Compass & Fare Gates Discussion | u/c

[SpongeG]

speaking of fare evasion, most of the time when i see the security come onto the train to check tickets it seems 99% of the time its women who are caught without proof of fare, i was just on the train yesterday and they caught two and took em off the train, both of them women

[DKaz]

In Tokyo, I always left my Suica IO Card in my wallet. Just once or twice in a month the card didn't read properly and I held up the line a couple of seconds to remove the card from the wallet to directly touch the reader. It was no worse than the magnetic stripe reader for non cash fares and older style commuter cards, those things took 2 seconds at least. At least it spit out the ticket on the other side of the gate so you didn't really have to stop, just slow down, but the person behind couldn't insert the ticket until the person in front's ticket was retrieved.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by DKaz

It was no worse than the magnetic stripe reader for non cash fares and older style commuter cards, those things took 2 seconds at least.

...or up to 10 seconds if the person using it can't figure out which way it's supposed to go into the reader. That's a huge benefit to contactless cards - there's usually no "wrong" way to hold it.

[Pinion]

Considering how many people I see struggling to figure out how to use the turnstiles at the seabus (which are purely for counting purposes), I find anything other than "it will be a complete clusterfuck" hard to believe.

[WBC]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Considering how many people I see struggling to figure out how to use the turnstiles at the seabus (which are purely for counting purposes), I find anything other than "it will be a complete clusterfuck" hard to believe.

Yup. Especially in non commuter times. For example, when Metrotown mall empties on the weekend. Or when shoppers and commuters start to mingle at 5pm. Not all the stations, but some will be. But we shall see...At least we might get rid of bums on trains.

[Vestry]

Originally Posted by WBC

At least we might get rid of bums on trains.

It really won't. As anyone in New York or Chicago can tell you: turnstile jumpin ain't no thang.

[crazyjoeda]

Fare evasion could be all but eliminated at no additional costs to TransLink with some simple policy changes. First, all attendants and transit cops should ask everyone they see for a proof of a valid fare. I usually see attendants and the transit police just hanging out and I understand their role as a security presence but they should also be checking fares. Second, failure to pay fare evasion fines should carry the same punishments as failure to pay a speeding ticket, which I believe is quite a serious offence.

[Dave2]

Ticket Machines at Brentwood were moved out of the entranceway to the east wall between the escalators today (April 13)... I still think having only three faregates + 1 "wide" faregate is going to be a bottleneck.

[ryanmaccdn]

Clearly Cubic or whomever is installing these units has a huge track record of doing these type of things in many of the busiest metro's around the world. So I think it would be safe to say they have a calculation of how many people per gate can handle ect during rush times.

I agree with the previous poster.... Toronto at best has 4 gates going one direction at large downtown stations. On top of that this new NFC system should eliminate slow-downs due to its tag and go nature.

Let's look at the Metrotown argument... Metrotown and Yorkdale malls are pretty similar in many ways. Traffic, location to major metro station.... If my memory serves me they have only 2 entrance gates and maybe 3 exit gates at any given time.

They seem to have things under control.

The only argument I could see with Metrotown becoming a cluster f*ck would be its layout... but that should be fixed with the reno.

We chose a system that has a proven track record, is as low maintenance as possible and is a very independent.

Given the fact that pretty much all Metro system in density growing cities have faregates it was inevitable.

Also the argument of having the transit cops/skytrain attendants checking every single ticket isn't possible... maybe in China that sorta pressure for employees fly's but I don't see anyone 30+ yr old union employee holding the diligence to do the work needed for that.

[Dave2]

Originally Posted by ryanmaccdn

Clearly Cubic or whomever is installing these units has a huge track record of doing these type of things in many of the busiest metro's around the world. So I think it would be safe to say they have a calculation of how many people per gate can handle ect during rush times.

I agree with the previous poster.... Toronto at best has 4 gates going one direction at large downtown stations. On top of that this new NFC system should eliminate slow-downs due to its tag and go nature.

Let's look at the Metrotown argument... Metrotown and Yorkdale malls are pretty similar in many ways. Traffic, location to major metro station.... If my memory serves me they have only 2 entrance gates and maybe 3 exit gates at any given time.

They seem to have things under control.

The only argument I could see with Metrotown becoming a cluster f*ck would be its layout... but that should be fixed with the reno.

We chose a system that has a proven track record, is as low maintenance as possible and is a very independent.

Given the fact that pretty much all Metro system in density growing cities have faregates it was inevitable.

Also the argument of having the transit cops/skytrain attendants checking every single ticket isn't possible... maybe in China that sorta pressure for employees fly's but I don't see anyone 30+ yr old union employee holding the diligence to do the work needed for that.

Time will tell.... 6 gates at Renfrew, 7 at VCC Clark, but only 4 at Brentwood seems odd ... given that there's room for more if the ticket machines were moved. If they're unidirectional, one "entry" gate will probably suffice, leaving 3 exit gates to serve the PM rush crowds. I'd like to see ridership numbers at Brentwood, it's anecdotal, but in the 7 years since I moved to Brentwood the platforms are noticeably busier.. .. One useful change, the 4 MK-1 units changed where they stop, so there's two paths to the exit stairs instead of one... that tweak only took 10 years...

[allan_kuan]

I think that... the station layouts, and not necessarily the station capacity and usage numbers, are being used to determine how many fare-gates are put in.

I mean... VCC Clark, the station that I usually use a lot, will have two separate rows of faregates for each platform, with three gates per row. This is because the main entrance is too narrow for a central bank of faregates.

Compare to say Brentwood, which is a heck of a lot busier but only has four gates being installed? That's probably because the gates are going in where the shared entrance for both platforms is. Sounds cheap, but it'll probably frustrate people on the day it becomes active.

[Metro-One]

I was talking to one of the attendants on the Canada Line today about only installing 5 gates at Broadway, and he said that they will be using the 3 month trial period to test and see if more gates are needed.
Thats what he told me, if it is true, we will find out later.

[Jimbo604]

"Faregates at two SkyTrain stations fall victim to TransLink budget squeeze"
Province newspaper article
By SUSAN LAZARUK, The Province April 17, 2012 1:29 PM

Fare gates at Main Street and Metrotown stations put on hold until more funds are found following the rejection of fare hike and a property tax raise. The funds are needed, apparently, because of the extensive renovations required at these two stations in order to accommodate fare gates.

[st7860]

oops! main street+metrotown station won't have faregates because there's no funding available.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Tra...344/story.html

[deasine]

Originally Posted by Jimbo604

"Faregates at two SkyTrain stations fall victim to TransLink budget squeeze"
Province newspaper article
By SUSAN LAZARUK, The Province April 17, 2012 1:29 PM

Fare gates at Main Street and Metrotown stations put on hold until more funds are found following the rejection of fare hike and a property tax raise. The funds are needed, apparently, because of the extensive renovations required at these two stations in order to accommodate fare gates.

That's sort of twisting the facts to make the point. I mean, would you want TransLink to install fare gates now and have to rip them off after station renovations?

[officedweller]

You will still have to "tap on" tap off" at Main Street and Metrotown:

Upgrades for several SkyTrain stations, including Main Street, Surrey Central and Metrotown, as well as Lonsdale Quay, to provide more capacity and to install faregates as part of TransLink's $171-million faregate system, which will roll out next year, are also affected. Jarvis noted two stations -- Metrotown and Main Street -- won't have faregates when the program starts next year because they require significant upgrades and there's no money available, although he said this was intentional.

'The stations, which will be upgraded when the money is available, will, however, have readers for the Compass cards, which can be used to access all transit services including buses, SkyTrain, West Coast Express and SeaBus.

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Tra...#ixzz1sLS13OcH

[Jimbo604]

Seems a bit odd that this wasn't mentioned up until today, right before the fare gates are to be installed in May, don't you think?

[Metro-One]

I think the reason for that is all the local children, i mean mayors, have once again turned their back on helping to fund translink, therefore eradicating the money needed to properly renovate Metrotown and Main Street stations.

Pisses me off really.

and this recent move is only going to make relations between the cities worse. Now that it looks like the Evergreen Line is going through for sure (the key phrase here is "Looks Like") the mayors north of the Fraser have now turned their backs on those south of the Fraser, taking away all of their new bus hours and rapid buses.

So the question is, does anyone really expect cooperation from south of the river come Broadway extension time now???

Short answer, nope!

All transit power / funding should be taken out of the mayor's hands and firmly with the province alone, but then, the province seems no better at times.

Oh well, thank you mayors for a half completed fare gate system!

[s211]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I think the reason for that is all the local children, i mean mayors, have once again turned their back on helping to fund translink, therefore eradicating the money needed to properly renovate Metrotown and Main Street stations.

Pisses me off really.

and this recent move is only going to make relations between the cities worse. Now that it looks like the Evergreen Line is going through for sure (the key phrase here is "Looks Like") the mayors north of the Fraser have now turned their backs on those south of the Fraser, taking away all of their new bus hours and rapid buses.

So the question is, does anyone really expect cooperation from south of the river come Broadway extension time now???

Short answer, nope!

All transit power / funding should be taken out of the mayor's hands and firmly with the province alone, but then, the province seems no better at times.

Oh well, thank you mayors for a half completed fare gate system!

You'd to think that the mayors are just playing high stakes poker/blackmail. "Give us money, or you won't get yours."

[bardak]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I think the reason for that is all the local children, i mean mayors, have once again turned their back on helping to fund translink, therefore eradicating the money needed to properly renovate Metrotown and Main Street stations.

Pisses me off really.

and this recent move is only going to make relations between the cities worse. Now that it looks like the Evergreen Line is going through for sure (the key phrase here is "Looks Like") the mayors north of the Fraser have now turned their backs on those south of the Fraser, taking away all of their new bus hours and rapid buses.

So the question is, does anyone really expect cooperation from south of the river come Broadway extension time now???

Short answer, nope!

All transit power / funding should be taken out of the mayor's hands and firmly with the province alone, but then, the province seems no better at times.

Oh well, thank you mayors for a half completed fare gate system!

This isn't just the mayors. The province is just as much to blame for shooting down funding option before the report is even finished.