, using Census 2000 data, the 21 Metropolitan Areas within 150 miles of Detroit had 12.977,281, but when you include the 28 Micropolitan Areas within 150 miles of Detroit you get a population of 14,683,009. Granted, that doesn't include the Canadian side which would add another 1.8 million to the total with the likes of London (484,738--includes Elgin County), Kitchener (438,515), Windsor (374,975), Sarnia (126,971), Chatham-Kent (107,709), Norfolk (104,670), Woodstock (99,270), and Stratford (73,675). That would bring the grand total to 16,493,532.

*edit* I accidently put Oxford County in the London "MSA" and Elgin County in the Woodstock "MSA" when it should be the other way around. I also added Kitchener, Norfolk, and Stratford to the Canadian "MSA"s within Detroit's 150 mile radius.

Last edited by hudkina; Jul 19, 2010 at 4:32 AM.
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Old Posted Jul 19, 2010, 1:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHiRO View Post
Also, why only US population?
Because I used the US Census Bureau and pulling estimates from Wikipedia or someone like you....statistical control may be lost. Anyway of the 13 largest MSAs, three go into another country in a 150 mile radius - Los Angeles, Detroit and Miami. Los Angeles would include Tijuana ( about 20 miles into Mexico). Detroit would include basically all 150 miles in the northeast quadrant of its radius of Canada. Miami would include parts of the Bahamas (Freeport but not Nausau).


Quote:
Originally Posted by SHiRO View Post
Seattle/Vancouver or San Diego/Tijuana don't count? No Windsor, etc for Detroit?

And I don't buy Phoenix in 13th place. I think both Columbus, OH and Orlando top it, and that's just if we're not including other MSA's that are already included in higher ranking spots (which you did do in your list).


EDIT- Indianapolis and Pittsburgh too and probably more that I'm missing right now...
Do you read? I said I used the 13 largest MSAs as the basis of comparison to the rest of 366 US Census Bureau-defined MSAs. Seattle, San Diego, Columbus and Orlando are not one of the 13 largest US MSAs.
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Old Posted Jul 19, 2010, 1:54 AM
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Quote:
Please explain why you chose this radius which seems a bit overly generous to say the least...
Overly generous for what? He doesn't seem to be saying that 150 miles is meaningful in any way, just that he found the statistic interesting. On those terms it is neither overly generous nor stingy. It is simply what it is.

It can only become generous or stingy if we assign some meaningful value to the statistic. If somebody comes along and claims that 150 miles approximates a city's "sphere of influence", for example, then that would be a topic of debate. But so far, I don't think anyone has done that.
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Old Posted Jul 19, 2010, 2:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hudkina View Post
It would probably make more sense to include Micropolitan Areas. For example, using Census 2000 data, the 21 Metropolitan Areas within 150 miles of Detroit had 12.977,281, but when you include the 28 Micropolitan Areas within 150 miles of Detroit you get a population of 14,683,009. Granted, that doesn't include the Canadian side which would add another 1.2 million to the total with the likes of London (502,455--includes Oxford County), Windsor (374,975), Sarnia (126,971), Chatham-Kent (107,709), and Woodstock (81,553). That would bring the grand total to 15,876,672.
I understand. But I didn't do this overnight. When I first started, I started comparing the 13 largest to the MSAs over 1 million. But that was leaving out to much population - so I expanded it to include all 366.

But point taken. I was surprised by Detroit. It gets beat up on this forum so much.
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Old Posted Jul 19, 2010, 2:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
Overly generous for what? He doesn't seem to be saying that 150 miles is meaningful in any way, just that he found the statistic interesting. On those terms it is neither overly generous nor stingy. It is simply what it is.

It can only become generous or stingy if we assign some meaningful value to the statistic. If somebody comes along and claims that 150 miles approximates a city's "sphere of influence", for example, then that would be a topic of debate. But so far, I don't think anyone has done that.
Thank You So Much Cirrus!

In fact, my analysis can easily be done in any radius by the use of macros I created. Plus, I used the term population indicator. I even emphasize the term in the original post. I didn't used that term for no reason. In addition, I stated it was an estimation. Furthermore, I stated it included about 84% of the US population which is composed of 366 MSAs. So it does leave out US towns and places with population less than 55,000.

It certainly wasn't my intention to say this was the definite population within any radius. I just thought it would be interesting to discuss or maybe share more of the analysis within any radius or additional MSAs. Maybe I was wrong. Moderators feel free to close.
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Old Posted Jul 19, 2010, 2:25 AM
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People often forget just how populated the "Rust Belt" still is, even after decades of population loss in certain areas. Detroit basically sits at the center with Chicago and Milwaukee to the west and Buffalo and Pittsburgh to the east.

BTW, if you include the 12 Micropolitan Areas within 150 miles of Boston on top of the 15 Metropolitan Areas already included, the population would jump to 13,902,461 using Census 2000 data. In other words, when Micropolitan Areas are included, Detroit jumps past Boston as far as this list particular list is concerned, that's especially true when you count the Canadian portion. (15.9 million vs 13.9 million)
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Old Posted Jul 19, 2010, 2:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
Overly generous for what? He doesn't seem to be saying that 150 miles is meaningful in any way, just that he found the statistic interesting. On those terms it is neither overly generous nor stingy. It is simply what it is.

It can only become generous or stingy if we assign some meaningful value to the statistic. If somebody comes along and claims that 150 miles approximates a city's "sphere of influence", for example, then that would be a topic of debate. But so far, I don't think anyone has done that.
Then what does "footprint" mean?

Common man, you are a statistics/maps guy like myself. 150 miles is a bit strange...why not make it 500 miles while we're at it...

Anyway, I'm done with this shit, have fun. This forum is beyond redemption, I've got better things to do...
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Old Posted Jul 19, 2010, 2:37 AM
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Originally Posted by L41A View Post
I just thought it would be interesting to discuss or maybe share more of the analysis within any radius or additional MSAs.
Yeah and with the first (critical) question you go apeshit and start hurling insults (I even posted a rather friendly post once I realized you took the 13 largest MSA's and that part of my question was answered).

I can't deal with this shit anymore. Any form of community we had here is thoroughly brought to shit and every other post becomes a fight. You guys have fun with that...
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Old Posted Jul 19, 2010, 2:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hudkina View Post
People often forget just how populated the "Rust Belt" still is, even after decades of population loss in certain areas. Detroit basically sits at the center with Chicago and Milwaukee to the west and Buffalo and Pittsburgh to the east.

BTW, if you include the 12 Micropolitan Areas within 150 miles of Boston on top of the 15 Metropolitan Areas already included, the population would jump to 13,902,461 using Census 2000 data. In other words, when Micropolitan Areas are included, Detroit jumps past Boston as far as this list particular list is concerned, that's especially true when you count the Canadian portion. (15.9 million vs 13.9 million)
I figured Detroit would jump Boston - because just using my estimation which leaves off the Canadian portion it was only 350k less than Boston. In addition, when the radius is expanded by a certain distance, Detroit climbs even further.
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Old Posted Jul 19, 2010, 4:11 AM
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Originally Posted by alex1 View Post
Exactly how far is Providence from nYc? Driving wise, it's 180+ miles away. It makes more sense to drop it off and include New Haven's MSA (848,006)
Using my method, Providence is 143 straight-line miles from NYC. If you use what Google Earth or Mapquest, etc use as the city center - the straight-line distance is approximately 150 miles. It's a relative distance between the MSAs, not the city itself.

New Haven is included. It's just not in the top 6 Largest when you include New York itself - its the 7th. For New York, there are 23 MSAs used for the calculation - just the 6 largest are listed.

Last edited by L41A; Jul 19, 2010 at 4:27 AM.
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