LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[ChelseaFC]

A Ross is about right for that area right now. An Express or H&M would be completely out of its element. The most important thing is another vacancy is being eliminated, and in a building with a nice facade nonetheless. Slowly but surely, the area will improve. "Sixth Broadway" can't happen overnight.

[Kingofthehill]

A recently-finished loft conversion on 4th St./Alameda, in the Arts District:



The affordable housing project on Main, near 5th St.:



Loft conversion of another, formerly industrial building. This time in the Historic Core, on Winston, between Main and Los Angeles Streets:

Previously (June '09):



Now:

[LA/OCman]

Originally Posted by ChelseaFC

A Ross is about right for that area right now. An Express or H&M would be completely out of its element. The most important thing is another vacancy is being eliminated, and in a building with a nice facade nonetheless. Slowly but surely, the area will improve. "Sixth Broadway" can't happen overnight.

Frankly I think the Ross coming to Broadway is a good thing for now. To me the worst part of Broadway is walking down the street and seeing the old metal doors shuttered and the facades dirty with crappy signage. Plus, Ross has their Los Angeles buyers located on 9th Street Downtown as well. It sounds like this concept may be different. I don't think we will see a Nordstrom or Bloomies anytime soon...most likely they would locate closer to LA Live. Broadway closes up at 6:00PM. Hopefully, with all the other developments, we will see more retail staying open later. At least Ross sells more than tube socks and faux fragrances. I can see a Fresh and Easy on Broadway as well as Forever 21. Alternative Apparel has an office where Main and Spring come together..how about a retail shop on Broadway? I believe they just opened one in Venice.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by ChelseaFC

The most important thing is another vacancy is being eliminated, and in a building with a nice facade nonetheless.

In the past, it was ironic that the bldgs or parts of dt that would be better off with fully leased stores & bldgs instead were stuck with lots of vacancies, while a street like broadway, which would be better off with mainly vacancies, somehow held onto slummy swapmeets yr after yr after yr.

btw, all the talk about a "department" store coming to broadway a few months ago apparently was a reference to Ross. The city council member who started the talk at that time confirmed it yesterday.

The joke is on all of us who were debating last yr whether even a kohl's, much less a target or kmart, qualified for the label of "dept" store. now that I know that ross is the store the insiders were hinting at, even kohls seems like a super, true "department" store by comparison. We also assumed the possible store was going to be located in the large bldg on broadway where may co used to be located. again, the joke is on me ---->

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Kingofthehill

A recently-finished loft conversion on 4th St./Alameda, in the Arts District:

Thanks for the pics, KOTH. I always wonder why a city like NY or chicago, or cities across the atlantic, can have bldgs or districts like the one shown in your pic but without as much of the grit. then again, they put trains below grade in such towns, while we can't manage to place much more than sewage lines down there.

[pesto]

Originally Posted by citywatch

In the past, it was ironic that the bldgs or parts of dt that would be better off with fully leased stores & bldgs instead were stuck with lots of vacancies, while a street like broadway, which would be better off with mainly vacancies, somehow held onto slummy swapmeets yr after yr after yr.

btw, all the talk about a "department" store coming to broadway a few months ago apparently was a reference to Ross. The city council member who started the talk at that time confirmed it yesterday.

The joke is on all of us who were debating last yr whether even a kohl's, much less a target or kmart, qualified for the label of "dept" store. now that I know that ross is the store the insiders were hinting at, even kohls seems like a super, true "department" store by comparison. We also assumed the possible store was going to be located in the large bldg on broadway where may co used to be located. again, the joke is on me ---->

This is an area where having hopes too high will just lead to disappointment. I would guess that upscale shopping DT is a long way off. The retail strength of Pasadena, Glendale and the westside is too much for an area with the very low income levels of DT to overcome. Like it or not, the demographic is still primarily working class Asian and Hispanic and the income level among the lowest in the city.

The real goal for DT is to have safe streets, fewer homeless, cultural landmarks, active nightlife and reasonable quality shops and schools; it's NOT to displace BH and SM.

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by citywatch

Thanks for the pics, KOTH. I always wonder why a city like NY or chicago, or cities across the atlantic, can have bldgs or districts like the one shown in your pic but without as much of the grit. then again, they put trains below grade in such towns, while we can't manage to place much more than sewage lines down there.

I think you are very misguided. First of all, New York is the world capital for grit. Yes, it is an amazing city, but it is grimy and dirty beyond belief. Chicago spends tons of money cleaning its downtown core, yes, but beyond that, it becomes just as 'gritty' as any other city. Moreover, how do subways have anything to do with grit? If anything, (and I'm not saying its better to have a at-grade light rail train then a subway from a practicality and effectiveness standpoint) having an above ground train with trees, landscaping, new streets, and new sidewalks, would make an area less gritty.

Originally Posted by pesto

This is an area where having hopes too high will just lead to disappointment. I would guess that upscale shopping DT is a long way off.

Actually, what you should be saying is that having high end shopping on Broadway is a long way off. High end shopping in the rest of downtown is already here. Just walk down Spring, or 7th, and you will see half a dozen high-end botiques, from SkinGraft to Clave, to the new one next to Bottega Louie (which name I have forgotten).

In fact, I would say that high end shopping will be hitting Broadway soon, but not around where the Ross is going in. I would say more around where the Orpheum is, and where the Ace Hotel will be, for over there, I must say, it is poppin. I mean, there are, what, four separate restaurants being built over there right now? Plus, a hotel? Not bad at all.

[DistrictDirt]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

... to the new one next to Bottega Louie (which name I have forgotten).

Brigade.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by ChelseaFC

A Ross is about right for that area right now. An Express or H&M would be completely out of its element. The most important thing is another vacancy is being eliminated, and in a building with a nice facade nonetheless. Slowly but surely, the area will improve. "Sixth Broadway" can't happen overnight.

I don't see why some people are getting all bent that a Ross is going in. After all, that building originally had a Woolworth's; that wasn't exactly upscale either. And back then, Broadway had something for EVERYBODY, which in my opinion, a good downtown has.
1942

LAPL

1953

LAPL

[alki]

Originally Posted by citywatch

alki, I was motivated out of curiosity about whether bldgs or newer devlpt in seattle was consistently or somehow always better than in LA. To be truthful, I'm not bowled over by most american cities, so I feel if LA doesn't compare favorably with most of them, then this part of the country must be in pretty sad shape.

as for debates or posts that compare LA with other cities, they don't bother me cuz I feel defensive about the city. I'm bothered cuz I think one doesn't have to know anything about any other city to know there are things about LA that need lots of improvement. As I said before, I recall being by various hoods in LA well before I knew, or cared about, what other cities were like. I think most ppl are like that too. IOW, they don't come to LA & say "I don't like this town cuz there's more parking space here than in SF or NYC!"

My point was that looking at random photos does not begin to give one a feel for a city. I could provide this site a series of photos that would suggest Seattle is the most beautiful city in the county and another set that clearly says otherwise. To me, you don't get the flavor of a city until you walk its streets.

That's one reason why I think the critic who criticized the concert hall on bunker hill for having too much parking was deluded. He claimed that the reason few ppl were hanging around after a concert, compared with what happens at the hall in SF, was cuz most ppl drove to Disney Hall. That's a silly assumption to me, cuz I know whenever I'm in dtla, I almost ALWAYS feel uneasy about being there, or hesitant about sticking around, not cuz of big underground parking lots, but cuz too much of the hood still is not much better than this....

maps.google.com

On that I can agree with you...........the kind of people that would patronize Disney Hall probably believe that DTLA is very dangerous place to be in after dark. After all, Bunker HIll was developed to provide a safe haven for the affluent in DTLA. What's extraordinarily demoralizing is that after nearly 50 years, there is so much vacant land on Bunker Hill. So much for American city building.

[QUOTE]However, the one good criticism that ppl can make about parking structures or parking requirements is if they cause a proj to be too $$$ & therefore harder to pencil out & be built. But I still remember reading that owners of certain old office bldgs on Spring or broadway were having a hard time getting funding to convert them to lofts, regardless of city codes. So the reason didn't have anything to do with what the city demanded but due to banks not wanting to give loans if there wasn't enough parking space for future tenants or condo owners. So in that case it wasn't even the city that was putting a freeze on adding more new housing or other new devlpt to dtla.[/QUOTE]

Whether true or not, many bankers and developers still have the mindset that without adequate parking, projects will fail. Perceptions are changing but very, very slowly. And this country still has few cities where not having a car is feasible. More importantly, fighting the 'money' people is worse than fighting city hall.

[alki]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

Illithid Dude:


My bold prediction for 2012 is that economic growth is going to be much stronger than anyone expected. Construction activity is picking up in metro areas nationwide. Manufacturing is rebounding. Auto sales at the end of last year were pretty strong. Last year, the US was a net energy exporter for the first time in sixty years. The rate of job growth is increasing.

There can still be external shocks (China's economy falters, high oil prices, European problems) but I think the prediction above that 2012 may be like the boom of 2005 is not outlandish at all.

I tend to agree with you. The economic data the last couple of months have been decidedly bullish.

[alki]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

Lastly, concerning the deep Historic Core (Broadway, Spring, and Main,) I'd love to see some 150 foot buildings go up in that area, fill in some parking lots. 150 feet, you might ask? Well, let me tell you why. First off, it is cheaper then making a 500 foot building, and thus, more feasible. Secondly, I feel very strongly about maintaining the historic high limit of the historic core, so that it may maintain its character. Don't get me wrong, I love high-rises, but there is plenty of other places in DTLA to build them. Plus, I could totally see the historic core being filled up with innovative modern architecture, like so many European neighborhoods of dense, low-rise buildings are.

EDIT: Oh, and the old AT&T Tower! How could I forget? That is the one thing that is making downtown office vacancy rates so high. Another good choice for an apartment conversion, or maybe even a hotel conversion. W does have a penchant for adaptive reuse. If they didn't want to build a brand-new building for a hotel, then perhaps the AT&T tower would be perfect for them.

I like the way you think.

And I think the AT&T bldg is another interesting tower in DTLA.

[alki]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

Are you referring to this building?

http://www.firstpost.com/topic/organ...1tX-406-1.html

Not that I've been keeping up with it, but I assume it's still a telephone exchange switching station? I wouldn't doubt that the microwave tower isn't being used anymore, but is it vacant or something?

Oops! That's not the one I thought was the AT&T bldg. I meant the one on the southside of Pershing Square where the support beams are exposed on the bottom two floors and its 30-40 stories. I think it would make interesting B class offices for architects and the like.

[alki]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

Ah OK. Funny, I actually forgot that this used to house AT&T. I actually remember when it used to be the Crocker Bank building. My sister worked in this building in the early 1990s for about a year.

Yeah, it's been vacant for a very long time now, it seems. I also thought that at one point, there were plans to turn this into a residential tower.

If that's the building on the southside of Pershing Square.......the one I am thinking of....I can't believe its been vacant. That's sad. It would make sense if DTLA was Detroit but its not.

[JDRCRASH]

^ Oh okay. You're talking about the City National Bank tower.

[alki]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

I don't see why some people are getting all bent that a Ross is going in. After all, that building originally had a Woolworth's; that wasn't exactly upscale either. And back then, Broadway had something for EVERYBODY, which in my opinion, a good downtown has.
1942

I agree with you. I was really pleased when JC Penney announced they were coming back to DT Seattle. You want diversity........that's what makes downtowns exciting and different from more insular neighborhoods and shopping malls.

The other aspect is that if you want the vacant lots in DT to disappear you first have to fill the vacant buildings. Too many vacant bldgs sap the strength of neighborhoods. I don't know Ross so I can't comment on the quality of its stuff but if they fix up that attractive bldg, then I would be very happy.

One last comment.........the comeback of a neighborhood is very organic. To my mind its the most exciting time where anything is possible. And if the historic core gets completely redone and Pershing Square does as well, land values will increase thoughout DT, making it inevitable that Broadway will upgrade.

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by alki

On that I can agree with you...........the kind of people that would patronize Disney Hall probably believe that DTLA is very dangerous place to be in after dark.

Not really. I don't really like talking about economic status and such, and obviously I am not personally a wealthy man (being in high school, having no full time job <though I do work at a bookstore on Sunday>), but my parents, I guess, would be considered '1%', in terms of wealth. I always get a a sense of discomfort when talking about such things, and generally avoid doing so, but I think that the information I just said will help me make this point. And what is this point? That not all wealthy Westsiders feel that downtown is dangerous. Not even most of them. If anything, I would say it is about half and half. The consensus around here seems to be that those who would frequent the high-end stores that we want downtown, or would live in the luxury lofts we want built downtown, don't exist, as the wealthy don't like downtown, or don't feel safe there. This is not so. I've talked to literally dozens of people who fit those categories and like downtown, or feel safe there. Some of which have even invested, or wish to invest, in downtown, due to their love of it. And even more people like downtown when referring the younger generation, my generation. Every friend who I have brought downtown leaves really loving it, if they have not done so already. Those uper-crust Westsiders aren't as closed minded and suburban as you might think. And, like I said, I really don't like talking about such things, and shining myself in such a light, but I felt like this misconception must be corrected. It's just sort of being bugging me.

Also, everyone seems to love the food downtown, but that is sort of besides the point. People in my school sometimes just randomly start talking about Bottega Louie, or Mas Malo (which surprised me, Mas Malo, I mean, not that it inst good, but that it is so well known). I always find such conversations funny.

Originally Posted by alki

If that's the building on the southside of Pershing Square.......the one I am thinking of....I can't believe its been vacant. That's sad. It would make sense if DTLA was Detroit but its not.

It's not. You are thinking of a government building, one that is currently in use. The AT&T building I am referring to is on 6th and Grand.

[alki]

Originally Posted by Kingofthehill

A recently-finished loft conversion on 4th St./Alameda, in the Arts District:



The affordable housing project on Main, near 5th St.:



Loft conversion of another, formerly industrial building. This time in the Historic Core, on Winston, between Main and Los Angeles Streets:

Previously (June '09):



Now:

DTLA is finally getting the quality do overs it deserves. I really like the rehab of the first building photo on top.

[alki]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

Not really. I don't really like talking about economic status and such, and obviously I am not personally a wealthy man (being in high school, having no full time job <though I do work at a bookstore on Sunday>), but my parents, I guess, would be considered '1%', in terms of wealth. I always get a a sense of discomfort when talking about such things, and generally avoid doing so, but I think that the information I just said will help me make this point. And what is this point? That not all wealthy Westsiders feel that downtown is dangerous. Not even most of them. If anything, I would say it is about half and half. The consensus around here seems to be that those who would frequent the high-end stores that we want downtown, or would live in the luxury lofts we want built downtown, don't exist, as the wealthy don't like downtown, or don't feel safe there. This is not so. I've talked to literally dozens of people who fit those categories and like downtown, or feel safe there. Some of which have even invested, or wish to invest, in downtown, due to their love of it. And even more people like downtown when referring the younger generation, my generation. Every friend who I have brought downtown leaves really loving it, if they have not done so already. Those uper-crust Westsiders aren't as closed minded and suburban as you might think. And, like I said, I really don't like talking about such things, and shining myself in such a light, but I felt like this misconception must be corrected. It's just sort of being bugging me.

I definitely think attitudes are changing albeit very slowly. I worked on the Westside in the 90s and while I didn't hang with the 1%, my friends and colleagues were definitely affluent and on their way up, and they wouldn't have been caught dead in DTLA. Rarely could I get them to go DT. And you have to remember, Bunker Hill was first developed in the 60s and 70s. Again, it was meant as an island of safety amidst a DT of chaos. And then there was the Boniventure Hotel. Why do you think the focus is inward, not the street? It was meant to look like a fortress to reassure its customers.

I don't mean to denigrate the affluent but they frequently determine the fate of the big projects. When Disney Hall was built, their attitudes definitely were taken into consideration and it was believed, rightly or wrongly, there had to be parking very closeby. I glad to read that their POV is changing. It will be them that ultimately determine the fate of DTLA.........and your generation.

Also, everyone seems to love the food downtown, but that is sort of besides the point. People in my school sometimes just randomly start talking about Bottega Louie, or Mas Malo (which surprised me, Mas Malo, I mean, not that it inst good, but that it is so well known). I always find such conversations funny.

That's why restaurants [and artists] typically spark a neighborhood's revival. When SM decided to turn around Third they literally seeded the street with theaters and restaurants. After those places became successes, other retail joined the fray. For good food, adventurous urbanists/hipsters will go into the worst neighborhoods.

{QUOTE]It's not. You are thinking of a government building, one that is currently in use. The AT&T building I am referring to is on 6th and Grand.[/QUOTE]

Yes, you're right........... do you know which building I mean? I tried to find a photo in google but with no luck

[alki]

Originally Posted by JDRCRASH

^ Oh okay. You're talking about the City National Bank tower.

Yup. That's it. Thanks.

Its not as nice as I remembered it but I do like the open area at the bottom. I would have like to have 'played' with it.