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  #1  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2010, 10:14 PM
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Smile NEW YORK | 50 (10) UN Plaza | 570 FT | 44 FLOORS

Guess its time to bring this back...

http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2010/0...plaza.php#more
Possible Sneak Preview of Secretive 10 United Nations Plaza



Tuesday, September 21, 2010, by Pete

Quote:
The wild winds of last week's tornado whipped up all sorts of stuff and sent it our way, including a rendering of 10 United Nations Plaza, a mystery project with the alternate address of 825 First Avenue that's been stuck in stall mode. The archi-freaks over at Wired New York have been abuzz about what will rise here, where Zeckendorf Development plans to build a luxury condominium on a plot across from the United Nations gardens that they bought for $160 million back in 2007. Now we've got some clues.

This past July the Department of Buildings issued a New Building Permit for the site, showing it will rise 40 stories and hold 74 units, including two full-floor duplex penthouses up top with views of pretty much everything, except maybe all the way up into Jeter's place next door. Can't win 'em all!

The architect is SLCE, but nothing about this project shows up on the firm's website. The render depicts a tower in glass and metal, rising just to the south of the 72-story Trump World Tower. The George W. Bush Security Bunker U.S. Permanent Mission to the UN just down First Avenue shows up in the image as it looked more than a year ago while still under construction, so there's no telling quite yet if this vision of the luxury stack of apartments at 10 United Nations Plaza is what will go up.









http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/Jo...ssdocnumber=01
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  #2  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2010, 10:17 PM
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i dont like it....whats with the box on top?
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  #3  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2010, 10:34 PM
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Pretty awful.
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  #4  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2010, 10:37 PM
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i dont like it....whats with the box on top?
Most likely mechanical space. Unlike the many water towers you see on so many classic New York buildings.

It's a very bland design though, at least from that rendering. We need to see it close up, but it may or may not be the actual design.
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  #5  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2010, 11:24 PM
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Uuuuuuuuuuggglllly in that area you can easily build a supertall
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  #6  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2010, 12:01 AM
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Uuuuuuuuuuggglllly in that area you can easily build a supertall
Yeah...a supertall on first avenue. I doubt that will happen for a long long time. There is simply no demand and tons of empty lots. Solow has several GIANT plots.

The UN is right there too. Its enough traffic and cops every September for the GA. I live a good distance away and its a hassle. I cant imagine being right THERE.
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  #7  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2010, 12:04 AM
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Yeah...a supertall on first avenue...sure.
well its not impossible if we get the transit in place
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  #8  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2010, 12:13 AM
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On a lot with a some more square footage, maybe. This lot is half the size of Trump World Tower. The fact is the east side is heavily developed, and not a lot of development is going to happen here, as there aren't as many underused parcels. The best chance of anything really tall is going to be the site just south of the U.N.
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  #9  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2010, 12:15 AM
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On a lot with a some more square footage, maybe. This lot is half the size of Trump World Tower. The fact is the east side is heavily developed, and not a lot of development is going to happen here, as there aren't as many underused parcels. The best chance of anything really tall is going to be the site just south of the U.N.
or you could just up root the park to the right of the UN
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  #10  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2010, 1:59 AM
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Meh. It's alright, not a bad filler.
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  #11  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2010, 3:35 AM
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Yeah...a supertall on first avenue. I doubt that will happen for a long long time. There is simply no demand and tons of empty lots. Solow has several GIANT plots.

You can't be serious. No demand? Those Solow lots are empty because his development has been held up for several years for a variety of reasons, but will eventually hold several 600'+ towers. There is more than enough demand for much taller, much better designed tower at this location.
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  #12  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2010, 1:21 PM
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Originally Posted by JSsocal View Post
On a lot with a some more square footage, maybe. This lot is half the size of Trump World Tower. The fact is the east side is heavily developed, and not a lot of development is going to happen here, as there aren't as many underused parcels. The best chance of anything really tall is going to be the site just south of the U.N.
The most important thing here, correctly, is that lot, and what it's zoned to hold. There's also the matter of that plaza on 47th, although it didn't affect the Trump World Tower. But Trump's tower was as-of-right, and the mini war he fought with neighborhood residents was never a real concern for him.



That Con Ed site meanwhile, just south of the UN, sits empty and unispired to produce anything worthy of the site.
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  #13  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2010, 1:49 PM
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Yeah...a supertall on first avenue. I doubt that will happen for a long long time. There is simply no demand and tons of empty lots. Solow has several GIANT plots.
What the hell are you talking about? There is no demand for residential space in prime East Side Manhattan? Is this a comedy routine?

Solow's development sites are a ways south from here, and he is in litigation with his partners, so they won't be built until the legal issues are resolved. Completely irrelevent.
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The UN is right there too. Its enough traffic and cops every September for the GA. I live a good distance away and its a hassle. I cant imagine being right THERE.
Yeah, the UN is a real negative for residential real estate demand. All those Saudi oil sheiks and European princes paying $15-20 million a pop for condos is a real drag on local property values.

There was just a $30 million sale on Sutton Place. I guess the buyer didn't get the memo.
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  #14  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2010, 3:52 PM
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Looks lame.
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  #15  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2010, 4:31 AM
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For that plot of land, we could use a better tower, both size wise and architectually. These large empty lots too often produce largely disappointing towers. From that render at least, there appears to be no exception here.
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  #16  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2010, 5:14 AM
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Dang, I was hoping this was the UN itself expanding.
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  #17  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2010, 5:45 AM
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What the hell are you talking about? There is no demand for residential space in prime East Side Manhattan? Is this a comedy routine?

Solow's development sites are a ways south from here, and he is in litigation with his partners, so they won't be built until the legal issues are resolved. Completely irrelevent.

Yeah, the UN is a real negative for residential real estate demand. All those Saudi oil sheiks and European princes paying $15-20 million a pop for condos is a real drag on local property values.

There was just a $30 million sale on Sutton Place. I guess the buyer didn't get the memo.
In case you haven't noticed, there is already a very large condo tower next-door, one that had trouble selling some of its high profile units, though that was more an issue of improper pricing. Such units in the area, like those you mentioned at Sutton Place, might be great for oil magnates who can be driven everywhere who want to rub elbows at the UN. But that is clearly a finite market.

But what would a supertall at this location offer? Stunning architecture? They don't have a great start and probably wont (see below). Luxury hotel? Apparently not offered. The views on the north side are all blocked. Adding rentals won't work (thats the problem with Solow's proposals) as there is no easy access to transportation and the neighborhood is meh. The best you can do with an all condo tower is build it short enough and cheap enough so the price points are low enough that its more attractive than its neighbors. Thats hardly the makings for a supertall.
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  #18  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2010, 2:16 PM
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But what would a supertall at this location offer? Stunning architecture? They don't have a great start and probably wont (see below). Luxury hotel? Apparently not offered. The views on the north side are all blocked. Adding rentals won't work (thats the problem with Solow's proposals) as there is no easy access to transportation and the neighborhood is meh. The best you can do with an all condo tower is build it short enough and cheap enough so the price points are low enough that its more attractive than its neighbors. Thats hardly the makings for a supertall.
There will be no supertall on that small site for various reasons, but for the sake of argument, we'll make a case "theoretically" for one.

As far as location, it's always possible for an architect to design something stunning. Views to the north? Trump World Tower is an 800 footer, the highest and most expensive units of a supertall there would have unobstructed views. But that's not as big a problem as you would think. We currently have a supertall under construction on 57th Street, that while offereing stunning views of Central Park to the north, will have views to the south blocked by other large residential towers.

But it just isn't a site large enough for a supertall, nor is it zoned for it.
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Old Posted Sep 24, 2010, 4:21 PM
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There will be no supertall on that small site for various reasons, but for the sake of argument, we'll make a case "theoretically" for one.

As far as location, it's always possible for an architect to design something stunning. Views to the north? Trump World Tower is an 800 footer, the highest and most expensive units of a supertall there would have unobstructed views. But that's not as big a problem as you would think. We currently have a supertall under construction on 57th Street, that while offereing stunning views of Central Park to the north, will have views to the south blocked by other large residential towers.

But it just isn't a site large enough for a supertall, nor is it zoned for it.
Well, I think you could "theoretically" make one if it included 40 floors of a luxury hotel, if the market was way better, or if there weren't a good number of other condo-supertalls proposed/vaguely under construction with way better views (sorry, I don't think a view of Central Park from 57th St entirely compares to a view of Brooklyn from First Ave). Economics wise, skyscrapers have always been about practicality. I don't see a practical argument for one here, even zoning aside (which is obviously a major consideration) just a lot of "OMG WHY NO SUPERTALL." You can bet Trump would heavily lobby against any such building as well, especially since its relatively easy to break through his brand and offer better amenities.

It should be obvious from my comments that I almost always think the architecture of almost any building can be improved. This looks to be no exception, but I try to restrain myself until more detailed renders are released.
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Old Posted Sep 25, 2010, 2:20 AM
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Well, I think you could "theoretically" make one if it included 40 floors of a luxury hotel, if the market was way better, or if there weren't a good number of other condo-supertalls proposed/vaguely under construction with way better views (sorry, I don't think a view of Central Park from 57th St entirely compares to a view of Brooklyn from First Ave).
And yet, there sits Trump World Tower. You've heard of it, I'm sure.


Quote:
Economics wise, skyscrapers have always been about practicality. I don't see a practical argument for one here, even zoning aside (which is obviously a major consideration) just a lot of "OMG WHY NO SUPERTALL." You can bet Trump would heavily lobby against any such building as well, especially since its relatively easy to break through his brand and offer better amenities.
Trump could lobby all he wanted, but if there were an actual possibility of a tower surpassing his, and it could be built, his lobbying would get him as far as the Malkins did concerning 15 Penn Plaza. But if it were as undesirable a location as you say, he wouldn't need to.
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