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  #1  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2011, 11:17 AM
LeadingEdgeBoomer LeadingEdgeBoomer is offline
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Attika | 18 fl | Proposed

My apolgies if this proposal has already been mentioned in another thread. if it is , I can not seem to find it.

Anyways another proposal for a tall building to rival the Soho Italia project, but with a Greek name. What thinkest thou?

Quote:
By Joanne Chianello, Ottawa CitizenJune 4, 2011 4:08 AM

They want to build it 36 storeys high and call it Attika.

Tega Homes is proposing a two-building development at the northwest corner of Parkdale Avenue and Armstrong Street in Hintonburg. One of those buildings would be a 36-storey tower that, if approved, would be the tallest building in the city, with some spectacular views of the Ottawa River and the Gatineau Hills.

The name is a sentimental suggestion by Tega's Greek-born CEO, Spyros Dimitrakopoulos. Attica is the province where Athens is located, but the boss's colleagues convinced him to change the "c" to a "k" so as to distance it from the infamous prison, not the usual association one looks for in a luxury condo development.

The Ottawa home builder is working with the property owner, who controls the entire block except for one small parcel: the corner occupied by the popular Carleton Tavern. Beer lovers can rest easy, however, as there are no plans to remove or redevelop the tavern. Instead, the 300,000 square-foot development is being planned around the Carleton Tavern, which, with a skinny soaring tower behind it, promises to become a true historic quirk in the quickly intensifying and gentrifying neighbourhood.

But whether it will be built as currently designed is far from settled.

Local residents aren't too happy with the height -which is more than four times the current eight-storey limit -and local politicians are questioning the validity of the developer's demands for more sellable space.

The issue is one of contamination.

The land under the site is chock full of VOCs -volatile organic compounds -at exponentially higher levels than provincial guidelines allow, due to a no-longer-used light industrial building that has been there for decades.

Tega is proposing to undertake the daunting task of cleaning up the contamination, which has spread beyond the site and under neighbouring homes. According to an independent appraisal, decontamination will take eight or nine months and require excavating 18 metres of bedrock and collecting and treating the groundwater. Even after the project is completed, a mechanism will have to be put in place to handle any residual contamination in the groundwater.

All this will cost $12 million.

The city has a "brownfield" program to help cover the costs of cleaning up contaminated land. The city is prepared to pay half of the expenses or, in this case, $6 million. But Tega says that for the development to be economically viable with the cleanup costs, it needs 50-percent more sellable space than called for in a recently approved local design plan.

In other words, instead of 200,000 square feet, Tega requires 300,000.

It's this assertion by Tega that Councillor Peter Hume isn't buying, characterizing it as an issue that is altogether separate from heights.

"We are prepared to put money on the table to provide an incentive to get builders to develop brownfields -and it's not an insignificant contribution," said Hume, who chairs council's planning committee. "Now they're saying we have to give them more density for doing the right thing?"


Hume pointed out that the fact the land was contaminated would have been built into the land's cost. He added that other developers have been able to build on previously contaminated land without asking for huge increases in sellable floor space.

"I don't want to send a signal that if you're going to clean up a site, we're going to let you build a 30-or 40-storey building," said Hume. "That's not a justification for more density."

As the proposed development is near both the Tunney's Pasture transit station and the federal government complex of the same name, it falls under the city's guidelines for intensification. Hume, who chairs council's planning committee, agreed that there are good reasons to zone it for more than the called for eight storeys.

But most are finding 36 storeys hard to swallow.

The company met with some members of the community on Thursday night and said the exchange was cordial and that residents "asked some very intelligent questions," but admitted that the locals were not in support of the record-setting height.

The proposed condo development, designed by architect David Blakely, would sit on a two-storey podium that would house retail shops and perhaps a restaurant. There'd be a six-level underground garage, seeing as Tega would have dug that huge hole for the decontamination, which would allow one parking spot for each of the planned 286 units.

An eight-storey building is planned for the western side of the site, while the 36-storey tower would sit on the eastern edge, along Parkdale. With a floorplate of about 7,000 square feet, the highrise would be relatively slender. There would be some open space between the two residential buildings.

This design was the third go-round with city planners, said Dimitrakopoulos. Tega originally proposed shorter, but broader, structures. City staff preferred a thinner, taller building that would let more light and air through the structure, as well as cast a narrower shadow on neighbouring properties.

Tega is also prepared to donate a "community benefit" for the extra height. Dimitrakopoulos is suggesting $500,000 in subsidies to artists who might be interested in using third-floor condos as residences and studios.

"In case that doesn't work out, we're prepared to offer the money directly toward another community benefit," said the company CEO.

But already, Kitchissippi Councillor Katherine Hobbs is saying that isn't nearly enough money.

"We will be seeking a significant community benefit," she said Friday from Victoria, B.C. "I would think we'd be looking for at least $1 million."

Hobbs suggested the money could go toward establishing the Hintonburg Hub, a project to bring medical and social services, as well as affordable housing, under one roof. But she added that there are too many issues still to be worked out to make any definitive statements.

"Right now I don't know what to think about the 36 storeys," said Hobbs. "I think it's high, that's for sure."

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen
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  #2  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2011, 12:03 PM
Fraser Fraser is offline
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That's awfully ambitious on Tega's part. They've primarily been limited to low-rise condo buildings and high-end townhomes. Given their design output, I'm a little concerned.
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  #3  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2011, 12:21 PM
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36 floors seems a little high for that area.
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  #4  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2011, 12:53 PM
c_speed3108 c_speed3108 is offline
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I'm normally the first one on here to cheer height, height, height, but this proposal sounds a bit bizarre and out of place for the area.
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  #5  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2011, 1:07 PM
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if it was the northwest corner of Parkdale and Scott, (and part of a plan to develop the whole west side of Parkdale) I might be okay with this, but 36 stories on Parkdale behind the Carleton is reediculous!
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  #6  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2011, 1:10 PM
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Harley613 Harley613 is offline
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they're tearing down the carleton?? one of the few bars where my dad had some wild nights as a young man and so did I when I was a young man haha. i think it's a good location for that kind of height...there's already some high profile in Tunny's and there a few midrise and highrise residentials in the area. it could anchor a nice little area of high density. so many crappy blocks in hintonburg, it could use some serious gentrification in the form of new build and infill...not much to work with in the old buildings.
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  #7  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2011, 1:17 PM
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m0nkyman m0nkyman is offline
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Without seeing the actual design render, I'll reserve judgement, but I do tend to agree that Tega Homes is not the builder I'd choose for a new highest. They are better known for non-descript low rises like Centropolis. Given that they weren't able to put together a full block land assembly for the project leads me to think that they don't really have the chops for it as well.
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  #8  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2011, 1:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley613 View Post
they're tearing down the carleton??
The article says that the Carleton stays
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  #9  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2011, 1:44 PM
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waterloowarrior waterloowarrior is offline
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Considering the reception The Artisan got I don't know how far this will get
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=180638
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  #10  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2011, 9:58 PM
Ottawan Ottawan is offline
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This is wrong, wrong, wrong. The height/density in itself isn't the problem to me (that will surprise few on this board), it is the elimination of what must be heritage industrial buildings. The actual site where the Artisan had been proposed is appropriate for development in my opinion, but the rest of that block contains one of few remnants of Ottawa's industrial past - buildings which complement the unique district that is contained between Parkdale and Holland, Wellington and Scott.

The Parkdale Market Lofts (immediately to the north of this proposed development, accross Spencer) incorporated/converted a portion of industrial warehousing into heritage lofts attached to a new condo tower. IMO that would be the most appropriate form of development on this site as well.
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  #11  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2011, 3:18 PM
S-Man S-Man is offline
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Agree with McC, waterloowarrior and Fraser completely.

Tega Homes? Have they ever built a concrete building over 4 storeys? Not saying they can't, but usually developers build up their projects over time.

When I visualized the location, I though 'Why couldn't this be moved a bit north to a Tunney's Pasture parcel, or to Bayview, both of which are close and would actually have a chance of being built?' When that Artisan project or whatever it was called came out, the community seemed willing to accept 8 storeys, but 9 storeys 'would overwhelm the community and be totally unacceptable'.

I don't have to guess their reaction to this!
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  #12  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2011, 7:48 PM
HintonburgCA HintonburgCA is offline
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The HCA is formulating its response, but thousands of hours over several years have gone in to developing both a Neighbourhood Planning Initiative and the just-passed Community Design Plan, both with City buy-in. If this were ever approved, the City could probably never in good faith suggest a community consultation again - it would simply be a bald-faced lie that it has any interest in holistic planning. What will probably trip this project up - if it's not financing again like the last overly-ambitious crew who couldn't match their plans with actual lenders - will be the Official Plan. We worked hard several years ago to incorporate a clause in the plan that says height increases in Mixed Use Centres have to be gradual from the edge in. The immediate neighbours across Parkdale are an area of two-story homes. These guys will need an Official Plan amendment, and I don't like their chances. It's an ad hoc proposal out of context with anything either going on in the neighbourhood right now or with long-term planning that has community, developer, and City buy-in.

One of these days, an experienced builder with the resources to match plans for "iconic and brash" development with actual world-leading architects will come along and be able to find financing for their project and political support. Then we'll be f&%ed. This, obviously, is not that builder.
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Old Posted Jun 5, 2011, 8:14 PM
reidjr reidjr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HintonburgCA View Post
The HCA is formulating its response, but thousands of hours over several years have gone in to developing both a Neighbourhood Planning Initiative and the just-passed Community Design Plan, both with City buy-in. If this were ever approved, the City could probably never in good faith suggest a community consultation again - it would simply be a bald-faced lie that it has any interest in holistic planning. What will probably trip this project up - if it's not financing again like the last overly-ambitious crew who couldn't match their plans with actual lenders - will be the Official Plan. We worked hard several years ago to incorporate a clause in the plan that says height increases in Mixed Use Centres have to be gradual from the edge in. The immediate neighbours across Parkdale are an area of two-story homes. These guys will need an Official Plan amendment, and I don't like their chances. It's an ad hoc proposal out of context with anything either going on in the neighbourhood right now or with long-term planning that has community, developer, and City buy-in.

One of these days, an experienced builder with the resources to match plans for "iconic and brash" development with actual world-leading architects will come along and be able to find financing for their project and political support. Then we'll be f&%ed. This, obviously, is not that builder.
You could have the worlds best architect come have great plans for a 30 floor building but people would still be aginst it because of the height.
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  #14  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2011, 9:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reidjr View Post
You could have the worlds best architect come have great plans for a 30 floor building but people would still be aginst it because of the height.
The HCA isn't known for being overly NIMBY, so that's a cheap shot. They're not the Glebe.
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  #15  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2011, 9:47 PM
reidjr reidjr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m0nkyman View Post
The HCA isn't known for being overly NIMBY, so that's a cheap shot. They're not the Glebe.
Its not a cheap shot just look around the city no matter where it is it there will be some upset look in orleans people are all up in arms about a 8 floor building thats just one exzample.
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Old Posted Jun 5, 2011, 10:20 PM
HintonburgCA HintonburgCA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reidjr View Post
You could have the worlds best architect come have great plans for a 30 floor building but people would still be aginst it because of the height.
I'm not so sure. The Mixed Use Centre that we all bought into goes from Scott to Wellington. We were careful to ask for - and get - a transition in the Official Plan. If the project were sensitive to that transition requirement by being toward the Scott St. side of the Mixed Use Centre, with a gradual building of height from the south to north, and closer to the centre of the zone from Parkdale/Holland, it might fly. The transition could reasonably start with 8 storey buildings along Parkdale with appropriate setbacks. The seven-storey KRP building, for example, at Spencer doesn't intrude on the Parkdale sidewalk. The developer was good working with us on the garage entrances and some design features to minimize the big wall along Parkdale. I don't think it's had an overly negative impact on the neighbouring two-storey houses (personal opinion). We didn't oppose that development. Mixed Use Centres are going to be dense, after all.

You can certainly see how things could swoop up towards Scott/Holland without a huge impact on Hintonburg visually or in terms of overwhelming the nearby residential areas if it's sensitively treated. Personally, and not on behalf of my association, I could see something like this where the Beer Store is or the lot immediately to the east, with a transition back down to eight storeys along Parkdale.

Traffic studies will be interesting. Parkdale and Wellington are both already choked during peak periods, including the weekend when the Market is in operation. The only viable access in and out will be on Spencer via Holland, which rules out easy Queensway access. That's probably not a big deal, though, if people are using Holland/Scott to get downtown or to Hull during weekday peak periods. From a traffic perspective, though, the closer to Holland/Scott the better with respect to traffic patterns.
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Old Posted Jun 5, 2011, 11:53 PM
S-Man S-Man is offline
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That's a much more detailed, rationale response than we're used to from other community associations in Ottawa (*cough* Glebe, Westboro.....).

I'd like to see this (or something like it - ideally with UNBELIEVABLY GOOD architecture) built somewhere in this city in the Tunney's-Bayview-City Centre area. You'd think Tego would go mid-rise in this spot before eyeing a more viable parcel in a couple of years (assuming the aforementioned lands ever get put for sale).
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  #18  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 12:08 AM
reidjr reidjr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HintonburgCA View Post
I'm not so sure. The Mixed Use Centre that we all bought into goes from Scott to Wellington. We were careful to ask for - and get - a transition in the Official Plan. If the project were sensitive to that transition requirement by being toward the Scott St. side of the Mixed Use Centre, with a gradual building of height from the south to north, and closer to the centre of the zone from Parkdale/Holland, it might fly. The transition could reasonably start with 8 storey buildings along Parkdale with appropriate setbacks. The seven-storey KRP building, for example, at Spencer doesn't intrude on the Parkdale sidewalk. The developer was good working with us on the garage entrances and some design features to minimize the big wall along Parkdale. I don't think it's had an overly negative impact on the neighbouring two-storey houses (personal opinion). We didn't oppose that development. Mixed Use Centres are going to be dense, after all.

You can certainly see how things could swoop up towards Scott/Holland without a huge impact on Hintonburg visually or in terms of overwhelming the nearby residential areas if it's sensitively treated. Personally, and not on behalf of my association, I could see something like this where the Beer Store is or the lot immediately to the east, with a transition back down to eight storeys along Parkdale.

Traffic studies will be interesting. Parkdale and Wellington are both already choked during peak periods, including the weekend when the Market is in operation. The only viable access in and out will be on Spencer via Holland, which rules out easy Queensway access. That's probably not a big deal, though, if people are using Holland/Scott to get downtown or to Hull during weekday peak periods. From a traffic perspective, though, the closer to Holland/Scott the better with respect to traffic patterns.
I have to give you credit for such a detailed reply with my last post it was not mean to to be a cheap shot its just over and over people are aginst projects etc its great to see your group is very open minded.
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 12:15 AM
HintonburgCA HintonburgCA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S-Man View Post
That's a much more detailed, rationale response than we're used to from other community associations in Ottawa (*cough* Glebe, Westboro.....).

I'd like to see this (or something like it - ideally with UNBELIEVABLY GOOD architecture) built somewhere in this city in the Tunney's-Bayview-City Centre area. You'd think Tego would go mid-rise in this spot before eyeing a more viable parcel in a couple of years (assuming the aforementioned lands ever get put for sale).
I think that's the problem. There's this juicy parcel of land next to the Parkdale Park, and it's brutally contaminated. So, the owners seem to keep trying to cash in. No credible developer will touch it - they know they simply can't develop the land with enough height to make it economical. Our friends at Ashcroft and Minto have more sense than to propose a 36-storey tower next to two-storey singles and doubles. There's OMB battles where you can roll over community opposition, and then there's 36 storeys in the face of a series of consensus plan about how this land should be developed. So, first we get the Artisan guys - and you remember how warm and fuzzy they were - and now this. You'd be amazed at how much work is done on a volunteer basis in Hintonburg day in and day out on development issues. When there's credible proposals, like the Currents building, the KRP building, the new Domicile condos at Holland, even the new HUB proposal that will bring more affordable housing to the community and will most certainly require additional height, we roll up our sleeves, work through concerns, and get the job done. But that's all volunteer hours. I really, really wish the city were more proactive about nipping crap like this proposal in the bud instead of making us jump through the hoops. The owners here need to be told in no uncertain terms that their next partners had better not be another one of these fiascos. The land value there is, one of these days, going to make development within the envelope viable. In the meantime, they're going to have to be patient.
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Old Posted Jun 9, 2011, 2:50 PM
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Found an image with the article [by Joanne Chianello, Ottawa Citizen June 4, 2011] from above, at http://www.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/viewer.aspx . It certainly stands out.
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