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Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > SSP: Local Vancouver > Transportation & Infrastructure

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  #41  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2011, 5:01 AM
Space Space is offline
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I was wondering if they can replace expo line with Wider cars rather than extend the platforms (which they plan to do soon).

I remember reading somewhere a long time ago that the skytrain line was built so they could be widened. For example, at the platforms....there is a yellow plastic/metal siding that overhangs the concrete. If I remember correctly....these could be removed to allow wider cars. Of course ALL cars would have to be changed. I am unsure if the track needs to be adjusted. I know wider cars exist because some skytrain lines in other cities (eg...i think beijing) use the wider skytrain cars.

I dont' think wider Mark I cars were ever produced....but I know for certain wider Mark II cars were made.

If Expo can be widened...this would be the best time. Buy wider cars for expo, put all the current narrow stock on Millenium/Evergreen (ie, don't need to buy cars for evergreen), and just renovate the Expo stations to fit the wide cars (ie remove the yellow plastic/metal sidings) thus mitigating the need to expensively lengthen the Expo platforms.

I think wide trains would fit more and be more comfortable than super long 8 car MARK I or 6 car MARK II narrow skytrains on lengthened platforms.

The only downside is that Expo line would be permanently seperated from Millenium and Evergreen lines.....which I don't really think is a huge problem...and will be fixed when years later....we widen the Millenium and Evergreen lines too when capacity becomes an issue.
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  #42  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2011, 5:02 AM
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ps....does anyone remember the fact that Skytrain can be widened easily? I completely don't remember where I learned that and cannot find my source.
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  #43  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2011, 5:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Space View Post
ps....does anyone remember the fact that Skytrain can be widened easily? I completely don't remember where I learned that and cannot find my source.
Parts of it, sure.. but there are definitely some sections (most obvious is the tunnel under downtown) where it wouldn't be easy.
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  #44  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2011, 6:09 PM
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Personally, as much as I would love to have some MarkIII trains (they look amazing), I think that first we should order some C-cars for the MarkII's. It just doesn't make sense to have them operating as 2+2, there is so much wasted space and lengthening the platforms for 2+2+2 is huge waste of space and money. They should first got to 3+2 trains, then if they need to lengthen the platforms, go all the way so that 4+4 (which is probably only a bit longer than 2+2+2, maybe 10-15m or so if the c-cars are a bit shorter an A and B cars) trains can fit in to have capacity in the future to first switch to 3+3 and 3+4 trainsets.
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  #45  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2011, 7:01 PM
Robert in Calgary Robert in Calgary is offline
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Very interesting.

A quick note of thanks to Mac Write for the video links.
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  #46  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2011, 11:44 PM
officedweller officedweller is online now
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Originally Posted by BCPhil View Post
That's what I'm getting at. We need new cars now, and especially when Evergreen opens, so we need to buy something in the near future. And further into the future, 4 car (2+2) MKII trains will not be long enough to handle demand. So our options are to either maximize space utilization and use 5 car trains, which will require a new type of car (C car). Without that we will have to expand platforms to handle 6 car trains (2+2+2)....
The other option that you don't mention is to allow the system to become overcrowded due to continued use of 4 car (2+2) MKII trains (without platform extensions), and then purchasing 5 car (3 + 2) trains in the future.

That's the trade-off - (1) maximizing efficiency (with a concurrent domino effect adding costs for on software upgrades for new train lengths, etc. and new/expanded maintenance facilities) or (2) control current expenditures (buying A+B trains with no concurrent domino effect) and deal with capcity issues later.

In the long term, when Evergreen and the UBC extensions are built, that route could still use 4 car (2+2) MKII trains since it wouldn't be as busy at the Expo Line.

*******

BTW - I don't think the Evergereen will have a new maintenance facility - just a storage yard.
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  #47  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2011, 12:15 AM
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Question a question ..... please.

I tried looking it up, but could not find the info, so, again, I am asking a question: How fast can these trains go, particularly on long haul stretches to the suburbs. i.e. What is their maximum normal cruising speed?

I think this is a relevant question if, as many suggest, Skytrain be extended to Langley, White Rock, etc. Thank you.
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  #48  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2011, 2:36 AM
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Originally Posted by trofirhen View Post
I tried looking it up, but could not find the info, so, again, I am asking a question: How fast can these trains go, particularly on long haul stretches to the suburbs. i.e. What is their maximum normal cruising speed?

I think this is a relevant question if, as many suggest, Skytrain be extended to Langley, White Rock, etc. Thank you.
The top speed of the Bombardier ALRT vehicles themselves is 90kph, though they never reach this speed on our system as far as I know due to short distances between stations, noise complaints, and Vancouver's hilly geography.
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  #49  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2011, 4:32 AM
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Originally Posted by GeeCee View Post
The top speed of the Bombardier ALRT vehicles themselves is 90kph, though they never reach this speed on our system as far as I know due to short distances between stations, noise complaints, and Vancouver's hilly geography.


Thank you for the info.
It would seem that if skytrain is going to be extended way out to the valley suburbs, it would be a rather slow, long commute for the outer areas.

That is why I suggested some time back that faster commuter trains going 120k/ph or even 140k would be better, as long as they tie in well to the "inner" system.
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  #50  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2011, 4:01 PM
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West Coast Express travels about 120km/h from Mission until slowing down to 85km/h for a bit through Ruskin then goes at 120km/h again until roughly around the Haney Bypass turnoff where it slows down the 85km/h and then stops at Port Haney Station. West of Port Haney Station, West Coast Express does not exceed 100km/h.

A commuter train down the middle of Hwy 1 in its own protected ROW will be able to go minimum 120km/h the entire stretch. I could see 140km/h being possible if the track is well designed. THAT will get people out of cars.
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  #51  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2011, 6:17 PM
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Originally Posted by DKaz View Post
West Coast Express travels about 120km/h from Mission until slowing down to 85km/h for a bit through Ruskin then goes at 120km/h again until roughly around the Haney Bypass turnoff where it slows down the 85km/h and then stops at Port Haney Station. West of Port Haney Station, West Coast Express does not exceed 100km/h.

A commuter train down the middle of Hwy 1 in its own protected ROW will be able to go minimum 120km/h the entire stretch. I could see 140km/h being possible if the track is well designed. THAT will get people out of cars.

Thank you for that feedback; it's encouraging.
After all, the object of the exercise is precisely to get people out of their cars and onto transit, which will only work if the transit offered is fast and time-effective.
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  #52  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2011, 2:26 AM
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Originally Posted by trofirhen View Post


Thank you for the info.
It would seem that if skytrain is going to be extended way out to the valley suburbs, it would be a rather slow, long commute for the outer areas.
A SkyTrain line from Langley would also serve double duty though - as a line into the "close" Surrey Central downtown district - which is eventually going to be the second largest downtown in the region.

Remember that most commuter trips in Metro Vancouver are very dispersed - not a central hub like Calgary, so people boarding at Langley may be headed to Surrey, New West, Metrotown, Coquitlam or other areas.
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  #53  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2011, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
A SkyTrain line from Langley would also serve double duty though - as a line into the "close" Surrey Central downtown district - which is eventually going to be the second largest downtown in the region.

Remember that most commuter trips in Metro Vancouver are very dispersed - not a central hub like Calgary, so people boarding at Langley may be headed to Surrey, New West, Metrotown, Coquitlam or other areas.

Hey, good point. Thanks, O.D.
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  #54  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2011, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by BCPhil View Post
I think the consensus is there will be 3 lines.

Waterfront - King George
Waterfront -Lougheed
VCC - Douglass

It's hard to know what they will do for sure, but this makes the most sense. Most trains will probably go to Surrey with 1 for each 3 or 4 trains going to Lougheed.

But I'm willing to bet that after a while they will use a shuttle service off peak. During peak hours there isn't enough time to turn trains around at Columbia without disrupting through trains. Heck it happens now with trains just joining the same line (there have been plenty of times when I've had to wait on the Skybridge for a train that just came out of the tunnel to finish up at Columbia).

But off peak, when trains now operate every 4 or 5 minutes, you can make every train go to Surrey, and have a shuttle operate Columbia - Lougheed. It would be a good use of resources as later in the day there is far more demand for going into Surrey than Lougheed (trains leaving Columbia for Surrey are full, for Lougheed less than half).
I'm sure ridership on the loopback route will very much increase if and when the Broadway extension happens, be it to UBC or just the Central Broadway district, not only from riders from that segment, but also from Surrey Expo Line transfers.
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  #55  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2011, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jsbertram View Post
I'm sure Translink would like to run SkyTrain faster, but the problem is faster == louder, and we already know how NIMBYs are easily upset at trains that are too loud. Some NIMBYs are fighting a losing battle to stop CN and CP engines from tooting their horns when approaching road crossings (this is Federal Jurisdiction, so the City can't do anything about it)
They'd rather have people get run over by trains than have them blow their horns in their neighbourhood?

Sounds like they're about as selfish, dog-eat-dog and screw-everyone-else as the Chinese NIMBY's who fought to have a hospice for the dying pushed away from their neighbourhood.
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  #56  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2011, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Nutterbug View Post
I'm sure ridership on the loopback route will very much increase if and when the Broadway extension happens, be it to UBC or just the Central Broadway district, not only from riders from that segment, but also from Surrey Expo Line transfers.
As mentioned before, it would be hard to interline this routing on 2 separate main lines (Expo and Evergreen), and maintain a regular schedule. It's better use of resources to have the two mainlines going, and a shuttle in between. As BCPhil mentioned, for peak service, you'd have the Waterfront-Lougheed or Waterfront-King George in place for train efficiency, but in off-peak, you could look at doing only a shuttle service between Columbia-Lougheed as there won't be as much movement through Columbia.

I personally would like during rush hour a 3 KG/1 Lougheed split, and a 2 KG/1 Lougheed split from Waterfront, I think that would provide the most transit friendly service.
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  #57  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2011, 11:01 PM
Gordon Gordon is offline
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I thought the service plan was to run the Expo Line Waterfront<> King George with some Short-turn trains at Metrotown.

Evergreen Line M line Douglas College<> VCC Clark

with a shuttle service between Columbia & Lougheed
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  #58  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2011, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by TransitFreak View Post
As mentioned before, it would be hard to interline this routing on 2 separate main lines (Expo and Evergreen), and maintain a regular schedule. It's better use of resources to have the two mainlines going, and a shuttle in between. As BCPhil mentioned, for peak service, you'd have the Waterfront-Lougheed or Waterfront-King George in place for train efficiency, but in off-peak, you could look at doing only a shuttle service between Columbia-Lougheed as there won't be as much movement through Columbia.

I personally would like during rush hour a 3 KG/1 Lougheed split, and a 2 KG/1 Lougheed split from Waterfront, I think that would provide the most transit friendly service.
Make that Production Way instead of Lougheed, for all the SFU transfers.
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  #59  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2011, 3:54 AM
Zassk Zassk is offline
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Originally Posted by Nutterbug View Post
Make that Production Way instead of Lougheed, for all the SFU transfers.
Most of those riders should be encouraged to transfer at Commercial-Broadway instead, I think. It is likely to be shorter for anyone west of Metrotown. Remember that the transfer at Commercial-Broadway will take less time with the improved frequencies after Evergreen is built.
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  #60  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2011, 3:56 AM
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Most of those riders should be encouraged to transfer at Commercial-Broadway instead, I think. It is likely to be shorter for anyone west of Metrotown. Remember that the transfer at Commercial-Broadway will take less time with the improved frequencies after Evergreen is built.
Hard to transfer at Commercial-Broadway when you're coming from Surrey don't you think? In the morning rush-hour for 8-9AM classes people are almost always left behind by the time a train reaches Lougheed coming from Columbia from my experience. Of course that's easily fixed by bumping up from the regular 4-car MKI trains and increasing frequency.
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