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  #61  
Old Posted: Jul 31, 2011, 12:43 PM
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Do you guys think they will be able to use any of the same foundation? Is there underground parking currently?
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  #62  
Old Posted: Aug 1, 2011, 1:57 AM
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Do you guys think they will be able to use any of the same foundation? Is there underground parking currently?
The old Lorne has a small parking garage, but the foundation will be completely redone. Look on the plans posted on DevApps, the new foundation will consist of three underground parking levels below the entire property. If I'm not mistaken the existing garage is just two floors under the current footprint.
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  #63  
Old Posted: Aug 3, 2011, 12:48 AM
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Pic I took July 30th, facing Elgin street.
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  #64  
Old Posted: Oct 16, 2011, 5:46 AM
kevinbottawa kevinbottawa is offline
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Kelly Egan: Opportunity being missed on Lorne Building site

Kelly Egan thinks new building at 90 Elgin is a waste of gorgeous real estate.

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Kelly Egan: Opportunity being missed on Lorne Building site

Capital may be missing an opportunity to build something magnificent on Lorne Building site

By Kelly Egan, The Ottawa Citizen OCTOBER 16, 2011 12:05AM

The building will have high visibility. This much we know. But is it, as some suggest, pretty awful-looking?

I wouldn’t go that far. It seems ordinary. But perhaps, as a native, I suffer from Ottawa disease, an inclination to embrace mediocrity.

What do you think of this new edifice?

As we write, the old Lorne Building is being torn down. You will know it. The brown-wrapped box at 90 Elgin St. used to house the National Gallery of Canada.

Called “ultra-modern” in its day, it officially opened to raves in 1960 with a white-tie event that had more than 2,000 guests, including a dapper John Diefenbaker. But how we tire of things. By 1987, the gallery was moving out; the Lorne Building never quite found its legs again. They’ve even pulled the time capsule out to rebury it another day.

But here is the bigger question: Have we, as a capital and a city, missed a grand opportunity to create a magnificent building, dedicated wholly or in part to public use, on a prime piece of downtown property?

The site faces Confederation Park. It is close to Ottawa City Hall, the National Arts Centre, the Lord Elgin Hotel, the National War Memorial, the Sparks Street Mall, the Parliamentary precinct. It is well served by transit. It will have majestic views toward the Rideau Canal.


And the federal government’s plan is to install 2,000 office workers, with the Department of Finance as the major tenant. In other words, after 5 p.m., it’s another dead pile of stone and glass in downtown Ottawa. Like we need just a little more of that.

Inasmuch as it’s important for the nation’s money counters to be kept in suitable style, is this really the best use of this site?

Can’t the financiers finance just about anywhere?

We remind readers that, within the past five years, the Lorne site was being scouted as a possible home for a central library branch. Now we’re talking. Life after 4 p.m., cultural events, readings, receptions, children’s programming, workshops and what-have-you. Live human beings actually doing something downtown, seven days and nights a week, other than eating and drinking or racing to the suburbs.

Well, we know it is not to be. A 17-storey, tiered building is about to be constructed and the feds are planning to move in sometime in 2014.

“A beautiful addition to Ottawa’s Ceremonial Route,” according to a news release from Public Works.

Architecture and urban design critic Rhys Phillips doesn’t agree. He can be quite dismissive of modern buildings and I must admit to the odd “huh?” when he’s in full oratorical flight, alighting on things like “genus loci” and such.

“I think it says absolutely nothing about us,” he says of the new building (Dialog McRobie Architects), meaning it doesn’t signal anything about Ottawa or Canada or the federal presence here in the city, (as does the swooping Canadian Museum of Civilization).

“It’s just a very dull and bland building.” And the street level, at least as can be determined from photos, he finds “alienating.”

On one level, perhaps it is just a matter of taste. Architectural dust-ups are as old as the hills. Many will no doubt love the building.

There remains, however, the discussion about whether this is the right place for a building designed for that kind of use.

Barrhaven Councillor Jan Harder is chair of the city’s library board. She said the Lorne Building site was her personal favourite in the board’s failed attempt to find a new downtown home.

It has not just national but international stature as a location in the capital, she argued. She, too, would like to see a high-profile public use there, as there is so much foot traffic along Elgin, be it locals or tourists.

“This decision was never in the hands of the people of Ottawa,” she said.

Indeed it does seem to have flown right under everybody’s radar.

On a final note, the design of the building was, according to Public Works, approved by the National Capital Commission. Makes you wonder what the NCC’s role really is as the traffic cop of federal development downtown.

The commission, you’ll recall, is embarking on a cross-Canada tour to seek input into a 50-year vision, Horizon 2067.

Meanwhile, it is allowing important sites to be devoted to glass towers to be filled with mouse-armed accountants.

Here’s a vision: The way to make Ottawa less boring is to stop filling it up with so many boring buildings in gorgeous locations where people, at the end of the day, don’t want to be bored.

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Ke...#ixzz3qCdkxA1l
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  #65  
Old Posted: Oct 16, 2011, 1:03 PM
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Originally Posted by kevinbottawa View Post
Kelly Egan thinks new building at 90 Elgin is a waste of gorgeous real estate.
FIN isn't full of accountants, it's economists.
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  #66  
Old Posted: Oct 16, 2011, 8:10 PM
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This is part of the problem in ottawa that we think every building should be a monument. A good urban building with offices and 10 new store frontages will be good urbanism for the area, filling the life gap between Sparks (only because of D'Arcy's) and Lisgar.
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  #67  
Old Posted: Oct 16, 2011, 9:24 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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On the flip side, I can't recall hearing a single person cry out for open/green/public space to be erected on the site.
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  #68  
Old Posted: Oct 17, 2011, 1:17 PM
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On the flip side, I can't recall hearing a single person cry out for open/green/public space to be erected on the site.
But on reflection, what a perfect location for the Canadian National Meadow.
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  #69  
Old Posted: Oct 17, 2011, 9:16 PM
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Given the prevailing federal planning ideology of never doing anything in Ottawa that might arouse the envy (read "attention") of tax-paying/pitch-fork-wielding mobs in any non-capital riding, this is about as good as it gets, unfortunately. Non-descript, bland, adequate. These are politically safe watchwords.
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  #70  
Old Posted: Oct 18, 2011, 5:49 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Given the prevailing federal planning ideology of never doing anything in Ottawa that might arouse the envy (read "attention") of tax-paying/pitch-fork-wielding mobs in any non-capital riding, this is about as good as it gets, unfortunately. Non-descript, bland, adequate. These are politically safe watchwords.
Have the pitchfork mobs outside Ottawa ever upped pitchforks over federal spending in Ottawa? (The literal Ottawa, not the figurative "Ottawa", as in "federal government".)

I am hard pressed to think of a single time this has ever happened. And if it has, fuggem. Figurative Ottawa spends lots of money in Pitchfork Land too.
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  #71  
Old Posted: Oct 18, 2011, 10:34 AM
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This is part of the problem in ottawa that we think every building should be a monument. A good urban building with offices and 10 new store frontages will be good urbanism for the area, filling the life gap between Sparks (only because of D'Arcy's) and Lisgar.
Could it be better sure but like you i find people want every building to be a monument.
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  #72  
Old Posted: Oct 18, 2011, 11:54 AM
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Could it be better sure but like you i find people want every building to be a monument.
wow, these battle cries for mediocrity sure are inspiring...
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  #73  
Old Posted: Oct 18, 2011, 12:54 PM
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wow, these battle cries for mediocrity sure are inspiring...
For me it's not about mediocrity, it's about use. I'm not commenting on whether the building is bland or not, but rather whether it should be office use or not. It's easy to rail against using the site as an office building, saying it should be a central library (every site seems to be where that's supposed to go), but we need office space, retail space, etc, too.

Ottawa needs to understand that not every new building should be of national importance, some should just work in the urban fabric, as this building, bland or not, does.
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  #74  
Old Posted: Oct 18, 2011, 5:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
Have the pitchfork mobs outside Ottawa ever upped pitchforks over federal spending in Ottawa? (The literal Ottawa, not the figurative "Ottawa", as in "federal government".)

I am hard pressed to think of a single time this has ever happened. And if it has, fuggem. Figurative Ottawa spends lots of money in Pitchfork Land too.
Yes, actually. I can think of several examples of such grumbling. Not the least of which was that surrounding the idea of spending money on a National Portrait Gallery in the Nation's Capital. Just wait till someone actually tries to table a budget for the new Museum of Science and Technology. Or makes the mistake of adding a decorative point to one of the federal office towers. Canadians are okay with parks and flowers in the capital and hamster-sized work cubicles for public servants. But nothing approaching public splendour (or even design excellence). At least not in recent memory. Anyway, like you say, f 'em. Literal Ottawa contributes to the public purse, too.

Your second point, that Figurative (Federal) Ottawa spends lots of money on areas outside the National Capital Region is largely overlooked. Or if it is acknowledged, it's seen as somehow the only normal/right thing to do. Of course there should be federal spending in ........... (fill in name of municipality here). But circulate the number on a pricetag for a project in Ottawa and you've got yourself a recipe for righteous indignation. The attitude is more than evident in the CBC's interviews in New Brunswick over where federal budget cuts should take place in the public service. The options were: a) All in the regions, b) All in Ottawa-Gatineau; or c) spread evenly over the country. Those interviewed were more than willing to throw Ottawa-Gatineau under a bus if it meant saving local jobs, because after all, it's a city of pampered parasites not hard-working Canadian taxpayers.

So, no love for Ottawa. And few outside the capital ever bother to entertain the idea that there might be a difference between the literal and the figurative city. Certainly no recognition from out here that Ottawa needs anything better than the Train Yards building and its ilk. Sad to see it but I do see it here (in Toronto) regularly.
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  #75  
Old Posted: Oct 18, 2011, 7:12 PM
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Originally Posted by gjhall View Post
For me it's not about mediocrity, it's about use. I'm not commenting on whether the building is bland or not, but rather whether it should be office use or not. It's easy to rail against using the site as an office building, saying it should be a central library (every site seems to be where that's supposed to go), but we need office space, retail space, etc, too.

Ottawa needs to understand that not every new building should be of national importance, some should just work in the urban fabric, as this building, bland or not, does.
I completely agree with gjhall. Kelly Egan is a writer that I really respect, but I think his analysis is off here because he is too focussed on one building. If you look at the Elgin St. area, you will see that there are a lot of exciting projects under construction. In the not too distant future you will have: e.g. new skating rink in front of city hall; new condos at the Merit and Tribeca; and new commercial space at 90 Elgin. Together, this will create a much livelier neighbourhood, which is what we all want for Ottawa.
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  #76  
Old Posted: Oct 18, 2011, 8:28 PM
reidjr reidjr is offline
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Yes, actually. I can think of several examples of such grumbling. Not the least of which was that surrounding the idea of spending money on a National Portrait Gallery in the Nation's Capital. Just wait till someone actually tries to table a budget for the new Museum of Science and Technology. Or makes the mistake of adding a decorative point to one of the federal office towers. Canadians are okay with parks and flowers in the capital and hamster-sized work cubicles for public servants. But nothing approaching public splendour (or even design excellence). At least not in recent memory. Anyway, like you say, f 'em. Literal Ottawa contributes to the public purse, too.

Your second point, that Figurative (Federal) Ottawa spends lots of money on areas outside the National Capital Region is largely overlooked. Or if it is acknowledged, it's seen as somehow the only normal/right thing to do. Of course there should be federal spending in ........... (fill in name of municipality here). But circulate the number on a pricetag for a project in Ottawa and you've got yourself a recipe for righteous indignation. The attitude is more than evident in the CBC's interviews in New Brunswick over where federal budget cuts should take place in the public service. The options were: a) All in the regions, b) All in Ottawa-Gatineau; or c) spread evenly over the country. Those interviewed were more than willing to throw Ottawa-Gatineau under a bus if it meant saving local jobs, because after all, it's a city of pampered parasites not hard-working Canadian taxpayers.

So, no love for Ottawa. And few outside the capital ever bother to entertain the idea that there might be a difference between the literal and the figurative city. Certainly no recognition from out here that Ottawa needs anything better than the Train Yards building and its ilk. Sad to see it but I do see it here (in Toronto) regularly.
Some out side of the ncc area haver the idea that everything is paid for when they hear money going to ottawa they think its the city that getting the money this is of course not true.I laugh at those who are more then willing to say cut all the jobs in ottawa they don't grasp that if they werre to fire say 50% of the jobs in ottawa sure it would have a impact in otatwa but it would have a big impact on tere home towns.
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  #77  
Old Posted: Oct 18, 2011, 8:36 PM
kevinbottawa kevinbottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by Nepean View Post
I completely agree with gjhall. Kelly Egan is a writer that I really respect, but I think his analysis is off here because he is too focussed on one building. If you look at the Elgin St. area, you will see that there are a lot of exciting projects under construction. In the not too distant future you will have: e.g. new skating rink in front of city hall; new condos at the Merit and Tribeca; and new commercial space at 90 Elgin. Together, this will create a much livelier neighbourhood, which is what we all want for Ottawa.
I actually agree with Kelly Egan. This isn't just one building on some random piece of land. It's one building along Confederation Boulevard surrounded by all the things you just named. Is it the end of the world to have an office building on the site? No. But is it the best use of that particular piece of land at that location (especially when people are always complaining that downtown is dead after 5pm)? No. If it was an office building going up somewhere else there would be little debate. Plus how many retail spaces located in government buildings in this city are actually vibrant shopping destinations?

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Ottawa needs to understand that not every new building should be of national importance, some should just work in the urban fabric, as this building, bland or not, does.
Kelly Egan was proposing a central library. That's not of national importance, that's of local importance. I'd think that would do more for the urban fabric.
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  #78  
Old Posted: Oct 18, 2011, 8:41 PM
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I actually agree with Kelly Egan. This isn't just one building on some random piece of land. It's one building along Confederation Boulevard surrounded by all the things you just named. Is it the end of the world to have an office building on the site? No. But is it the best use of that particular piece of land at that location (especially when people are always complaining that downtown is dead after 5pm)? No. If it was an office building going up somewhere else there would be little debate. Plus how many retail spaces located in government buildings in this city are actually vibrant shopping destinations?



Kelly Egan was proposing a central library. That's not of national importance, that's of local importance. I'd think that would do more for the urban fabric.
The thing is if the gov came out and said were going to build a 40 story building people would be aginst it they build a 18 floor building and people are upset no matter what they do people will be up set.
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  #79  
Old Posted: Oct 18, 2011, 10:50 PM
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Not the least of which was that surrounding the idea of spending money on a National Portrait Gallery in the Nation's Capital.
This was not an issue outside Ottawa, other than a little bit in the pages of the G&M and in a couple of the cities that thought they might bid on the facility. And to the limited extent that it was an issue, my sense is most people who had an opinion, thought it was stupid to cancel the project.

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So, no love for Ottawa. And few outside the capital ever bother to entertain the idea that there might be a difference between the literal and the figurative city. Certainly no recognition from out here that Ottawa needs anything better than the Train Yards building and its ilk. Sad to see it but I do see it here (in Toronto) regularly.
Trainyards is private-sector crap. No one to blame there but the developer, our own spineless city council, and the shitass outdated rules governing municipalities in Ontario.
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  #80  
Old Posted: Oct 18, 2011, 11:56 PM
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wow, these battle cries for mediocrity sure are inspiring...
"Give me mediocrity, or give me death!"

Seriously thought, the 'local importance' of a buiding's function seems lost on the NCC 2067 crowd (or whatever the stupid time/money wasting project is called).
These people think we should all be content eating, sleeping and breathing monuments and greenspace all day, and to even think about liveability concerns like services or transit is selfish, and not seeing 'the big picture'.
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