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  #21  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 2:37 AM
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haha. Mike, surely there are better (or should I say, worse) slum examples in the GTA? C'mon. The place looks pretty good. 3/10 on your assignment.
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  #22  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 2:59 AM
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Malton, Rexdale, Jane-Finch, any of those would have sufficed, though still laughable by American standards.

But any neighbourhood that has a lot of immigrants is the same to miketoronto. They cause 99% of all crimes, according to him. When he says "middle class", what he is actually saying is "white people."
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  #23  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 3:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doady View Post
Malton, Rexdale, Jane-Finch, any of those would have sufficed, though still laughable by American standards.

But any neighbourhood that has a lot of immigrants is the same to miketoronto. They cause 99% of all crimes, according to him. When he says "middle class", what he is actually saying is "white people."
Doady that is very offensive to me to even say that. A large majority of my friends are immigrants and non white.

And for your information I did not pick this neighbourhood. The neighbourhood ogranization came to us to do the report on the neighbourhood. They are the ones who are not happy with the way the neighbourhood is going, and guess what. They are immigrants themselves.

So that is very offensive to me. No one is more proud of the diversity in this city than myself.

But what I think is sad is that immigrants are stuck living in poor living conditions in these buildings.
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  #24  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 1:39 PM
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Miketoronto can't be real. I swear that he is fabricated by someone on here.

Love the obligatory shopping cart pic. HAHAHAHA!
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  #25  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 2:25 PM
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The area needs help for sure, but calling it a slum is more than a bit disingenuous. The big problem is that most of the rental apartments are independently owned (generally by small consortiums of lawyers who bought in the 60s) and it's financially advantageous to hold off on imrovements even if it means lower rental rates. But really, there's far worse in the city. And these sorts of areas exist all over Ontario. I've been in a few Ottawa towers that are on par with the worst of Toronto. And god forbid you go to rural Ontario or the North.
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  #26  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 4:09 PM
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Slum is not a relative term when doing contrasts like measuring size or length of time.
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  #27  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 4:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niwell View Post
The area needs help for sure, but calling it a slum is more than a bit disingenuous. The big problem is that most of the rental apartments are independently owned (generally by small consortiums of lawyers who bought in the 60s) and it's financially advantageous to hold off on imrovements even if it means lower rental rates. But really, there's far worse in the city. And these sorts of areas exist all over Ontario. I've been in a few Ottawa towers that are on par with the worst of Toronto. And god forbid you go to rural Ontario or the North.
Some of these places are not well-kept that's for sure. But slum refers to neighbourhood, not specific buildings. These are spread all over cities, you find them in almost every neighbourhood in Ontario. Is every neighbourhood in Ontario a slum? C'mon. Some of these buildings are located in very wealthy areas.

And of course the actual condition vary from building to building. Some are actually not bad at all. Just my opinion, but perhaps it is because of these buildings and their locations that Toronto lacks any areas that might truly be called a slum. They are also part of the reason why suburban transit routes in the Toronto area have such high frequency that they are desireable for more than just the poor population.

So the residents of these buildings, whether they are actually poor or not, are integrated with the rest of the population, wealthy or not. They all use the same schools, the same buses, the same malls, shop at the same stores, etc. Just look the picture where the towers rise above the houses. C'mon, there is no great divide here. In fact these photos suggest the opposite.

These are actually interesting photos, but for the opposite reasons that miketoronto suggest. These photos also show the real Toronto. This is what most of Toronto looks like. Most of the City of Toronto is post-war suburbia, and Scarborough Village is a typical example of it.
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  #28  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 4:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Doady View Post
Just my opinion, but perhaps it is because of these buildings and their locations that Toronto lacks any areas that might truly be called a slum.
Good point. These are the only affordable apartments for many people.

A lot of these buildings are 40 or more years old and starting to show their age. Many apartment buildings like these were built with government subsidies, they weren't built to high standards in the first place. Relatively little subsidised housing has been built in the past 25 years. I've seen nasty apartment buildings throughout Ontario.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Doady View Post
These are actually interesting photos, but for the opposite reasons that miketoronto suggest. These photos also show the real Toronto. This is what most of Toronto looks like. Most of the City of Toronto is post-war suburbia, and Scarborough Village is a typical example of it.
The majority of people in Ontario probably live in or grew up in a neighbourhood just like this.
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  #29  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 5:48 PM
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Typical Toronto Suburb
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  #30  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 9:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doady View Post
Some of these places are not well-kept that's for sure. But slum refers to neighbourhood, not specific buildings. These are spread all over cities, you find them in almost every neighbourhood in Ontario. Is every neighbourhood in Ontario a slum? C'mon. Some of these buildings are located in very wealthy areas.
Slum was just used in my title. You guys really are making too much of a big deal out of the title.
I just called it a slum in the title because that is what many people in the single family homes feel these buildings are.

It does not matter if it is a slum or not in your eyes. In the preception of many residents they are considered a slum and that has other side effects.

For example, I have talked with a number of people who left suburban Toronto for the newer suburbs because they did not want to live near these unkept towers.

And it does not change the fact these buildings need to be upgraded and the whole neighbourhood is looking very shabby and needs a clean up with public realm improvments.
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  #31  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 9:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
I see nothing wrong with forcing the landlords of these buildings to clean up. I have friends who have grown up in the buildings in this area and along the Markham Road corridor and it is not fun.

Lets see some of the issues.

-Bed bugs
-Broken water pipes in the hallways leading to hallways full of water for months on end.
-No hot water on upper floors.
-Elevators always out of service or that don't operate safely. One building is famous for the elevators stopping at the floor you did not push the button for.
-Garbage in many places
-Unkept common areas.
-Apartment units which need fixing. Some have floors with tiles that just come off, etc.

The living conditions are very poor, and I don't think you guys would want to live in these buildings. They need fixing, and the general lack of upkeep is bringing the neighbourhood down. Like I said, people don't want to invest in it. It is just sitting there in decay.
The area those buildins are in has seen an 18% drop in population.
But none of these things can be seen in the pictures. Perhaps it would be more informative and persuasive to post some interior pictures. Preferably a full building tour. And maybe link to some statistics giving more info on the pest control issues?
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  #32  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 9:41 PM
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someone needs to get out more
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  #33  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 9:59 PM
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Also each city has different views on what is bad. For Toronto this is considered an issue. So what are we supposed to do. Not clean it up because it is not as bad as a slum in South America?

For Toronto standards this is an issue, and that is why the neighbourhood is targeted by the city as a priority area.
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  #34  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 7:08 AM
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mike, if you think Toronto has any "slums", I suggest you travel the world and see what a real slum looks like.
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  #35  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 7:35 AM
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not everyone can afford to "fix it up" life isn't as easy and nice as it seems from school
if landlords fix em up than the costs get passed on to the tennants many of whom probably can't afford it - its like owning a car - i see people driving around with burnt out lights or scrapes and i say why don't they fix it - than here i am having a burnt out light for months cause I can't afford to get it fixed - other things come first
if the place keeps you warm and dry and you can call it home thats what you do
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  #36  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 10:05 AM
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anyway, I guess we should consider the thread title is actually a representative of the oldest trick ever... you create a title which will lower the expectations of those people entering the thread, who will enter expeting the worse. than, you post photos of actually likeable places, and people will talk wonders about the city
You really think miketoronto is that clever?
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  #37  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 4:44 PM
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Great photo. . . actually. . .



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  #38  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 5:42 PM
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The buildings are 40 years old, stuff is gonna break. Some people in Toronto need an alternative to those crappy houses that sell for $400,000....cripes, you could buy a mansion on the waterfront here for that price.
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  #39  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 6:23 PM
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It should also be pointed out that there is an argument for these towers in their current state as they provide one of the last vestiges of truly affordable housing in the city. You can get a proper 2-bedroom place for less than a bachelor downtown. Now I'm all in favour of the City's (ERA architects really) Tower Renewal Program (http://www.towerrenewal.ca/) but there is the danger this will simply gentrify the spaces and result in higher rents. Those involved with the program are very aware of this issue, but it's going to be hard to pull off.

There have been plenty of Miketoronto threads complaining about concentrations of poor in the City of Toronto and how this poverty is not spread throughout the GTA. This really ignores the fact that an economically viable central city like Toronto will always exhibit such concentrations (and likewise, growing concentrations of wealth). This is where the services are, simple as that. Someone under the low-income cuttoff isn't going to move to the edge of Vaughan because of some weird social ideal of mixed-income. The trick is to ensure that these priority neighbourhoods are properly serviced without unduly raising housing costs and in turn forcing residents elsewhere.
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  #40  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 6:44 PM
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When I first viewed this thread, only Steely Dan had made a comment yet. I assumed he was mistaken in thinking Mike actually believed his photos depicted a slum. I figured Mike was just being facetious with the thread title. Now that I've seen the follow-up responses, I realize *I* was mistaken.

Mike, I think you need to pay closer attention to the type of words you use. You could maybe get away with referring to this area as more run-down or maybe even somewhat decayed (by 1st world country standards), but it doesn't seem to even remotely fit the category of "slum" when you think about areas of the less developed world.
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