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  #41  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2010, 2:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulliver View Post
^^ Guy, I said I wasn't familiar with the area, I looked at the map and saw this: http://maps.google.ca/maps?client=fi...55404&t=h&z=15

Not exactly a nice walkable community. And compared to the area surrounding Edmonton City Centre Airport, yes it is industrial wasteland. Sorry...
Um...that picture isn't the Stapleton redevelopment. It's a commercial development that was built as the former airport closed. Show me how the actual current redevelopment immediately surrounds this picture? Edmonton City Centre Airport isn't close to 7.5 square miles either. Something as large as Stapleton isn't going to have all residential surrounding it on all 4 sides. I don't see City Centre surrounded by residential immediately on all 4 sides. Again, let's get educated and know what we are talking about when critiquing Stapleton. Why are you using a picture of an area of that isn't where the redevelopment is? Using a picture of a commercial development where no one lives? Come on... That's like me stating that City Centre's land isn't a walkable community because I see landing strips, airport terminals, and parking lots. Does anyone live at the airport? Well, no one lives in that commercial development area that you so conveniently took a picture of.

Show me an ENTIRE 7.5 square mile area of Edmonton that starts 6 miles outside of downtown....and let's see if it's an urban oasis....and then let me choose to take a google picture of a small area on the edges of the 7.5 square mile area (no where near where the actual development is taking place right now and it won't begin in those areas for 5 years or so) to try to prove my point that there's an industrial wasteland or sprawl... This is what some of you are doing.

The picture I see of the City Centre airport shows me that I see a very large "wasteland" dump of hundreds of abandoned train cars. I also see a large area of industrial (considering the size of the airport) to the SW of the airport. Interesting...and this is for a much smaller amount of airport land. But what? You're going to say that it's not redeveloped yet? Sounds like what I have been trying to get across. Let's see anyone redevelop an entire 7.5 square mile area in any city and let's see if it is urban oasis within 8 years. I also see a lot of single family surrounding the City Centre airport and the adjacent train dump wasteland..with single family lot sizes much larger than Stapleton. There's also a major mall right on the edge of City Centre. Hmm...and this is so much closer to downtown Edmonton than Stapleton is to Denver's downtown. It's very interesting how folks that are uneducated on Stapleton can critique what they see on googlemaps without knowing what they are talking about...or even realizing it's not part of the development...or even knowing what the plan is that we have kept to.

Again, a 7.5 square mile area TAKES TIME to develop. We are sticking to the plan with lots of density in the areas of development. This is not some small 200 acre development.
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Last edited by CONative; Aug 2, 2010 at 2:18 PM.
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  #42  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2010, 6:18 PM
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^ No offense, but I really don't care about the Stapleton redevelopment. I am sure it's very lovely. I was originally responding solely to Policy Wonks post where he posted the picture of that commercial development, and suggested the area around it is nothing like the area around ECCA, which it isn't.

This thread is about ECCA, and not Stapleton redevelopment, right?
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  #43  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2010, 6:38 PM
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Originally Posted by JayM View Post
Isn't that Airport used for Indy? If they close that airport there wont be anymore Indy there.
From what I understand, the Indy has its own sustainability issues. They've been through several sponsors since its inception, and its losing money. So, really, it could be the Edmoton Indy in Calgary or the Edmonton Indy in Vancouver pretty soon.
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  #44  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2010, 6:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Distill3d View Post
From what I understand, the Indy has its own sustainability issues. They've been through several sponsors since its inception, and its losing money. So, really, it could be the Edmoton Indy in Calgary or the Edmonton Indy in Vancouver pretty soon.
or perhaps read up on it some more.

It started off with CHAMP, now IRL, and has multiple sponsors for multiple reasons.

It has been run/produced by multiple groups, perhaps the wrong one most recently, and has huge overhead due to being a temporary course.

Crowds have not been the issue and while IRL does not release stats, I have worked it every year and crowd levels have been strong each year, even if lower totals due to organizer changes.

The Octane group (think F1 race guys) of Montreal have now relieved the City of Edmonton from running it which will immensely help in logistics, programming (both on and off site), and experience in running a viable race. They have a 3 yr contract which will take the race to 2013 at the very least...

I think that Edmonton will hold on to and grow the race weekend here and while I would love to see a return to Vancouver as a race fan, I do not believe it will be our race moving there in the near future.
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  #45  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2010, 4:56 PM
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Edmonton City Centre Airport closes runway 16/34

Closure leaves downtown airport with one runway

BY JOURNAL STAFF, EDMONTONJOURNAL.COM AUGUST 3, 2010 10:26 AM COMMENTS (3)


STORYPHOTOS ( 1 )



The city voted in 2009 to close City Centre Airport in stages over five to 10 years.
Photograph by: Photo Ed Kaiser, The Journal, Edmonton Journal
EDMONTON — Edmonton’s City Centre Airport (ECCA) is on its way to being one runway smaller.

Crews began the complex process of closing runway 16/34 Tuesday morning at the downtown airport. The decision to close the runway was made by city council in 2009, but the work had to wait until after July’s Honda Indy. As much of the work must occur when activity at the airport is minimal, the process will last into the fall.

The closure leaves the ECCA with one lone runway.

© Copyright (c) The Edmonton Journal


Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...#ixzz0vYxTtCkI
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  #46  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2010, 6:00 PM
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Closure of runway 16/34 at Edmonton City Centre Airport begins
Crews onsite at 0330 to begin closure process
August 3, 2010 (Edmonton, Alta.)-Edmonton Airports work crews were at Edmonton City Centre Airport (ECCA) early this morning to begin the process of closing runway 16/34.
"In order to ensure the safety of our crews and prevent disruption to operations, some of the work must happen when activity at the airport is minimal," explains Steve Maybee, Director of Airside Operations.
The work starts today with physical alterations to the airfield and runway. These alterations include placing barricades to prevent access to the runway and painting signage on the runway surface to signal clearly to pilots that the runway is closed.
"There is a protocol we must follow to close a runway," says Maybee. "This process is in place to ensure the safety of aircraft operators and tenants. It is vital that there be no ambiguity about the status of the runway once the closure process begins."
The airfield alterations will also ensure tenants have safe and clear access to the remaining runway, which is known as 12/30.
In 2009, City Council directed Edmonton Airports to close runway 16/34. The timing of closure was requested to be after Airfest (June) and the Honda Indy (July). In order to move forward on that direction, a GPS navigation system was installed on runway 12/30 (completed in June 2010). Because of post-Indy cleanup, this week is the first time Edmonton Airports has had the opportunity to begin the runway closure process. The work will continue into the fall.
-30-
Media Contacts:

Traci Bednard, Communications
c: 780 909 9554
e: tbednard@flyeia.com
w: www.flyeia.com
Sarah Meffen, Communications
c: 780 884 2966
e: smeffen@flyeia.com
w: www.flyeia.com

MEDIA BACKGROUNDER
Protocol for Runway Closure
The protocol for closing a runway consists of a number of steps to ensure safety and efficiency. The process steps fall under two main areas:
  • Notification
  • Physical alterations to airfield
Notification
  • Airport users and pilots are provided with communication about the runway closure in advance
  • Issuing of multiple Notices to Airmen (NOTAM) and updating of operational manuals
Physical Alterations
  • In order to ensure the safety of work crews and minimize disruption to air traffic at ECCA, some of the work on the physical alterations to the airfield and runway 16/34 began at 0330 on August 03, 2010.
  • The entire runway closure process, which will continue into the fall, includes the following tasks:
    • Deployment of cement barricades and orange safety barrels with lights at all access points to runway 16/34.
    • Deployment of two portable LED X signs at either end of the runway.
    • Painting of five large X's along the surface of the runway. Once these are complete, the portable signs will be removed.
    • Removal of runway directional signage.
    • NAV Canada equipment (i.e., Instrument Landing System) equipment will be powered down and removed.
    • Runway lights for 16/34 will be powered down and removed.
-30-
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  #47  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2010, 8:25 PM
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Never would have thought it took that long to close a runway. Most of them look like they've just replaced the numbers with an X.
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  #48  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2010, 9:21 PM
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Stapleton came out with a good plan. I spent a lot of time looking into the process and the end-product about a year ago. Give it time, but the residential component is already turning out very nice.

As for this gong-show originated by 'EnvisionEdmonton'... don't even get me started. I wouldn't have a problem with the attempt to send this to plebiscite if they were honest with their facts and intensions. But the twisting of facts, straw man arguments and bold face lies to generate the response they want is what gets me upset.
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  #49  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2010, 10:27 PM
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I'm fairly sure that as the general public's now getting word about the runway closure already beginning, there'll be even less interest in people in wanting to sign the petition. That, along with getting banned from some festivals, will make it harder for Envison Edmonton to meet its goal of 80K signatures.

BTW, there's something about the city about to take legal action against that petition because it wasn't launched within 60 days of city council's decision to close the runway on July 8, 2009. That petition wasn't launched until about 7 weeks ago.
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  #50  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2010, 9:56 AM
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Leaked documents from Edmonton Airports estimate it will cost $45 million dollars to break the leases with the tenants at YXD, this is based on the assumption that they can reach settlements with the tenants and greater damages aren't reached in court.

This is David Miller and the Island Airport Bridge cancellation which ultimately cost tax payers $35,000,000 all over again, even though the City of Toronto insisted it would cost nothing.

Mandel: Stuck On Stupid. They are steamrolling ahead without so much as a good clue what it will cost or even a preliminary plan for the site. This isn't even at the spooky clipart cut-out people rendering stage.

That isn't the cost to close the airport, that isn't the cost to decommission and remediate the site, $45 million is just the cost to hopefully settle the leases with the tenants out of court.

It could cost Edmonton $100,000,000 just to get to a vacant lot,
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Last edited by Policy Wonk; Aug 6, 2010 at 10:43 AM.
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  #51  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2010, 2:26 PM
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Don't live there, haven't spent nearly enough time there, but... after finally exploring the parts of Edmonton near the muni, all I can say is what a waste of space! It divides the northern part of the city, makes it really annoying to get around if you don't memorize when your street is going to end, and appears to be some pretty valuable real estate. It's practically next door to downtown! In any other city this would be some of the most prime land.

I have to think that the general crumminess of some of the surrounding area is directly attributable to being next to an airport, too. It makes Edmonton's "core" seem a bit trashier than it should be for such a rich city (some may like this grit, but that's a different discussion). Seems to me that if you replaced the airport with new residential/commercial, it'd evolve into THE place to live.

Plus the fact that it forces a height restriction on downtown means it has to go. I hate all height restrictions but some are necessary evils (Vegas, Calgary). But having one just so some guy can park his Lear closer to downtown? Begone with it!

That aside, having flown through the muni several times I'll still miss it. It was incredibly convenient for intra-Alberta commutes, and had none of the hassle of YEG (security, lineups, etc). But that's in the past now.
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  #52  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2010, 3:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Policy Wonk View Post
Leaked documents from Edmonton Airports estimate it will cost $45 million dollars to break the leases with the tenants at YXD, this is based on the assumption that they can reach settlements with the tenants and greater damages aren't reached in court.

This is David Miller and the Island Airport Bridge cancellation which ultimately cost tax payers $35,000,000 all over again, even though the City of Toronto insisted it would cost nothing.

Mandel: Stuck On Stupid. They are steamrolling ahead without so much as a good clue what it will cost or even a preliminary plan for the site. This isn't even at the spooky clipart cut-out people rendering stage.

That isn't the cost to close the airport, that isn't the cost to decommission and remediate the site, $45 million is just the cost to hopefully settle the leases with the tenants out of court.

It could cost Edmonton $100,000,000 just to get to a vacant lot,

So what I read, is the city should not spend 100 million dollars to get land back because its to expensive.

Isnt that the same argument that opponents used when the city wanted to build the 23rd ave interchange when the cost was 50 million, and what was the final bill? over 200 million?

That vacant lot is in the middle of the city!!!! How can you not recognize that opening that land to development will only benefit the city?? yes 100 mill is alot of money. But the city will get that money back and then some. Certainly finances need to be taken into consideration, however one would be a fool not to recognize the money making potential of this land for the city.
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  #53  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2010, 4:14 PM
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Exactly. It's a long-term investment.

The city only gains (at most) $1 million per year in property taxes while that land is being used as an airport. When fully developed, it can generate $90 million in property taxes, every year forever. Hell, even if only 10% gets developed it's generating ten times what it does now.

Not to mention the increased taxes the city will be able to collect from taller downtown buildings when height restrictions are gone (something to the tune of $100,000 per year for every extra story an office building has).

And these are the profits AFTER the city sells off the land (which is worth hundreds of millions itself).

Bottom line is that land is far too valuable to Edmonton citizens to continue letting it be wasted as a low-use industrial airport land.
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  #54  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2010, 4:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Policy Wonk View Post
Leaked documents from Edmonton Airports estimate it will cost $45 million dollars to break the leases with the tenants at YXD, this is based on the assumption that they can reach settlements with the tenants and greater damages aren't reached in court.

This is David Miller and the Island Airport Bridge cancellation which ultimately cost tax payers $35,000,000 all over again, even though the City of Toronto insisted it would cost nothing.

Mandel: Stuck On Stupid. They are steamrolling ahead without so much as a good clue what it will cost or even a preliminary plan for the site. This isn't even at the spooky clipart cut-out people rendering stage.

That isn't the cost to close the airport, that isn't the cost to decommission and remediate the site, $45 million is just the cost to hopefully settle the leases with the tenants out of court.

It could cost Edmonton $100,000,000 just to get to a vacant lot,
This is a page right out of the AEG's playbook

Nice try PW, "leaked documents" with no source... lol. That's exaclty with the Envision "volunteers" have been spewing in their vain attempt to get signatures on their petition.

What's your vested interest in keeping YXD open ? You certainly don't have the best interest of Edmontonians in mind
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  #55  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2010, 8:41 PM
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Hmmmm, this is getting interesting...

Quote:
EDMONTON — The development of Edmonton’s City Centre Airport took another step forward Friday when city officials released a short list of five companies competing to devise a master plan for the site.

“This is to be a world-class, sustainable, 30,000-people redevelopment, family oriented, which is to be leading-edge,” Phil Sande, executive director for the project, told a news conference. “It’s a remarkable opportunity for the city.”

The finalists are Sweco International of Stockholm, Sweden; Perkins + Will of Vancouver; KCAP Architects & Planners of Rotterdam, Netherlands; BNIM, from Kansas City, Missouri, and London’s Foster & Partners.

The firms, all working with local companies, were chosen from 33 applications.

Each will be paid $50,000 and given about four months to refine their submissions, which will then be made public before city council chooses the plan it wants for the 217-hectare property.



Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...#ixzz0vrPmpmFo
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  #56  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2010, 8:58 PM
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This is a page right out of the AEG's playbook

Nice try PW, "leaked documents" with no source... lol. That's exaclty with the Envision "volunteers" have been spewing in their vain attempt to get signatures on their petition.

What's your vested interest in keeping YXD open ? You certainly don't have the best interest of Edmontonians in mind
The source of the document is Edmonton Airports itself, it has been known to exist for more than a year but was confidential till somebody at YEG faxed it to CTV.

My interest is transportation and protecting transportation facilities from the Al Czervik's of the world and convoluted real estate boosterism schemes. YXD could be a tremendous transportation asset to the city were they to let its head above water for a few seconds. Most of what is done at YXD isn't going to move to YEG, it will just cease entirely.
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  #57  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2010, 9:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Policy Wonk View Post
The source of the document is Edmonton Airports itself, it has been known to exist for more than a year but was confidential till somebody at YEG faxed it to CTV.

My interest is transportation and protecting transportation facilities from the Al Czervik's of the world and convoluted real estate boosterism schemes. YXD could be a tremendous transportation asset to the city were they to let its head above water for a few seconds. Most of what is done at YXD isn't going to move to YEG, it will just cease entirely.
Links to articles would be nice.
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  #58  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2010, 11:27 PM
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What exactly goes on at YXD that hasn't already moved to YEG, or won't move to YEG when YXD closes? Real examples please - not just threats Policy Wonk

Nobody seems to be able to answer that, just a bunch of idle threats.

What - these protected businesses at YXD won't be able to compete in a real market? They will have to pay real fees at a real airport? Some how they will relocate to another city center airport somewhere? Will they relocate to the Calgary City Center Airport (yet to be built...)

The GA community (which has a large presence already at several area airports including YEG) will some how cease to exist?

People in Edmonton will just stop flying?
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  #59  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2010, 12:17 AM
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  #60  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2010, 12:33 AM
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It wasn't about those businesses being protected, it was about their business being providing direct air links, charter and scheduled to the city of Edmonton from elsewhere in the province. Leduc is not an effective point from which to serve much of Edmonton in that way. An effective base of operations for air ambulances, helicopter and fixed wing also ceases to exist, which will increase the need for patients to be transferred from YEG by helicopter if only due to traffic.

General aviation is dying out on its own with or without the Muni.
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