Should Toronto have a moratorium on new condos downtown

[miketoronto]

One of my best friends who is also interested in cities, lives in downtown Toronto, and one thing he has been talking about for a while now, is how all the condos are killing what makes downtown Toronto fun.

He is not the first person to voice this opinion. There is a growing number of people who feel that downtown Toronto has gone just a tad too far in the condo direction and that things need to cool down with the condo market.

The large large influx of residents are putting a damper on nighttime activity, eating up very important employment lands(for future office development), and sanitizing the downtown and removing the very places and in some places the grittiness that made the place attractive to residents from all around the city.

And most serious of all to some is the large amount of heritage buildings under threat due to condo developers who would love to knock the buildings down or do facadism.

So what are your guys views on condos downtown. Do you think Toronto has gone too far, and that things need to be cooled down on the condo front.

How do you feel about condos destroying vibrant downtown strips like King Street West(there is some talk going around that a condo development might demolish the historic buildings and all those cool restaurants and bars on King West, just west of John Street).

Downtown condo dwellers are suppose to inject life into the city. However the deadest areas of downtown happen to be the places condos are standing on.

Your views.

[Brandon716]

No. I say build about 5,000 more, just keep the clubs and restaurants and culture in tact.

[vid]

We had this discussion two years ago. What has changed, exactly?

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=156181

[Gdoggy]

I can see it now "CITY BANS ALL NEW CONDO DEVELOPMENTS"
prompting a new post from mike in 3 years about how downtown is suffering due to the lack of people moving into the area compared to the 905....

[niwell]

Absolutely not. However, greater emphasis should be placed on preservation of listed heritage structures. Given recent events a strong push in this direction is ocurring and I am interested to see what the next few years brings. Also strict regulations on conversion of lands designated for employment. On this front the City has shown increased competance, particularly after the South of Eastern debacle (the OMB report is rather scathing).

I'm not sure I buy the whole "condos are killing the entertainment district" thing. They have certainly played a part, but the reality is that the large club format is dying on its own. The closure of Circa - which had nothing to do with condos - is pretty indicative of this.

[Cambridgite]

Holy broken record, Batman!

You're on a rip lately, eh Mike?

I cannot grasp why you keep posting these threads saying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Really, you seem intelligent in person, but your online persona...

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by vid

We had this discussion two years ago. What has changed, exactly?

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=156181

yeah. Maybe the mods can merge the threads.
Same can, different label.

Actually, same can, same label.

[Doady]

[edited by moderator]

[miketoronto]

I know we talked about this already. I thought it would be good to talk about it again given the new developments that have taken place, and also some projects which are altering historical buildings, etc.

[MolsonExport]

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...&postcount=718

[Nouvellecosse]

Downtown condo dwellers are suppose to inject life into the city. However the deadest areas of downtown happen to be the places condos are standing on.

Do you mean they've become the deadest after the new residents arrived or that they were already the deadest and you're disappointed the developments haven't enlivened them?

If they were already the deadest, I'd say it's good that developers are finally putting the areas to productive use. If they just became dead afterward, I'd find it very surprising since I can't understand how the condos could actually make an area more dead. I can see it if the area had been full of clubs with thudding music late into the night as residents would likely complain. But how would condos drive away normal bars/restaurants/cafés, stores, gyms, etc?

[Gerrard]

Most of the new condo developments being built are being built on land that was unoccupied or existing parking lots. Cityplace, Liberty Village etc.

What new condo developments do need to do however is stop building to please investors and design for real families. 3 bedroom apts. in 800sq feet is rather ridiculous. I'm not a big fan of children but entire units composed of young professionals and students is a recipe for bland tired living.

[ssiguy]

No the condo boom should not stop but Toronto should also learn from other cities. Some may look at Vancouver as an example of how high density living can have a very positive impact but Toronto should also learn from Vancouver's mistakes.
One of the most important blunders by Vancouver was it's over emphasis on residential. Any developer who could fog a mirror got the OK from a high rise in downtown Vancouver but that is no turning out to be a curse. Downtown Vancouver has almost completely filled up but the problem is that the city didn't inhibit residential towers from taking commercial land. This has led to a crutial shortage of office space in Vanocuver with little room to build. Most ne office building in Vancouver are going up in the suburbs due to no new land available downtown to build and what little there is is extremely expensive. Vancouver now has a huge problem....reversee commuting patterns.
Vancouver also left very little land for public space. There are many very pleasant small parks but nowhere to put great civic buildings and meeting places.
Vancouver also went hog wild on the blue and green glass theme. In the mid 1990s it was novel but now the whole skyline looks cold and sterile. Toronto seems to be doing a better job at architectural design than Vancouver except along the Waterfront. The city should put a moratorium on glass towers south of the tracks or have only a certain percentage allowed as blue/green glass. They look pretty on brouchers but can become very sterile and lacked a warmth that Toronto should be promoting especially along the Waterfront.
The condos can keep rolling as long as the city sets aside a large area for commerical and civic spaces and demands architectural integrity and diversity........ie, no more Cityplace McDevelopments.

[LeftCoaster]

About 90% of that above post is untrue... just in case anyone was under the assumption otherwise.

I assume most of you had figured that out though so I'll spare everyone the long winded explanation as to how ssiguy completely missed the mark yet again.