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  #141  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2012, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by jd3189 View Post
What needs to happen is more density in the outer suburbs of the city and increased transit . NYC also needs to develop as well, since the outer boroughs face the same problems the New Jersey region face. This would actually help the city in a global economic standpoint because it would have many financial districts to fall back on. But this can only work if the metro area continues to experience high growth. Manhattan is great and all,but it doesn't need to be the only powerhouse in Greater New York. There is great potential to make the whole region in that fashion.
The Inner ring Westchester and Northern NJ suburbs have redeveloped densely around train stations over the past 20 years. Recently Urban Jersey & Westchester , CT have been playing catch up to there dense suburban neighbors... Theres still alot of work to do , but you can finally sense change in the air. As for the Outer boroughs , Staten Island is more suburban then Neighboring Union and Hudson Counties which are dense Suburban / Urban ,there seems to be little effort to make them dense. Same with Urban Renewal in Eastern Queens and Southern Brooklyn , its slow... The South Bronx has recently started cleaning , maybe thats a sign of the poorer areas of this region changing?
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  #142  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2012, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
The MTA plans on extending service into Penn station via the Metro North lines after the ESA is completed and would need some more space opened up via the Gateway Project. lets look at the cost of the expansions... 8.7 Billion for 5 mile extension of the 7 line into NJ with maybe only 2 stations vs the 13-16 Billion Gateway Project which includes all the lines that would be allowed to be restored on the NJ side and added capacity and service on the NY side. The Gateway Project would allow for 9 lines to be restored on the NJ side with 64 stations.... The 7 Extension would not allow for this and it would delay this... Secaucus was overbuilt and badly , but there is also no room for Expansion in terms of Capacity , NJT can't turn around NEC trains on the NEC. No room for a loop track ,or Yard , so they have to go and use the Sunnyside Yard in Queens.... Even if you build a Subway to Secaucus it won't solve anything...it would make things worse... Ridership would only be 50-70,000 from what i'm hearing , for that much $$$ its better to build something on a Regional Scale. The Gateway Project and Regional Rail Expansions would service 450-500,000 Daily , including Amtrak expansions into PA and increased trains. Half of the Prep work for the Gateway is done already , making Major construction easier to do...

As for the PA , its corrupt , most of the $$$ pours into the WTC , not the PA projects its been audited recently.... The PATH rush hr is pretty short , at least in terms of crowds , only 30 trains are wall to wall.... which occurs from 5.30pm to 6.45pm...the rush hr starts on the PATH system between 4pm to 7pm.... The system can handle more then they let on , the system can handle more , the only problems are some of the station sizes... But the trains can safely handle the extra load. The Signal upgrade will allow for more trains which will reduce some of the station congestion and increase capacity up 350,000 if I recall correctly.

NJ and Urban Jersey are in a constant battle over NY stealing business and treating us badly , thus most New Jerseyites are against lines feeding into NY. Operating in NY is expensive so over the past 10 years Urban Jersey has sucked 50,000 jobs from NYC....were starting to win , and most New Jerseyites are realizing the value of investing in our Urban areas....
I have no preference on if the a hypothetical 7 extension serves Secaucus or the Hoboken terminal, If one costs less than the other I'd be in favor of that alternative. The trains don't have to turn at SJ since they can just continue on to the Hoboken terminal and be turned there as usual.

PATH capacity is about 240K and will go up to 290K once the signal project is done. I'll repeat this again...past that the PA hasn't even hinted that they have any interest in doing major construction to PATH to raise capacity (longer stations/trains).

Trying to strangle commuting into NYC in order to promote companies doing business in NJ is certifiable in light of what the ESA is going to do to commuting patterns and the overall competitiveness of regions served by MNRR and LIRR who will have more and faster access to the core of the metro.

Last edited by k1052; Feb 20, 2012 at 12:33 AM.
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  #143  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2012, 12:50 AM
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I have no preference on if the a hypothetical 7 extension serves Secaucus or the Hoboken terminal, If one costs less than the other I'd be in favor of that alternative. The trains don't have to turn at SJ since they can just continue on to the Hoboken terminal and be turned there as usual.

PATH capacity is about 240K and will go up to 290K once the signal project is done. I'll repeat this again...past that the PA hasn't even hinted that they have any interest in doing major construction to PATH to raise capacity (longer stations/trains).

Trying to strangle commuting into NYC in order to promote companies doing business in NJ is certifiable in light of what the ESA is going to do to commuting patterns and the overall competitiveness of regions served by MNRR and LIRR who will have more and faster access to the core of the metro.

Oh boi....where to begin....

I never said the Hoboken bound trains had any issues , I said the NEC trains can't turn around.... The Commute into the City would be a 2 seat ride which is unpopular in this region , it would also add 20-30 mins onto the journey...

The PATH Capacity is 250k , will go up to 290-350k , although no one knows the actually truth and seeing how the PA lies or skews facts i'm willing to place capacity increases higher. The PA just got sued by a few people and is under a huge amount of pressure to ADA there Harrison station and Grove Street which was rebuilt in 2007 and not ADA'd. They've promised to redo both by 2020...of course they've been saying that since 2000. The PA is under alot of pressure to clean up there act ,so i do see it finally getting done. There currently replacing the walls of the Hoboken , Newport and Exchange Place PATH , and relocating the Newport substation....along with the signal upgrades...

I never said to strangle commuting into NY , but if where going to prioritize our Cross Hudson Projects we should build something that should serve the whole Northeastern US , not a tiny slice of Urban Jersey. The MNRR is more competitive and better run then the LIRR , its on the same level as NJT....both systems need capacity increases and system expansions....and the Gateway would allow this....
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  #144  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2012, 1:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
Oh boi....where to begin....

I never said the Hoboken bound trains had any issues , I said the NEC trains can't turn around.... The Commute into the City would be a 2 seat ride which is unpopular in this region , it would also add 20-30 mins onto the journey...

The PATH Capacity is 250k , will go up to 290-350k , although no one knows the actually truth and seeing how the PA lies or skews facts i'm willing to place capacity increases higher. The PA just got sued by a few people and is under a huge amount of pressure to ADA there Harrison station and Grove Street which was rebuilt in 2007 and not ADA'd. They've promised to redo both by 2020...of course they've been saying that since 2000. The PA is under alot of pressure to clean up there act ,so i do see it finally getting done. There currently replacing the walls of the Hoboken , Newport and Exchange Place PATH , and relocating the Newport substation....along with the signal upgrades...

I never said to strangle commuting into NY , but if where going to prioritize our Cross Hudson Projects we should build something that should serve the whole Northeastern US , not a tiny slice of Urban Jersey. The MNRR is more competitive and better run then the LIRR , its on the same level as NJT....both systems need capacity increases and system expansions....and the Gateway would allow this....
Penn itself is no NJT rider's final destination. They end up on the subway or bus routes to access midtown north of the station. Doing the 7 extension provides more capacity from the NJ side that doesn't have to be routed through Penn. All Hoboken and many Penn riders already have a 2 (or even 3) seat ride.

I already said that Gateway should be built but it hasn't been designed and has no funding commitments other than preliminary engineering studies. The 2020 completion that is talked about is wildly optimistic, more like 2030 assuming the money can be gotten.
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  #145  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2012, 11:31 PM
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http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2012...n/?mod=WSJBlog

After Delay, Moynihan Station Meets the Bidders



By Ted Mann
March 2, 2012

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High-ranking state and federal officials huddled Thursday with potential bidders for the first phase of construction of Manhattan’s long-planned Moynihan Station.

The meeting at the James A. Farley Post Office came several weeks after the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey reached an agreement with state officials on scaling back the first phase of construction after bids exceeded projections by millions of dollars.

The initial phase, budgeted at about $267 million, is now largely restricted to improvements to the existing West Side Concourse of Pennsylvania Station and improving street access.

Among the factors bedeviling potential contractors, government officials and Penn Station’s busy railroads is the simple problem of sharing space.

To complete the proposed widening and lengthening of the West Side Concourse on time and without cost overruns, contractors will likely need to close off parts of the tracks that run under Eighth Avenue, Madison Square Garden and the post office. Railroads, struggling to cope with overcrowding while maintaining on-time service, have been loath to agree to significant shutdowns.
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  #146  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2012, 2:29 PM
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Hey guys, I'm doing work on Phase 2 of the MSG renovation and snapped some pictures on Tuesday night:

View from 300 Level Concourse with 300 Level Seating Sections Removed:






Looking Down From One of the Spot Lighting Platforms in the Ceiling:




Inside the Attic Above the Ceiling - The Dustry Cylinder in the Middle is Directly Above the MSG Scoreboard and is a Water Tank to Collect From the Roof Drains Before Being Pumped Down to the Street:




Behind the 400 Level Seating for Removal of Decking on the 10th Floor:




View From the old 400 Level:




Removal of Steel at the 10th Floor:




View of Demolition From the Arena Floor:



Last edited by islandxtreme26; Jun 21, 2012 at 2:48 PM.
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  #147  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2012, 3:16 PM
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Whoa. Awesome update. Thanks for sharing.
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  #148  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2012, 1:33 PM
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http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?se...fic&id=8721631

LIRR planning Penn Station makeover

5/01/12

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The Long Island Railroad is planning a massive makeover for Penn Station.

It would be the largest redesign since the original Penn Station was demolished in 1963 to make way for Madison Square Garden.

A Los Angeles company is helping plan a new layout, with new electronic signs and wider walking areas with natural light.

The MTA also hopes to upgrade the quality of the station's restaurants and stores.
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  #149  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2012, 10:48 PM
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http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...TION/120709991

Penn Station makeover is finally in the works


By Andrew J. Hawkins @andyjayhawk
July 2, 2012

Quote:

Penn Station is due for a makeover. Long Island Railroad, New Jersey Transit and Amtrak are exploring ways to revitalize the dingy, underground transit hub over the next several decades, and most importantly, how to pay for it.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority recently contracted with the Los Angeles-based construction firm Aecom to produce a report on ways to optimize the flow of commuter traffic through the station, as well as improve its overall appearance and commercial amenities. The firm is scheduled to deliver its report at the end of the year, after which the transit agencies will decide which recommendations to accept, and how to divvy up the responsibilities.

“There is room at Penn Station for physical changes that will make travel more pleasant,” said LIRR President Helena Williams. “We know the commuter experience can and should be improved.”

The plan, entitled Penn Station Vision, was first reported July 1 by Newsday.
Still in its early stages, the project will be paid for in the MTA's next five-year capital plan, which starts in 2015. The price tag will not be covered by the $267 million Moynihan Station project, which aims to redevelop the adjacent Farley Post Office into a new entry point for Penn Station.

The project is also not expected to turn Penn Station into an architectural masterpiece like Grand Central Terminal, officials cautioned. The station is underground, and with Madison Square Garden sitting directly above it, any expansion would be limited.


"The basement atmosphere, I don't think there is much that can be done with that, other than perhaps sprucing it up," said Bruce Becker, president of the Empire State Passengers Association. Instead, officials are looking for ways to better utilize the space available. Knocking down walls to improve the flow of commuter traffic, and improving the lighting are some of the upgrades expected to be explored.
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  #150  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2012, 11:32 PM
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  #151  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2012, 2:38 AM
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Yes, even flushing money down the toilets would improve the place because at least it would scour some of the filth away.
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  #152  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2012, 11:11 PM
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NY's major train station. A basement. If Tokyo Shinjuku station (another basement) can be made to look appealing, I'm sure this one can put on a brighter face.

The lack of development on the Monyihan station is disgusting. It SHOULD NOT take over a decade to even begin work.
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  #153  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2012, 11:49 PM
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It SHOULD NOT take over a decade to even begin work.
It won't. It's ironic that Penn Station has been allowed to stay the way it has for so long, when not that far away, Grand Central serves as the example of what a major train terminal should be. But that has a lot to do with the real estate, mainly that Penn Station is literally a basement. There is very little they can do there without razing Madison Square Garden. This is where Moynihan Station comes in.


http://www.khl.com/magazines/interna...=breaking-news
Skanska wins New York station contract

by Sarah Ann McCay
17 Jun 2012


Quote:
Swedish contractor Skanska has been awarded an US$ 148 million contract to expand New York's Penn Station. The contract, awarded by the Moynihan Station Development Corporation, will see the contractor expand the length and width of the existing West End Concourse, which currently serves as a secondary access point to train platforms for Long Island Railroad, New Jersey Transit and Amtrak commuters.

Skanska will also build two new entrances to the station from Eighth Avenue to the West End Concourse. The station currently serves around 300,000 passengers a day. The first phase of the project is scheduled for completion in July 2016


http://www.theconstructionindex.co.u...cts-worth-300m
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  #154  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2012, 9:26 PM
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http://observer.com/2012/07/inside-t...d-post-office/

Inside the Retro-Futuristic Moynihan Station: Newest Plans Are a Throwback to the Old Post Office


The first phase of Moynihan Station will be limited largely to new entrances on the west side of Eighth Avenue.


July 10, 2012
By Matt Chaban

Quote:
Back in May, Amtrak invited bigs from both sides of the Hudson, Albany and D.C. to come celebrate the start of phase one construction on Moynihan Station—even Rosario Dawson, train aficionado, was there. Yet more striking than the silver screen star were the new renderings for Moynihan Station that Amtrak showed off.

Not just the banal concourses of Phase 1 that have bandied about before—nothing new there—but honest to god interiors of the grand train hall meant to restore Penn Station to its former glory inside the old Farley Post office. In a bid for both historical preservation and cost savings, the roof of the post office will no longer be ripped off and replaced with a new glass ceiling, but instead the existing one, with its massive steel trusses will be preserved.

Naturally, the very next morning, The Observer was hot on the trail of those renderings. (Really, do we care about anything else?) Sadly, one bureaucrat or press handler after another said, well, those are preliminary designs, so we’re not really ready to reveal them.

But Amtrak just did, even if it didn’t mean to, in its latest report on high-speed rail for the Northeast Corridor (coming someday, we promise, fingers crossed), which the fine folks over at WNYC’s Transportation Nation picked up. Therein lie the renderings we were after, along with a lot of other cool high-speed rail pics that will keep us dreaming until we can finally get on board.


The entrance on 33rd Street includes a new subway entrance.



Inside, everything is slick 20th Century airport chic.



The biggest changes will not be the entrances but new platforms underground and rejiggered tracks.



The swooping new concourse for the first phase, reminiscent of Santiago Calatrava's World Trade Center PATH station.



The real show stopper is the new train hall, which keeps the old Farley Post Office roof intact, a cost-saving and preservation-friendly move.



This is contrary to a 2006 proposal, seen here, that would have done away with the old roof and replaced it with a soaring new one.



New corridors will connect riders not only to trains but retail opportunities—much of the old post office will be converted into shops, like at Washington and San Fancisco's train stations.



This is all part of a bigger plan for high speed rail, which Amtrak presented at the post office in May. A huge new station would be built for this along 30th Street.



This would help accommodate new bullet trains traveling up and down the Northeast Corridor.



By Amtrak's own admission, this rollout will take not a few decades to complete.



But the opportunities for connectivity throughout the region are big.
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  #155  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2012, 9:30 PM
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Amazing. We're finally advancing in public transportation to be comparable with Europe and East Asia.
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  #156  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2012, 4:43 AM
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The real show stopper is the new train hall, which keeps the old Farley Post Office roof intact, a cost-saving and preservation-friendly move.
what I love about this is not only is this a cost-saving and preservation-friendly move, as was said, but this I feel is yet more reminiscent of the old Penn Station than even the original Moynihan plan was, with all that exposed steel on the ceiling.

WIN. WIN. WIN.
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  #157  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2012, 11:40 PM
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All very exciting news - I just hope they actually follow through . . .
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  #158  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2012, 12:47 AM
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Hmmm, I like this project but my biggest concern is if people will be able to actually pronounce "Moynihan station" lol
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  #159  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2012, 11:42 PM
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Well the distinction between Moynihan and Penn to the public will be pretty limited. I think the majority will just call it Penn which leads me to wonder about the wisdom of honor namings anyway. It's an admirable tradition but I think there are other ways that don't hamper clarity or distinction as far as the public I concerned. I'm not a fan of most of these renamings Triboro = RFK included.
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  #160  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2012, 1:01 AM
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Well the distinction between Moynihan and Penn to the public will be pretty limited.
Somewhat, but the distinction will be that when people are referencing the Farley building in particular, that will be Moynihan. Of course, if you're coming into Manhattan on the LIRR, you'll be arriving in Penn Station and not Moynihan. But Penn Station doesn't have a visible presence on the street. You can't really point to it (except for a few signs), not the case for Moynihan.
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