Compass & Fare Gates Discussion | u/c - Page 64

officedweller · #**1261** Posted: **Sep 27, 2011, 7:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

Which also makes me wonder... what was the original plan for the Brentwood Station concourse level? There's like this huge unused concourse portion just to the northeast, and the branch to the south also looks a little incomplete with that lonely staircase just hanging off the side.

At one time the plan was for the bus loop to be relocated to the north side of the station - but that was dropped and the long walkway to the old bus loop was built instead.
I haven't been there for a while, so can't remember what the layout is, but I'll bet the area you mention would have been for escalators down to a new bus loop.
In its current form, I would say that the concourse is just awaiting redevelopment on each side of the hghway to tie in with it.

Jebby · #**1262** Posted: **Sep 27, 2011, 9:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Well, if you walked through them, it certainly sounds like it wasn't active. I know that Berlin used a POP system when I was there, complete with scanners that people used.

In some places (Berlin and Helsinki come to mind) there are far fewer problems with honesty... or there is a stronger sense of community and obligation to rightly "pay ones dues" and so these systems work.

Berlin has a POP system? I lived there for 4 years and just assumed the U- and S-banns were free...

twoNeurons · #**1263** Posted: **Sep 28, 2011, 12:39 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by galeforcewinds

Berlin has a POP system? I lived there for 4 years and just assumed the U- and S-banns were free...

Hmmm... something tells that I question that. When I was there, plainclothes officers patrolled the system pretty regularly. Much harder to avoid than the Translink officers in uniform.

Waders · #**1264** Posted: **Sep 28, 2011, 1:53 AM**

I think some preliminary work has started at Metrotown station. I guess at least 6 small holes have been drilled on the floor at the ticketing concourse level and covered with orange cone.
Too bad I couldn't lift up the cone to find out what was underneath as a few attendants were standing nearby.

Mac Write · #**1265** Posted: **Sep 28, 2011, 3:48 AM**

Last night hoarding was up at 22nd St station.

SpongeG · #**1266** Posted: **Sep 28, 2011, 5:00 AM**

they have or are in the process of moving the ticket machines at the dunsmuir entrance for granville station from the level they are on now - tim hortons etc to the level at the bottom of the escalators - one was in place today and i saw them taking the other ones apart to move them

Waders · #**1267** Posted: **Sep 28, 2011, 5:22 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpongeG

they have or are in the process of moving the ticket machines at the dunsmuir entrance for granville station from the level they are on now - tim hortons etc to the level at the bottom of the escalators - one was in place today and i saw them taking the other ones apart to move them

Hmm. What else is left in that level once all the ticket machines are moved down to the platform level? May be Translink can rent the space out to a retailer. Unfortunately the Starbucks used to be at that level couldn't survive.
The Dunsmuir entrance is not well utilized by passengers.

Jebby · #**1268** Posted: **Sep 28, 2011, 8:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Hmmm... something tells that I question that. When I was there, plainclothes officers patrolled the system pretty regularly. Much harder to avoid than the Translink officers in uniform.

In the 4 years I lived in Berlin I maybe spent €20 on tickets. I was stopped twice, once I pretended that I had forgotten to stamp my ticket, got off and jumped onto the next train and the other time I was running late for the ICE train I need to catch so I just ran put of the station and hopped into a taxi. Never paid any fine for not having a ticket.

Fines weren't that high anyway, I think it was €40 for no ticket. I know it's only a €10 for smoking on the train!

BCPhil · #**1269** Posted: **Sep 30, 2011, 11:15 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waders

Hmm. What else is left in that level once all the ticket machines are moved down to the platform level? May be Translink can rent the space out to a retailer. Unfortunately the Starbucks used to be at that level couldn't survive.
The Dunsmuir entrance is not well utilized by passengers.

It's getting better than when it first opened. I used to that entrance all the time (during Canada Line Construction it was the closest exit to get to buses on Howe), and when it first opened, getting off a train I would be the only person on the escalator. Now almost 1/4 getting off seem to go that way.

And people are getting used to using it now that it seems to be the entrance Translink uses to handle crowds (leave that one open and close all the others).

The big problem with that Starbucks was that it was closed at around 6pm. It's hard to make a lot of money when you close for half the day. Also, Starbucks is too slow for a train station. The Tim Hortons seems to be doing fine, even though there is one across the street.

Quote:

Originally Posted by galeforcewinds

In the 4 years I lived in Berlin I maybe spent €20 on tickets. I was stopped twice, once I pretended that I had forgotten to stamp my ticket, got off and jumped onto the next train and the other time I was running late for the ICE train I need to catch so I just ran put of the station and hopped into a taxi. Never paid any fine for not having a ticket.

Fines weren't that high anyway, I think it was €40 for no ticket. I know it's only a €10 for smoking on the train!

What, they don't make you buy some kind of not having a ticket personal liability insurance in Germany?

twoNeurons · #**1270** Posted: **Sep 30, 2011, 7:22 PM**

Man... I got checked a couple of times the short time I was there. The first time I had been using a daypass that wasn't validated as I had bought a ticket and assumed it was validated for the day. They told me to get off and validate it at the poles on the platform.

Further evidence that faregates will stop the fare leakage from "honest thieves" or in other words, people who won't go out of their way to pay fares, but won't go out of their way to avoid paying them either.

The only thing that irritates me about the faregates is the zone boundary issue. Taking the train from Joyce to Metrotown shouldn't cost more than taking transit from UBC to Commercial Drive.

Without getting into it, I really think that Joyce, Patterson, Rupert and Gilmore should be considered double zone stations. In other words, boarding or alighting at one of these stations would accept zone 1 or 2 single zone fares.

Example, board at Rupert, alight at Brentwood, your card allows you out but remains a Zone 1 card (can't transfer to a bus without an addfare). Get on at New West, alight at Joyce, same thing.

Simple solution that would alleviate much of the issues many have with zone boundaries. They already do this with buses that straddle zones. You just need to tell the driver which zone you want.

Another way to do this is add a step at the TVMs... however, that wouldn't work for faresavers.

Jebby · #**1271** Posted: **Sep 30, 2011, 10:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCPhil

What, they don't make you buy some kind of not having a ticket personal liability insurance in Germany?

What the hell is that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Man... I got checked a couple of times the short time I was there. The first time I had been using a daypass that wasn't validated as I had bought a ticket and assumed it was validated for the day. They told me to get off and validate it at the poles on the platform.

When were you there? I've noticed that they have times when the rate of fare controls spikes, but in my experience its very seldom. Plainclothes fare inspectors are rarely used anymore, it's usually people wearing the BVG (berlin transit authority) uniforms and you can spot them from a mile away, especially since they travel in groups of 2-3 and they always linger on platforms waiting for a train or they get off the train to get into the next car (on the trains that arent articulated) which gives you time to get off and avoid the inspection by getting on the next train.

SpongeG · #**1272** Posted: **Oct 1, 2011, 5:47 AM**

went through dunsmuir yesterday they have only moved one machine so far - slow process i guess - unless its just a test of some sort

allan_kuan · #**1273** Posted: **Oct 1, 2011, 10:50 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waders

I think some preliminary work has started at Metrotown station. I guess at least 6 small holes have been drilled on the floor at the ticketing concourse level and covered with orange cone. Too bad I couldn't lift up the cone to find out what was underneath as a few attendants were standing nearby.

Actually that makes me wonder if the renovation on the Metropolis at Metrotown side of the overpass is for the temporary installation of fare-gates and vending machines while they continue to work on those upgrade plans...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waders

Hmm. What else is left in that level once all the ticket machines are moved down to the platform level? May be Translink can rent the space out to a retailer. The Dunsmuir entrance is not well utilized by passengers.

Is it just me or did TransLink forget something about fare-gates when it built the Seymour St entrance about five years or so back? I find it rather unusual that the fare-gates are being relocated to the bottom of the escalators... and into an area that is rather tight for pedestrian movement and therefore not as friendly for crowd management. I wouldn't mind so much if the underground concourse were widened quite a bit during construction, but that doesn't appear to be happening.

Also, I think they should do something about the lighting in the Seymour St entrance underground walkways while they are at it... they seem rather uninviting to walk through due to the darkness. =S

officedweller · #**1274** Posted: **Oct 3, 2011, 1:29 AM**

Dunsmuir entrance?

Waders · #**1275** Posted: **Oct 3, 2011, 2:08 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

Actually that makes me wonder if the renovation on the Metropolis at Metrotown side of the overpass is for the temporary installation of fare-gates and vending machines while they continue to work on those upgrade plans...

It would be interesting to see how faregate can be installed at Metrotown station without the expansion of the concourse level next to the footbridge.

Even the underutilized West entrance at Patterson station is being expanded in order to fit the faregate in.

Mac Write · #**1276** Posted: **Oct 3, 2011, 2:56 AM**

What are the plans for the Metrotown elevator enterance?

Waders · #**1277** Posted: **Oct 3, 2011, 3:01 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac Write

What are the plans for the Metrotown elevator enterance?

Work hasn't started yet. I would guess work would be kept to a mimimum for the faregate project because of the planned station upgrade. However even if the "Moving Forward" 2012 Supplemental Plan and Outlook is approved by the Mayors' Council on Regional Transportation on Oct. 7, the upgrade work won't start until 2013. The timeline between the 2 projects don't match. May be some work can be done to prepare for the station upgrade?
The station upgrade improvement will include:

Quote:

from the Supplemental Plan:
• a new station house to serve transfer movements to a new bus exchange,
• reconfigured and expanded bus exchange immediately below the station,
• down escalators from the platform,
• expanded elevator capacity,
• elimination of the stairs between the elevated pedestrian walkway and mezzanine at the east
side of the station,
• implementation of faregates,
• realignment of BC parkway path system as it passes through station area, and
• improvements within 800m of the station to enhance station access, subject to municipal cost share and development/update of an area plan.

Strange to see the "implementation of faregates" is in the supplmental plan. Does this imply it won't be done before 2013?

officedweller · #**1278** Posted: **Oct 3, 2011, 9:09 PM**

You'd still need something in place - since passengers boarding at Metrotwn will need to use farecards to exit at other stations on the system

Zassk · #**1279** Posted: **Oct 3, 2011, 9:38 PM**

Fare gates are not going online until 2013 anyway, I thought, so this schedule will still fit.

BCPhil · #**1280** Posted: **Oct 6, 2011, 11:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

Actually that makes me wonder if the renovation on the Metropolis at Metrotown side of the overpass is for the temporary installation of fare-gates and vending machines while they continue to work on those upgrade plans...

Is it just me or did TransLink forget something about fare-gates when it built the Seymour St entrance about five years or so back? I find it rather unusual that the fare-gates are being relocated to the bottom of the escalators... and into an area that is rather tight for pedestrian movement and therefore not as friendly for crowd management. I wouldn't mind so much if the underground concourse were widened quite a bit during construction, but that doesn't appear to be happening.

Also, I think they should do something about the lighting in the Seymour St entrance underground walkways while they are at it... they seem rather uninviting to walk through due to the darkness. =S

I wouldn't be surprised if they put most of the ticket vending machines on the mall side of the walkway, while leaving maybe one in the current concourse. That would make a decent amount of space for gates (or simple validators if that is all the use). I think because of the escalator being the only way up you need fewer enter gates as there is always a larger flood of people leaving the platform (at all hours it seems). The escalator already holds people up, so I don't think gates will slow down entering the station, but leaving will definitely be slow, no matter what.

As for Dunsmuir, I think there is enough space there for gates, especially if they are configurable bi-directional. That way most could be set up to exit in the morning and enter in the evening. It also depends on where exactly they put the gates. They could put them where the hall forks, so you have a bank of gates for each platform, or you can have fewer gates (save some money) where it is still one hall. But I would leave most of the vending machines on the upper level, and just have 1 machine on the bottom level (so if you forget to buy a card or something before the escalator, you can enjoy a longer line).