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  #21  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2010, 10:08 PM
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if you allow it, punctuation can be your friend.
it could i suppose if i knew it
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  #22  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2010, 10:17 PM
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perhaps i've been watching too much of my complete West Wings series boxed set, but......

would it be possible for the "infighting" to be all set up. or perhaps some more machiavellian move?
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  #23  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2010, 10:50 PM
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The resignation of BC New Democrat leader Carole James gives the Liberal party a fighting chance to win the next election, according to one political pundit.

Simon Fraser University professor emeritus Gary Mauser told ctvbc.ca the political fracturing within the New Democrat party, ending with today's announcement its leader is stepping down, will push voters to the Liberals.

"They're a shoe-in now because the NDP is self destructing," Mauser said. "This is reminiscent of the NDP mutiny back in the Bob Skelly days. I think the party is shooting itself in the foot politically."
http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/l...shColumbiaHome
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  #24  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2010, 11:18 PM
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Pundits also said the NDP were done when they were decimated to 2 seats. When it's 2 party politics, you can't count out one half of the political picture. Were there more than 2 parties, I would say the NDP are in a bad position. But people forget that we there is a demand for a centre-left to left party to rally behind.
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  #25  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2010, 11:21 PM
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Coverage of BC politics has even reached Seattle, albeit a blog from a newspaper.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepol...ves/230763.asp
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  #26  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2010, 11:41 PM
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I'm wondering if we might see a COPE/Vision style split with the BC NDP. There's a number of NDPers that probably don't care that they don't have much appeal to the majority of the electorate and would rather stay hard left. It's that group that will always hurt the NDP's electability.

Some people might argue that two left-leaning parties will split the vote but I think that by getting rid of the hard left, the NDP might actually help its chances.
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  #27  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2010, 11:45 PM
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Oh boy, this is really heating up! Two leaders resigning in a matter of 2 months of each other... Canadian politics just got interesting!
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  #28  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2010, 1:05 AM
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Originally Posted by nova9 View Post
perhaps i've been watching too much of my complete West Wings series boxed set, but......

would it be possible for the "infighting" to be all set up. or perhaps some more machiavellian move?
like the liberal camp behind it?

sucks - it feels like there is no real option to vote for - I hate gordon campbell too and I hated voting liberal last election but they were the only real option it seemed to me
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  #29  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2010, 2:12 AM
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Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
like the liberal camp behind it?

sucks - it feels like there is no real option to vote for - I hate gordon campbell too and I hated voting liberal last election but they were the only real option it seemed to me
i'm thinking about perhaps as an NDP tactic. A way to say that they acknowledge voter's unease at voting for her. I think ousting James viciously plays better to voters (ultimately) and certainly packs more punch than just her stepping down without much pomp. I'm just wildly speculating at the chances that the entire thing, down to the rebel caucus, being orchestrated by James herself. HAhahaha. Far fetch, I know.
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  #30  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2010, 2:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Stingray2004 View Post
The NDP has two factions within, perhaps even three. The party is very deeply divided with alot of animosity. The minority Gang of 13 just brought down the leader against the wishes of the majority of caucus against the party's own constitution.

Some NDP MLAs are calling these Gang of 13 anarchists. The current NDP party split is reminiscent of the Berger/Barrett split in the late 1960's, which tore the party apart.

And the NDP leadership contenders will now have to move left to pander to the party base, away from the centre where the voters are.

I still think the wounds are too deep for the party to make it to the next election cycle.

Interesting times indeed.
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  #31  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2010, 2:42 AM
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good old bc politics!
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  #32  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2010, 2:43 AM
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Carole James represented the moderate wing of the NDP - simple as that. She was willing to reach out to, heaven forbid, groups such as the Vancouver Board of Trade and Surrey Board of Trade.

The Gang of 13 despised her for trying to bridge the gap between the far left (public sector unions, big labour, etc) and the pro-business center and right.

Carole James could have led the NDP to a massive victory next election. Without her, they are dead in the water. Much as Jenny Kwan and her East Van constituency would like, most people in BC do not want to go back to the radical NDP years of the late 90s.

With Christy Clark announcing her bid for the Liberal leadership on Wednesday, all things are falling into place. The BC Liberals will rule the province for another decade, and that's probably a good thing for all of the skyscraper, aviation, and economic enthusiasts on this forum.

But I do lament the demise of Carole James. A true consensus-builder from a party that doesn't have many and a quality person overall. You'll be missed Carole.
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  #33  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2010, 3:06 AM
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With Ms. James’s loyalists gathered at the BC Federation of Labour headquarters, and the dissidents – making up 40 per cent of her caucus – camped out at a Steelworkers’ Union office, labour leaders Jim Sinclair and Steve Hunt spent the weekend seeking to broker a settlement that would allow the caucus to meet.

The next leader of the NDP will inherit a party and a caucus that has been mired in an internecine battle for months, with too many angry words and threats exchanged to easily reunite.

Bob Simpson, who was expelled from the NDP caucus two months ago for his criticism of Ms. James’s leadership, said the next leader of the NDP has a difficult task.

“They inherit a party in shambles, a caucus that I do not see ever coming back together again and being functional,” he said.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1826894/

Quote:
Kennedy Stewart, a political scientist at Simon Fraser University, said the months that follow Ms. James’s resignation won’t be pretty for a party that’s been plagued by infighting.

“I think they’re going to go down the rabbit hole,” he said.

“Even if there is a leader chosen by the NDP to go into the election, the factions will still be so divided that they’ll really have a tough time fighting the election,” he said. “They’ve really cut off their own head.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1827493/
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  #34  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2010, 5:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Rusty Gull View Post
Carole James represented the moderate wing of the NDP - simple as that. She was willing to reach out to, heaven forbid, groups such as the Vancouver Board of Trade and Surrey Board of Trade.

The Gang of 13 despised her for trying to bridge the gap between the far left (public sector unions, big labour, etc) and the pro-business center and right.

Carole James could have led the NDP to a massive victory next election. Without her, they are dead in the water. Much as Jenny Kwan and her East Van constituency would like, most people in BC do not want to go back to the radical NDP years of the late 90s.

With Christy Clark announcing her bid for the Liberal leadership on Wednesday, all things are falling into place. The BC Liberals will rule the province for another decade, and that's probably a good thing for all of the skyscraper, aviation, and economic enthusiasts on this forum.

But I do lament the demise of Carole James. A true consensus-builder from a party that doesn't have many and a quality person overall. You'll be missed Carole.
Indeed, its bad news who for those who hoped for a Blairite "new NDP". Look at the high quality of the MLA's who lined up behind James: Mike Farnworth, Adrian Dix and Spencer Herbert, and compare it with the rag tag bunch led by Jenny "dumber-than-a-stick" Kwan.

Will Mayor Gregor and the Hollyhock crowd swoop in an try to create a Vision BC out of the more moderate elements? Only time will tell, but the Kwan-Bob Williams faction who think they've "won" will never form a government.
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  #35  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2010, 8:04 AM
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Wow, how out there do you have to be for someone in the NDP to call you an anarchist ?
Considering that the NDP is statist and anarchism is pretty much the opposite that, I guess you could say "very"?
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  #36  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2010, 8:54 AM
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whatnext gives out the best nicknames.
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  #37  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2010, 3:48 PM
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whatnext gives out the best nicknames.
i think they're unnecessary.
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  #38  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2010, 4:12 PM
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Quote:
James Leaves Big Hole For NDP


By Keith Baldrey,
Global BC
Special to the Times
December 7, 2010 7:04 AM


The palace coup against NDP leader Carole James may have succeeded in removing her from the leadership, but it has created a giant crack in the unity of the party.

It also raises doubts about the party's ability to govern.

Make no mistake: the 13 so-called "dissident" MLAs have inflicted enormous damage on their party and on their colleagues. While there's no question James' weak leadership was a challenge for the NDP, the method used to take her out will leave scars that run deep within a party that prides itself on embracing, among other things, giving women real political power.

The party has been trying to portray itself as the "government in waiting." This is an important image to craft, as voters have to be sure they are putting a responsible, competent bunch of people in office, with control over everything from the health-care system to environmental protection to taxes.

Instead, the internal meltdown has portrayed the party as a clownish bunch willing to bend to the will of a minority driven by self-interest rather than the greater good of the majority.

Can you imagine behaving that way in government? Would an NDP premier give in to 13 dissidents in the caucus who were upset by a policy position agreed to by the majority?

One of the dissidents, Harry Lali, has said this whole episode shows it is the end of "party discipline." Given that - and given that his dissident colleagues appear to agree with him - how does James' successor fare any better dealing the caucus?

Jenny Kwan's suicide-bomber approach to forcing James out of office should give everyone in the caucus who is considering becoming interim leader serious pause for concern.

Indeed, Kwan and her colleagues' nuclear attack against James have wounded the credibility of those who backed James. The top talent of the NDP caucus (which does not include any of the dissidents, by the way) has been tainted by the anti-democratic actions of the minority.

<snip>

The shame of this is it may cost the NDP the next election.

The NDP now has to go through a potentially agonizing leadership race of its own.


Read more: http://www.abbotsfordtimes.com/news/...#ixzz17RWA3L6B
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  #39  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2010, 4:41 PM
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So if some traditional liberal supporters are parking their votes in the conservative party, where can some of the NDP suppoters park their votes?
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  #40  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2010, 5:18 PM
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The greens.
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