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  #1  
Old Posted: Sep 30, 2009, 8:51 PM
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Help Needed!!!...Urban Planning

Hey everyone,
I was hoping to get some insight regarding the Urban Planning (transportation planning) programs at Ryerson University and University of Waterloo. What are the pro's and con's to each school?

I know Waterloo has co-op, but I hear that Ryerson is very hands on. Is it easier/harder to get a job if you graduate from one school vs the other?

What's the difference if you get a Bes or BURP?

Thanks a lot!
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Old Posted: Oct 1, 2009, 4:06 AM
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  #3  
Old Posted: Oct 4, 2009, 3:44 AM
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Don't know much about Ryerson, but I've really enjoyed the co-op program at Waterloo. It's great for learning how planning works in the 'real world,' especially if you try to get a variety of jobs (provincial/municipal/private). I've even met several SSP forum members through classes and co-ops
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Old Posted: Oct 5, 2009, 11:14 AM
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My workplace has a larger percentage UW planning grads than any other school including Ryerson, York & UT.

We always joke about Ry-high and even the Ryerson grads play along.

That said though, most of K-dubs is a suburban wasteland.
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Old Posted: Oct 5, 2009, 4:41 PM
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Kitchener-lrt, the UW program is quite comprehensive, has a good reputation, and I would recommend you to try it out. Tony is right about the location (esp compared to Ryerson), but on the bright side, you could save a lot of money living at home, which you couldn't do going to Ryerson. However, if you DO decide to try living away from home for some portion of your education, I would recommend doing it during first year.
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Old Posted: Oct 6, 2009, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony View Post
My workplace has a larger percentage UW planning grads than any other school including Ryerson, York & UT.

We always joke about Ry-high and even the Ryerson grads play along.

That said though, most of K-dubs is a suburban wasteland.
Ah yes, the old Ry-high joke lol. Where do you work, if you don't mind me asking?


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Originally Posted by Cambridgite View Post
Kitchener-lrt, the UW program is quite comprehensive, has a good reputation, and I would recommend you to try it out. Tony is right about the location (esp compared to Ryerson), but on the bright side, you could save a lot of money living at home, which you couldn't do going to Ryerson. However, if you DO decide to try living away from home for some portion of your education, I would recommend doing it during first year.
Regarding living away from home, I have relatives/friends in Toronto that I'd be able to stay with.

Thanks for all of the comments everyone. I find UW a bit over-rated, which is why I'm more interested in Ryerson now. I know co-op is a valuable asset on a resume, but does anyone known how seriously placements are taken? Do you still get good work experience?
Ryerson gave a presentation at my school today, and they really emphasized their location.
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Old Posted: Oct 8, 2009, 9:38 PM
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Originally Posted by kitchener-lrt View Post
Ah yes, the old Ry-high joke lol. Where do you work, if you don't mind me asking?
Ain't telling ya. But I'm sure a little snooping around on the net wouldn't make it hard to figure out.

Yeah the jokes usually start with fictitious elective courses like "Plan 312 - Wedding Planning", "Plan 217 - Cake Decoration"... "Interpretive Dance" etc...
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Old Posted: Oct 8, 2009, 11:50 PM
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The placements are taken seriously... you will interview and compete with your classmates (and sometimes even Ry-high students ) for positions. Some of the local places my classmates have worked at include Activa, GRT, Region of Waterloo, City of Kitchener, and City of Waterloo. In the GTA, some of the jobs worked at include Sorbara, Urban Strategies, MMAH, HOK, MPIR, City of Toronto, First Capital, City of Mississauga, City of Hamilton, Malone Given Parsons, and MMM. In my co-op's, I've met lots of people who did a co-op at the city or company before getting a fulltime job there.

Last edited by waterloowarrior; Oct 9, 2009 at 12:26 AM.
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  #9  
Old Posted: Oct 13, 2009, 3:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
The placements are taken seriously... you will interview and compete with your classmates (and sometimes even Ry-high students ) for positions. Some of the local places my classmates have worked at include Activa, GRT, Region of Waterloo, City of Kitchener, and City of Waterloo. In the GTA, some of the jobs worked at include Sorbara, Urban Strategies, MMAH, HOK, MPIR, City of Toronto, First Capital, City of Mississauga, City of Hamilton, Malone Given Parsons, and MMM. In my co-op's, I've met lots of people who did a co-op at the city or company before getting a fulltime job there.
Agreed, don't under-estimate the value of co-op placements, they're more than just money to help you pay for school. I know several people not just in the Planning program but especially Engineering, who get hired by the very people they had a placement with.

It also significantly builds up your resume with very relevant experience.
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Old Posted: Oct 19, 2009, 8:09 PM
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I'm starting to shift towards UW, largely due to the co-op. Do UW students have to take 1 or 2 tests to become certified planners? I know that Ryerson students only have to take 1. Does anyone know why?
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Old Posted: Oct 19, 2009, 8:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitchener-lrt View Post
I'm starting to shift towards UW, largely due to the co-op. Do UW students have to take 1 or 2 tests to become certified planners? I know that Ryerson students only have to take 1. Does anyone know why?
Cheers
It depends if you become a student member of OPPI or not (it's optional at UW, but highly recommended). If you do, you are (in most cases) exempt from Exam B.

This link from the OPPI's website explains the exams further:

http://www.ontarioplanners.on.ca/con...ber/examb.aspx
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Old Posted: Oct 20, 2009, 4:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke-Of-Waterloo View Post
It depends if you become a student member of OPPI or not (it's optional at UW, but highly recommended). If you do, you are (in most cases) exempt from Exam B.

This link from the OPPI's website explains the exams further:

http://www.ontarioplanners.on.ca/con...ber/examb.aspx
AFAIK, it has nothing to do with you needing to be a student member or not. UW & Ryerson are both accredited universities for Urban Planning so you are exempt from Exam B. You just need to build up your logs as a Provisional Member until you are ready for Exam A.
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  #13  
Old Posted: Oct 25, 2009, 7:49 PM
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Since I'm interested in Transportation Planning, I started looking at Transportation Engineering. What are the basic differences between the two? I also noticed that Jeff Casello is involved with the Planning School. Does anyone know how much he incorporates his transportation engineering background into the planning program?
Thanks!
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Old Posted: Oct 31, 2009, 3:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitchener-lrt View Post
Since I'm interested in Transportation Planning, I started looking at Transportation Engineering. What are the basic differences between the two? I also noticed that Jeff Casello is involved with the Planning School. Does anyone know how much he incorporates his transportation engineering background into the planning program?
Thanks!
Casello teaches a lot of the fourth year courses. In planning at UW, you won't really have Casello until you are in either third or fourth year. All of the courses he teaches are transportation based, some having more of an engineering background than others. Casello's main office is within the School of Planning.

The following link is UW's Undergraduate Calendar of courses. Scroll down to the fourth year planning courses. Casello teaches courses like 478, 484. In fact, 478 is cross listed with CIVE 440.

http://www.ucalendar.uwaterloo.ca/09...urse-PLAN.html

If you have any really specific questions about UW's School of Planning, feel free to PM me.
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Old Posted: Dec 29, 2009, 5:58 PM
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I came across this thread and felt i should jump in as someone who took the long way, but feel i could offer advice.

I am currently a student in the Urban and Regional Planning program at Mohawk College in Hamilton. Mohawk currently has a joint program with Ryerson. After I am done there is an option of going to Ryerson to get my B.URPI in 2 years instead of 4. However I already have a B.ES in Geography from Waterloo.

I cant speak for Ryerson but I can certainly tell you about Waterloo and what i’ve seen. The key in my opinion will be co-op. The classes you will take (or that I took) in university are good to know, but ultimately unapplicable in the real world. I hate to say it. If you’re serious about a career in planning take the co-op at waterloo. A friend of mine was in co-op and has told me she credits that to her getting her current job. I graduated from the Univeristy of Waterloo with a B.ES in Geography, not planning. Most of my electives were the planning classes that I could enrol in without being in the planning program, so I got the best of both worlds. I unfortunately was not in co-op. Most of these planning classes I took were all theory classes that went over the history and various movements. Very repetitive. There was a planning law class that I took that really just went over cases and had us read them over and predict what we think would happen. It showed that I knew how to think and talk about planning intelligently, but nothing really applicable to the real world.

After I graduated I managed to schmooze my way into a few job interviews for planning positons. (Region of Halton, Waterloo catholic school board). I went in and told them all about new urbanism and radburn etc... and they ultimately told me ‘great, but what are you qualified to do? have you ever looked at any planning legislation? What are some issues you would encounter in site plan design? Subdivision design etc..’. I had nothing. I had essays....woopee....

Then I discovered the Urban and Regional Planning program at Mohawk College, in Hamilton. We’ve sat down and looked at the Planning Act, Zoning by-laws and official plan. Searched through them, applied them. Looked at urban design principles and designed commercial plans and subdivisions in Autocad. Learned proper lotting techniques, street specifications, CSAS and OPSD drawing standards. In your second semester you do a 1 month internship for work experience. It’s non-paying due to the length. These are not Mickey Mouse placements. Some of them include (IBI Group, City of Hamilton, Burlington, Cambridge, Mississauga, Stantec Consulting, Ontario Realty Corporation, Niagara Escarpment commission, OMB, Habitat for Humanity and various planning firms around the GTA. You can also find your own placement.) I now have a portfolio and formal proof I know what these planning documents are. I will also have work experience to put on my resume. The teachers are former planners and site plan designers getting you ready for the workforce whereas I found most of my university profs were planning ‘scholars’

I asked my ‘co-op friend’ if she learned any of this at waterloo cause I certainly didn’t. She tells me she never touched on any of this at waterloo and she got her current job based on her work experience, where she learned about the planning act, site plans etc.. She in fact works where she had co-op.

Ultimately if you go to Waterloo, make sure it’s co-op and not regular. You’ll make it easier on yourself. If you go to Ryerson, look into this joint venture with Mohawk College and you will then graduate with both a diploma and degree in 4 years. Took me 5 with a 2 year break to work, so 7 . I can tell you i’ve gained more ‘work experience’ at Mohawk in 1 semester than I did at my 4 years at Waterloo, but having an undergrad degree is necessary I believe to be an RPP.

Also, getting your undergrad in planning instead of Geography means that you can get your OPPI and RPP certification quicker (2 years instead of 4) I have to clock 4 years of time before i can write my test. However with my College Diploma I can get the CPT (certified planning technician) certification in 2 years if i work as a Planning Technician.

You may be able to do both with the Ryerson/Mohawk joint program.

Hope this Helps.
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Old Posted: Dec 30, 2009, 4:56 PM
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Ultimately if you go to Waterloo, make sure it’s co-op and not regular.
Planning at Waterloo is going 100% co-op, effective Fall 2010.

Finding that many employers willing to take in approximately 100 students for a first co-op term with little to no practical "real world" experience will be a challenge though I predict.
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Old Posted: Dec 30, 2009, 5:54 PM
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Planning at Waterloo is going 100% co-op, effective Fall 2010.

Finding that many employers willing to take in approximately 100 students for a first co-op term with little to no practical "real world" experience will be a challenge though I predict.

Really? That's a step in the right direction imo. i agree with that final statement. The program co-ordinator at Mohawk faces a similar dillema as she finds it difficult to find placements for 30 students (that's the class size) that only lasts 3 weeks. The selling point is that it's non-paid. Unlike co-op there are no interviews. The list is posted and it's first come first serve. I took the initiative, started cold calling and found my own placement.

Convincing 100 different employers to pay someone with no experience will be a challenge. I think the school will get it done.

Also going back to my earlier post, all of our learning culminates at the end to a final project which consists of designing a site plan and presenting it to a panel of 10 planning professionals. Again, nothing of the sort (that i'm aware of) at University.


Duke, do you work at the school ?
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Old Posted: Jan 3, 2010, 6:34 PM
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Really? That's a step in the right direction imo.
Yep. It's definitely a good decision. Check it out here: http://www.fes.uwaterloo.ca/admissio...html#admission


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Also going back to my earlier post, all of our learning culminates at the end to a final project which consists of designing a site plan and presenting it to a panel of 10 planning professionals. Again, nothing of the sort (that i'm aware of) at University.
Actually, there is at UW. In multiple courses in fact. In various design courses (such as PLAN 210) you are given a site to redevelop with a group of fellow students, and your final product is presented to professionals in the field (city staff, consultants, urban designers/architects, engineers, etc.) for critique. PLAN 483 (Land Development Planning), students take a development project right through the respective planning process. Here the description for that course from the University's Undergraduate Calendar:

Quote:
An examination of planning issues related to the design, economics and financing of private land and building construction projects including residential high-rise condominium, low-rise residential subdivision, infill, intensification and brownfield redevelopment and industrial/commercial land development. The course focuses on developer decision-making, analysis of risk, sources of financing, planning, environmental and engineering aspects of land development.
There are a few others, but I'm not too sure offhand.

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Duke, do you work at the school ?
Nope. But I do have very close ties.
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  #19  
Old Posted: Nov 17, 2012, 11:54 PM
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This seems like the right place to post this, since I'm facing the same dilemma as kitchener-lrt...only 3 years later!

I know that I want to study (and actually do!) Urban Planning starting next year. I've gone to the program information sessions at both Waterloo and Ryerson, seen the classrooms, read about the faculty, and figured out the differences between the two. Until recently I felt that Waterloo had the better program, but now I'm not so sure.

I like how Waterloo's program has a focus on the Environmental aspect of planning, and their new building, studios and classrooms look fantastic! I also got an outline of the courses I'll be taking, and a tour from an enthusiastic student which was nice. Unfortunately their presentation was as dull as can be. A long powerpoint from a soft-spoken professor had me a little dissapointed. I know that not all professors will be like this, and I'm sure he was a very intelligent man, but I just didn't feel...inspired, if you know what I mean. Initially I really liked the idea of it being a co-op course. Paid work experience that will help me find jobs after graduation sounds great, but I've realized that there is no way they have enough placements for all 110 students in K-W. Does this mean the extra stress stress of having to find an apartment, and move to a new city just for one term? I'm not afraid of moving around to gain experience, but I mean one term isn't a very long time. I also wonder, are the courses more theory-based at Waterloo?

Despite some uncertainties, while heading to Ryerson I still felt strongly that Waterloo was the place for me. The emphasis on co-op, better reputation, and bigger focus on academics at Waterloo were the main factors that lead me to assume that Ryerson's program would be dramatically inferior. However, that was clearly not the case! Their presentation was the complete opposite of Waterloo's. The passionate, enthusiastic associate director just spoke the whole time, and I was really captivated by them. There was no boring powerpoint or handouts. Apparently the reason that they don't have co-op at Ryerson is because the classes integrate that sort of practical stuff into them by doing mock proposals and projects for the city. Is this not as good, or better than doing a seperate co-op term in another city? It honestly sounds better to me. I liked the "hands on" approach of the classes, because I don't just want to learn the theory seperate of its practical uses. Another thing that Ryerson's program has going for it is that all of the faculty appear to be practicing Urban Planners themselves. All this was very convincing to me, not to mention that the campus is actually located in, well a real urban environment! Waterloo's campus is open and nice, but it is a bubble located in a suburb.

Anyways, sorry about the long post, but do you think I am correct in thinking that Ryerson is in fact the better program? Should I take up the Ryerson professor's offer, and ask to sit in on a class?

Some of the previous posts have been helpful, and I know it all comes down to my own personal preference, but it would be fantastic if anyone had any thoughts or advice for me!
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Last edited by Simpseatles; Nov 18, 2012 at 3:12 AM.
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  #20  
Old Posted: Nov 20, 2012, 7:31 PM
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Not to be a booster, but many UW profs are also practising planners teaching courses on the side. Part of the UW curriculum also includes a lot of mock projects within the KW and even Toronto and Ottawa area. Both of these items seem to be standard at both schools but I guess the Ryerson presenter you encountered is just better at pointing it out.
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