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  #1  
Old Posted: Nov 11, 2011, 3:19 AM
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Detroit's Imminent State Financial Takeover / Bankruptcy

Discuss.

The mayor has warned that without drastic cuts the city will run out of cash by February 2012. Frankly there isn't any financial wiggle room left. There are no valuable assets left to sell and even those that could be sold no one would want to buy them. The city can't legally or politically raise taxes further and it has already cut to the bone. The only thing that remains is for current workers to reduce their salaries and incomes so that the City can pay the generous pensions and benefits for retirees. I'm guess that will not go over too well with bargaining current employees. Personally, I believe that under financial management if Detroit can reduce some of its unsustainable long-term costs (pensions and retiree benefits), reform the current bureaucracy to make it efficient, and develop policies to retain and attract businesses and residents then Detroit will see growth that it hasn't seen in more than 50 years. Frankly, with property in the city cheap and some areas rapidly becoming vacant, a little help from the Feds and State could go a long way to reviving the city, even if that means that some neighborhood would be leveled. If financial management drags on without shedding of costs and reform of city services than Detroit will only accelerate its decline.
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Old Posted: Nov 11, 2011, 8:56 AM
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Well, with the mayor having screaming about the threat of an EFM since the day he took office, who the hell knows if he's not just crying wolf, again. But, if he is for real, this time, the two options are really quite simple. One, the unions blink first again, and pay even more for their healthcare premiums and are switched to 401(k)s, or two, they don't and then who knows what given past games of chicken. My feeling is that the unions will agree to paying more towards their healthcare, but I think the pensions may be the sticking point.

What's really kind of ironic and strange, though, is that Detroit actually has a council this time that was calling for more layoffs and concessions than the mayor was in the last budget, and it was the mayor who declined to make the cuts. In fact, the council held a rare joint media event calling on the mayor to follow through on the council's committment to making further cuts. So, this coming from him is really kind of rich, and shows either incompetence or a lack of leadership skills on his part.

All this said, at the end of the day, people aren't moving out of the city because of its financial situation. The city could be back in the black, tomorrow, and the fact is that city services aren't going to be getting any better, at least not enough to keep and attract people. Certainly not a reason not to get one's fiscal house in order, but I think we need to be realistic about what a fiscally sound Detroit will mean in the physical appearance of the city and how it's able to dispense city services, and I don't think it will mean much in regard to those things. Parts of Detroit have been allowed to decay to such a degree that even a financially healthy Detroit will need massive amounts of state and federal funds even to get rid of excess infrastructure, let alone rebuild what needs to be rebuilt. I appreciate the help the Feds are giving to see by way of their Neighborhood Stabilization Fund -- Detroit has gotten rid of 3,000 execess homes -- but we're not controlling blight, we're helplessly chasing it.

The situation just seems so hopeless without an integrated local, state, and national plan for urban areas. Detroit's a stark example of how we've allowed many of our inner-city urban areas to fail, but it's not the only example, unfortunately.
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  #3  
Old Posted: Nov 11, 2011, 4:35 PM
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Originally Posted by LMich View Post
Well, with the mayor having screaming about the threat of an EFM since the day he took office, who the hell knows if he's not just crying wolf, again. But, if he is for real, this time, the two options are really quite simple. One, the unions blink first again, and pay even more for their healthcare premiums and are switched to 401(k)s, or two, they don't and then who knows what given past games of chicken. My feeling is that the unions will agree to paying more towards their healthcare, but I think the pensions may be the sticking point.

What's really kind of ironic and strange, though, is that Detroit actually has a council this time that was calling for more layoffs and concessions than the mayor was in the last budget, and it was the mayor who declined to make the cuts. In fact, the council held a rare joint media event calling on the mayor to follow through on the council's committment to making further cuts. So, this coming from him is really kind of rich, and shows either incompetence or a lack of leadership skills on his part.

All this said, at the end of the day, people aren't moving out of the city because of its financial situation. The city could be back in the black, tomorrow, and the fact is that city services aren't going to be getting any better, at least not enough to keep and attract people. Certainly not a reason not to get one's fiscal house in order, but I think we need to be realistic about what a fiscally sound Detroit will mean in the physical appearance of the city and how it's able to dispense city services, and I don't think it will mean much in regard to those things. Parts of Detroit have been allowed to decay to such a degree that even a financially healthy Detroit will need massive amounts of state and federal funds even to get rid of excess infrastructure, let alone rebuild what needs to be rebuilt. I appreciate the help the Feds are giving to see by way of their Neighborhood Stabilization Fund -- Detroit has gotten rid of 3,000 execess homes -- but we're not controlling blight, we're helplessly chasing it.

The situation just seems so hopeless without an integrated local, state, and national plan for urban areas. Detroit's a stark example of how we've allowed many of our inner-city urban areas to fail, but it's not the only example, unfortunately.
All of this, 100%. Detroit was in the black during the 1990s (with a top credit rating) and that did little to stop the city from hemorrhaging residents.
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Old Posted: Nov 11, 2011, 10:21 PM
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It would help with attracting business into the city if the city were more financially stable.
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  #5  
Old Posted: Nov 11, 2011, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMich View Post
Well, with the mayor having screaming about the threat of an EFM since the day he took office, who the hell knows if he's not just crying wolf, again. But, if he is for real, this time, the two options are really quite simple. One, the unions blink first again, and pay even more for their healthcare premiums and are switched to 401(k)s, or two, they don't and then who knows what given past games of chicken. My feeling is that the unions will agree to paying more towards their healthcare, but I think the pensions may be the sticking point.

What's really kind of ironic and strange, though, is that Detroit actually has a council this time that was calling for more layoffs and concessions than the mayor was in the last budget, and it was the mayor who declined to make the cuts. In fact, the council held a rare joint media event calling on the mayor to follow through on the council's committment to making further cuts. So, this coming from him is really kind of rich, and shows either incompetence or a lack of leadership skills on his part.

All this said, at the end of the day, people aren't moving out of the city because of its financial situation. The city could be back in the black, tomorrow, and the fact is that city services aren't going to be getting any better, at least not enough to keep and attract people. Certainly not a reason not to get one's fiscal house in order, but I think we need to be realistic about what a fiscally sound Detroit will mean in the physical appearance of the city and how it's able to dispense city services, and I don't think it will mean much in regard to those things. Parts of Detroit have been allowed to decay to such a degree that even a financially healthy Detroit will need massive amounts of state and federal funds even to get rid of excess infrastructure, let alone rebuild what needs to be rebuilt. I appreciate the help the Feds are giving to see by way of their Neighborhood Stabilization Fund -- Detroit has gotten rid of 3,000 execess homes -- but we're not controlling blight, we're helplessly chasing it.

The situation just seems so hopeless without an integrated local, state, and national plan for urban areas. Detroit's a stark example of how we've allowed many of our inner-city urban areas to fail, but it's not the only example, unfortunately.
Well, I'll have to disagree on a few points.

You're right, Detroit could balance its budget tomorrow and residents would still flee, but without at least getting it's financial house in order Detroit will not have the resources to staunch the tide of residents leaving. Let's also not forget the tax paying small business that are leaving the city too because of break-ins and tax rates. Most middle class residents with jobs wishing to stay in SE Michigan (and businesses) leave because of crime, poor city services, and tax rates that are not competitive with suburban communities. Without stable finances Detroit will be forced to make more police layoffs and that certainly can't be good for crime. Moreover, cutting workers alone has not worked. Detroit lost as many residents between the 2000 census (around the time when the city workforce peaked) and the 2010 census as those residents lost between the census of 1980 and the 2000 census.

And the real issue with Detroit is not residents alone, but who remains in Detroit. I apologize if I am too frank, but Detroit's concentration of poverty (and lack of middle income and higher residents) and the problems that poverty brings detracts from those with decent jobs, incomes, wealth and education from moving into the city. Detroit's population could easily drop to half its present level and the city would be much better financial shape with better city services (and lower crime to boot) if those 350,000 Detroiters had incomes, jobs, and spending habits of those in say Farmington Hills or Novi. Besides a few who will move downtown and maybe midtown, you will not begin to get the healthy mix of poor, middle income, and rich residents until the city at least sends the signal that it has hit rock bottom and starts to stabilize its finances and starts to make decisions to attract the right mix of residents. Cutting alone will only delay the day of reckoning and make it more painful too. We've tried it for at least 30 years and it hasn't worked, but I guarantee Detroit's leaders wish they had as much wiggle room as leaders had in 1980 than they do now.

I also disagree that large abandoned areas are always a bad thing for Detroit, especially going forward. On this forum we have noted that some of the advantages that sun-belt cities and suburbs have used over the last few decades to lure residents and businesses from older cities include cheap land (farmland) and the lack of NIMBYs (at least initially). Those large abandoned tracks give Detroit that over other older cities. If there is any hope of getting Federal and State aide to make large scale transformations of those abandoned areas in Detroit it will more than likely involve tax and regulatory incentives to repopulate those areas with business and residents.
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Old Posted: Nov 18, 2011, 5:16 AM
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It's not everyday that you get almost everyone from the Free Press, city council, and even the most conservative from the Detroit News agreeing - Rome is burning while Emperor Bing is playing on his fiddle!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroit Free Press Editorial
Editorial: Not good enough, Mr. Mayor

Bing's tough measures still don't measure up to crisis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroit News Editorial
Editorial: Bing's response falls short
Deeper, immediate cuts are needed to keep Detroit from running out of cash
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  #7  
Old Posted: Nov 18, 2011, 8:01 AM
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It's not everyday that you get almost everyone from the Free Press, city council, and even the most conservative from the Detroit News agreeing - Rome is burning while Emperor Bing is playing on his fiddle!
I was stunned when I saw the details of the plan. The entire thing hinges on your typical, Detroit mayoral book-cooking. Like Kilpatrick trying to save a single year's budget by selling Detroit's toll revenue on the tunnel, this plan is built around an even more unrealistic ploy of clawing back $200 million from promised-but-referred state revenue sharing. He can't be serious. Even if it was likely he could convince the legislature to infuse Detroit with some more money (ha! Fat chance), this would just be kicking the can down the road, again. It doesn't address the structural deficit. In the very best case scenario this would get Detroit one fiscal year extra of breathing room.

I thought this dude was supposed to be a businessman. If I didn't know any better, I'd say that this was self-sabotage. After hearing the plan, Snyder kind of immediately came out and said that given the speech weak-tea speech, that it's very unlikely that he's not going to start a formal review of the city's finances.

Sounds like Bing just kind of gave up, and he's fooling himself if he thinks Snyder would choose him as the emergency manager. How can you have the Detroit city council, or all bodies, calling for deeper cuts and not get in front of that? They have practically given him cover for cuts, and he keeps refusing. They are actually considering over 2,000 layoffs, and he's refusing. I mean, you just don't ever get these chances in Detroit, and Bing won't pull the trigger?! It blows my mind.
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Old Posted: Nov 18, 2011, 5:06 PM
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With the extent of the cuts, Detroit should just become a right-to-work city. Eliminate all unions. Isn't an EFM a near-equivalent?
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Old Posted: Nov 18, 2011, 5:13 PM
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I thought this dude was supposed to be a businessman.
Didn't the Bing Group file for bankruptcy after selling itself to a competitor for fire sale prices (and a lot of his former execs are now in city government). I've never bought the businessman is the best to run government argument after the failures of Dubya.
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Old Posted: Nov 18, 2011, 9:16 PM
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I don't think it is the unions killing the city so much as it is the pensions of former city employees. If the city could get rid of a huge chunk of its pension obligations, it would do far more than busting unions.
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Old Posted: Nov 18, 2011, 10:34 PM
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With the extent of the cuts, Detroit should just become a right-to-work city. Eliminate all unions. Isn't an EFM a near-equivalent?
It may be strange for me of all people to say this, but the unions can't be blamed for Detroit's problems. More than anything, national policies against manufacturing and Detroit's long-term population decline have created a structural deficit with little room to maneuver. Detroit could cut all of its employees and retiree costs (pensions & healthcare) will eat up a significant amount of the general fund budget.

Frankly, with additional cuts I wouldn't be surprised if the average city of Detroit unionized employee will cost the city less than a similar non-union employee in other cities.
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Old Posted: Nov 18, 2011, 11:04 PM
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With the extent of the cuts, Detroit should just become a right-to-work city. Eliminate all unions. Isn't an EFM a near-equivalent?

That's a good one.
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Old Posted: Nov 22, 2011, 12:04 PM
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The council has released an outline of their fiscal rescue plan, and it's pretty brutal:

Quote:
Detroit City Council's plan: Increase income taxes, cut up to 2,300 jobs

By Steve Neveling | Detroit Free Press

November 22, 2011

From increasing income taxes to laying off more than 500 police officers and firefighters, the Detroit City Council rolled out an ambitious -- and painful -- plan Monday that it hopes will save the city from insolvency and an emergency manager.

The plan calls for increasing income taxes for residents from 2.5% to 3% and nonresidents from 1.25% to 1.5%.

Besides the income tax hike, the proposals include:

• Sharing health department services with a hospital or Wayne County.

• Cutting up to 2,300 workers.

• Eliminating subsidies to the Detroit Zoo, Detroit Economic Growth Corp., Eastern Market, the Detroit Institute of Arts and the Charles H. Wright Museum of African American History.

• Demanding the Detroit Public Schools pay its $15-million electricity bill to the city.


The rescue plan is a last-ditch effort to avoid an emergency manager as the city faces the prospect of running out of cash by April to deliver basic services and meet payroll.

The council is to reconvene at 2 p.m. today to debate the proposals, which would be added to Mayor Dave Bing's plan to layoff 1,000 workers.

...

Among the most unpopular proposals is increasing the income tax of residents from 2.5% to 3% and nonresidents from 1.25% to 1.5% to raise about $50 million. But it's anything but certain because the state needs to support the increase, which council members concede may be a long shot.

...

"We have to be realistic and assume we aren't going to get any concessions," Councilman Ken Cockrel Jr. said. "I think we are going to have to lay off 2,300 employees, knowing that sounds horrible. I just don't see any other way."

The city has 11,000 workers, but only 7,300 are paid from the general fund budget, which the council is trying to cut.

Of those 7,300, nearly 4,000 come from the police and fire departments.

Council members said Bing's plan to lay off 1,000 workers -- at a savings of about $14 million -- falls far short of the kinds of cuts needed to save the city from insolvency.

...
The article says they are shooting for shaving off $150 million a year, which would be more than enough to keep the city solvent, and that if they added in privatizing DDOT operations (or finally finding a way to merge it with SMART), you could add another $85 million in savings.
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Old Posted: Nov 22, 2011, 2:43 PM
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DDOT should have been regionalized decades ago. I hope this near-death experience will finally get the city to hand over transit services to a regional authority.
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Old Posted: Nov 22, 2011, 5:03 PM
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^ Yep, Cleveland managed to merge its city transit system with three suburban systems into the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority ("GCRTA" or "RTA") way back in 1975. Detroit, you're only 36 or 37 years behind a leader such as Cleveland. Joking aside, the real problem with DDOT is that it takes many more man-hours than comparable systems to clean, maintain, and repair buses with much worse results. Frankly, I can't think of any transit system with as many broken, dirty buses, and poor customer service as Detroit. I can't imagine telling current workers that they'll have to be more like Cleveland, St. Louis, or Chicago and do more work with less people will go over well unless you have the privatization threat.
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Old Posted: Nov 23, 2011, 7:39 AM
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DDOT should have been regionalized decades ago. I hope this near-death experience will finally get the city to hand over transit services to a regional authority.
Honestly, both systems are reticent to give up control; I really wouldn't put this solely on the city. Neither of the systems are sustainable in their current forms. More to the point, a regional system actually has to exist for either of the two to give their systems over to to begin with. I'm pretty sure that the legislature is the only body legally allowed created transit authorities.
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Old Posted: Nov 25, 2011, 9:21 PM
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An article in the Windsor Star today said the city council is hinting at up to 20% property tax increases. How can this possibly be a solution? You're punishing those who have actually stayed in the city and you'll just drive them away eventually. Isn't there anything that the state or the federal government can do in terms of amalagmations, like how bad do things have to get in Detroit before they'll actually do something? They just let it keep rotting away, it's insane.
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Old Posted: Nov 25, 2011, 10:54 PM
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The only thing that could possibly not create total chaos would be to merge the tri-county area into a single unigov system.
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Old Posted: Nov 25, 2011, 11:26 PM
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An article in the Windsor Star today said the city council is hinting at up to 20% property tax increases. How can this possibly be a solution? You're punishing those who have actually stayed in the city and you'll just drive them away eventually.
If I remember correctly, Detroit is already at the property tax rate limits under state law and I can't see the state allowing Detroit to raise its already very high property taxes further. Detroit could raise income taxes, but may require approval from the state Legislature to raise them past a certain limit.

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Originally Posted by Blitz
Isn't there anything that the state or the federal government can do in terms of amalagmations, like how bad do things have to get in Detroit before they'll actually do something? They just let it keep rotting away, it's insane.
It's doubtful that anything could be done under current state constitution and laws and even if there were there is no political desire to merge any healthy city with the city of Detroit. Many cities that border Detroit are in financial troubles themselves, notably Highland Park, Hamtramck, and River Rouge, so merging with Detroit will only create a bigger problem. The major problem, besides laws with may not allow mergers especially across county lines, is that Detroit's taxes are far higher than most suburbs and those high taxes get Detroit the worst city services of any city in the region besides Highland Park. Many suburban voters would balk at having to pay higher taxes and get poorer services just to absorb Detroit's problems.
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Old Posted: Nov 26, 2011, 12:23 AM
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Ok, looking back it just says "taxes" and I assumed that meant property taxes. I didn't realize that cities in the U.S. have income taxes. To me it seems like the mayor has the better solution but some kind of unigov would be the only thing that would really work. I'm sure there would be squabbling but the higher levels of government should recognize that it's for the greater good to merge everything together in this unique situation.
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