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  #61  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2011, 4:50 PM
Mininari Mininari is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy6 View Post
The Perimeter Highway was probably the most notable multilane city bypass route built in the 60s in Canada, however, and is sort of half a freeway in spots, although falling short of Ontario or U.S. standards.

There is simply no need for freeways in Winnipeg. Traffic moves well around the city and the radial pattern, with some very broad arterial roads, feeds traffic into the core much more efficiently than Toronto's grid can.
Yeah, its actually possible to make a left turn from the left-hand lane on the Perimeter highway to a DIRT ROAD. Imagine that. Travelling along a highway at the posted speed limit of 100km/hr (or slightly above), only suddenly to have the car in front of you flip on the blinker, STOP, and make a turn. Yep, what a "freeway" that is.

Otherwise, yeah there really isn't any need for a billion-dollar freeway network in Winnipeg. The commute times here are not that bad (except maybe for those who need to cross the Osborne Bridge for the next 18 months.. big restoration project going on there).

Watch for upgrades connected to the Centreport development though... they're already building Canada CentrePort Way (an expressway, not a freeway) and connecting it to the Perimeter Highway with an interchange.... in all likelihood, it will be extended westward to bypass Headingley within maybe a 10-year time frame?
A similar bypass is planned in the South around St. Norbert.

On the otherhand, the rest of the interchange at Highway 59 and the Perimeter is STILL not under construction.
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  #62  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2011, 5:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy6 View Post
In NW Ontario, Ontario's government has always been reluctant to do anything that would direct economic activity into Manitoba. So Highway 17 from the border to Kenora has remained dangerously two-laned and at one point the government cancelled a plan to connect Red Lake to Manitoba PR 314 (even though this would be important for forest fire evacuations).
Is this serious or sarcastic?

Honest question...
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  #63  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2011, 5:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
It is equally bad in Toronto, where unless I missed it there is not one single directional sign pointing to Montreal in the entire GTA.
I think you're right, from what I remember when I lived there. Yet in Montreal, there are signs for Toronto minutes from downtown at the Turcot interchange.

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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Anyway, signs on major highways are supposed to be for people who don't know the environs and need to find their way.
I've noticed in Albany NY they have signs for Montreal - that is a fair distance... and in Plattsburgh (last city before the border) they even have signs "to autoroute 15" with the Quebec shield and everything.
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  #64  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2011, 6:06 PM
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Yes, no signs for Montreal inside Toronto - They are for Kingston.

That's as far east as the signs direct you from here.
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  #65  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2011, 6:45 PM
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I think you're right, from what I remember when I lived there. Yet in Montreal, there are signs for Toronto minutes from downtown at the Turcot interchange.


Put in to help the SunLife company down the 401
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  #66  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2011, 7:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Is this serious or sarcastic?

Honest question...
Serious. I guess another reason is that there are relatively few votes in doing Highway 17, because most of its users are Winnipeggers, but the Red Lake highway was a major issue at one time and it was clear that Toronto wasn't eager to give that district a direct route to Winnipeg.
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  #67  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2011, 7:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy6 View Post
Serious. I guess another reason is that there are relatively few votes in doing Highway 17, because most of its users are Winnipeggers, but the Red Lake highway was a major issue at one time and it was clear that Toronto wasn't eager to give that district a direct route to Winnipeg.
That's interesting. Not looking for conspiracy theories but your comment about highways and concerns about favouring economic development in a neighbouring province reminded me of the difficulty in building a new bridge between Ottawa and Gatineau in my area. The province of Ontario is not the sole entity involved on the Ottawa side of course, but it's interesting to note all of the foot-dragging from the Ontario side. At least part of it is suspected to be because of the fear that improved access to the Gatineau side will lead to residents and business moving from Ottawa across the river to Quebec.

There is pretty much an entire neighbourhood in downtown Ottawa whose quality of life has been sacrificed because of the lack of a new truck route between the two cities and political dawdling over both the necessity and location of the bridge.
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  #68  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2011, 7:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harls View Post
I think you're right, from what I remember when I lived there. Yet in Montreal, there are signs for Toronto minutes from downtown at the Turcot interchange.

I've noticed in Albany NY they have signs for Montreal - that is a fair distance... and in Plattsburgh (last city before the border) they even have signs "to autoroute 15" with the Quebec shield and everything.
On autoroutes on Montreal Island you have directional signs pointing to Québec (City) and Trois-Rivières, Saint-Jérôme (north), Sherbrooke, New York, Vermont, Ottawa-Gatineau and Toronto.

Last edited by Acajack; Apr 13, 2011 at 8:26 PM.
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  #69  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2011, 8:15 PM
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The MTO only signs to the next major destination directly on that highway after it has passed a metropolitan area. "Montreal" appears on the eastbound 401 after Kingston. Within n urban area, it only signs the highways with numbers and direction (ie., 417 WEST). The reason Toronto is not signed on the 416 interchange is because 416 does not continue to Toronto but merely ends at the 401. However because Highway 7 goes to Toronto and does not pass through another major metropolitan area, that exit on the 417 is labelled for Toronto.
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  #70  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2011, 8:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Kitchissippi View Post
The MTO only signs to the next major destination directly on that highway after it has passed a metropolitan area. "Montreal" appears on the eastbound 401 after Kingston. Within n urban area, it only signs the highways with numbers and direction (ie., 417 WEST). The reason Toronto is not signed on the 416 interchange is because 416 does not continue to Toronto but merely ends at the 401. However because Highway 7 goes to Toronto and does not pass through another major metropolitan area, that exit on the 417 is labelled for Toronto.
That's their "policy", but it doesn't make it smart.

I am glad you raised Highway 7 west of Ottawa. Every time I see that sign I always picture poor tourists from overseas in a rental car taking the 7 to get from Ottawa to Toronto...
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  #71  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2011, 8:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
On autoroutes on Montreal Island you have directional signs pointing to Québec (City) and Trois-Rivières, Saint-Jérôme (north), New York, Vermont, Ottawa-Gatineau and Toronto.
I love how the signs on the highways in Montreal actually post relevant, big city destinations, regardless of whether they are in a different province or even country! In addition, the 401 and 417 shields shown far in advance of the Ontario border are a nice touch. The MTQ has very 'far-sighted' and clear signage standards, with the MTO should strive to follow.

Ontario, on the other hand, seems to have a fear of posting directional signs to large cities. Instead of clear signs on the 401 directing motorists towards Ottawa and Montreal, much less important cities (Kingston, Cornwall) are posted instead. Often, no cities are written at all, indicating only the cardinal directions. On the QEW, I think there are no signs for Buffalo until south of Niagara Falls. Even worse, on the 401 west, Detroit doesn't appear on a single sign! The only indications that the border is nearby are the 'Bridge/Tunnel to USA' signs.
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  #72  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2011, 8:37 PM
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Originally Posted by adriancanada View Post
I love how the signs on the highways in Montreal actually post relevant, big city destinations, regardless of whether they are in a different province or even country! In addition, the 401 and 417 shields shown far in advance of the Ontario border are a nice touch. The MTQ has very 'far-sighted' and clear signage standards, with the MTO should strive to follow.
It wasn't always this way in Montreal. For many years the destination city on the 40 westbound was Vaudreuil, not Ottawa. On the westbound 20 it was something like Dorion instead of Toronto I am pretty sure.
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  #73  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2011, 8:48 PM
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TCH outside of Saint Andrew's, Newfoundland

Photo by myself.

Last edited by JHikka; Apr 13, 2011 at 9:25 PM.
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  #74  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2011, 9:09 PM
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Originally Posted by freeweed View Post
The Disraeli is called a freeway. And signs do not lie, ever.
And this is called an "Expressway".



And signs do not lie, ever! From left to right, you're looking at 1.5 miles of road.

The speed limit on that road is 70, but because the stops are so close together, you often can't actually reach 70! And yes, the speed limit on this "expressway" is 70km/h. The other "expressway" has a speed limit of 90. That's so fast! I don't know how cars don't disintegrate at that speed!

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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Is this serious or sarcastic?

Honest question...
It's serious, and it isn't limited to highways. They won't connect our regional electrical grid into Manitoba, either. They're spending millions to connect Manitoba's grid to Southern Ontario, though. First Nations are fighting to have it routed near them so that they can abandon diesel generators, but the government wants it built in a more direct route, going through a region that has almost no communities at all, just funnelling the energy straight to Toronto without any stops. This is part of their plan to get rid of the coal plants in Southern Ontario.

The high voltage transmission lines with the highest capacity in Northern Ontario don't actually provide power to anything in Northern Ontario. It connects Southern Ontario to Manitoba's hydro stations. Northwestern Ontario is in a situation now where we have a surplus of energy, but a lack of high voltage corridors to get that energy from where it is generated to where it is needed. And because of the province-wide rate, we pay more for our energy than it costs to produce it by a considerable margin. It doesn't really subsidize the south, but it certainly hurts the region's industry.

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Originally Posted by Andy6 View Post
Serious. I guess another reason is that there are relatively few votes in doing Highway 17, because most of its users are Winnipeggers, but the Red Lake highway was a major issue at one time and it was clear that Toronto wasn't eager to give that district a direct route to Winnipeg.
We've been getting improvements lately, but I think that is based more on wanting to retain these two seats than an actual interest in improving the region. The new Highway 11/17 from Rosslyn to Shabaqua won't even start construction until 2030. The Highway 17 reconstruction west of Kenora was announced in Ontario after it was announced in Manitoba, because having their nice, new highway lead to Ontario's two lane cowtrail would make Ontario look bad. They do just enough to say they're doing something.

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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
That's their "policy", but it doesn't make it smart.
Nothing about the MTO is smart.
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  #75  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2011, 9:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
It wasn't always this way in Montreal. For many years the destination city on the 40 westbound was Vaudreuil, not Ottawa. On the westbound 20 it was something like Dorion instead of Toronto I am pretty sure.
Good thing they changed it then! Now if only Ontario could do the same...
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  #76  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2011, 9:23 PM
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Highway 401: The Macdonald–Cartier Freeway in Dorchester, Ontario.





Photos by me

The freeway descends and cuts right through the Dorchester Swamp. If the 401 was built today it would certainly be built around the wetland area.

Also the Don Valley Parkway in Toronto wouldn't be built if it were by today's standards.
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  #77  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2011, 9:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
That's interesting. Not looking for conspiracy theories but your comment about highways and concerns about favouring economic development in a neighbouring province reminded me of the difficulty in building a new bridge between Ottawa and Gatineau in my area. .
You could also point out the foot-dragging on turning the TCH stretch from Rivière-du-Loup to New Brunswick into an autoroute.
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  #78  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2011, 9:45 PM
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the dreaded turcot interchange in montreal:

(McGill)

(documentone.org)

(madocphoto.com)
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  #79  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2011, 9:48 PM
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You could also point out the foot-dragging on turning the TCH stretch from Rivière-du-Loup to New Brunswick into an autoroute.
Indeed. There was certainly a perception that this highway would only benefit Atlantic Canada.
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  #80  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2011, 9:51 PM
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What a mess that Turcot is. I heard it could cost billions to fix it up.

Better do it soon before another overpass in Quebec collapses.
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