PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[Austinlee]

Heres a screencap from the P-G video of the new Duquesne Dorm building.

[Jonboy1983]

Is there any chance that they could just re-route some freight trains/traffic away from the Pennsylvania RR/Ft. Wayne RR alignment in Downtown (owned by NS I believe) with this new work on the CSX line? It would be nice to see fewer heavy long freight trains rolling right through Downtown.

It would be nice to see some freight trains removed from the Pittsburgh-Greensburg corridor altogether, but I kinda doubt that will happen anytime soon...

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

Is there any chance that they could just re-route some freight trains/traffic away from the Pennsylvania RR/Ft. Wayne RR alignment in Downtown (owned by NS I believe) with this new work on the CSX line? It would be nice to see fewer heavy long freight trains rolling right through Downtown.

It would be nice to see some freight trains removed from the Pittsburgh-Greensburg corridor altogether, but I kinda doubt that will happen anytime soon...

Nope. Did you read the article? Exactly the opposite. The east coast of the US is about to get way more cargo due to 5+ billion in upgrades to the Panama Canal for bigger ships which is gonna make the rail lines much busier. The article also says CSX is gonna build a new $50 million dollar freight facility in Allegheny or Beaver County to be announced this year.

Could be Beaver County where I live, right near this thing; A massive railyard:

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

So does anyone know what is planned for the strip of land just west of the south end of the Fort Pitt Bridge, between the ramps and the trail/RR/river? It looks like they are creating some sort of lot, and they are currently pouring the bases for what could be light or electricity poles.

Could it be some parking for the new Riverhounds stadium once it's built? Or maybe an access road for it?

Aaron (Glowrock)

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

Nope. Did you read the article? Exactly the opposite. The east coast of the US is about to get way more cargo due to 5+ billion in upgrades to the Panama Canal for bigger ships which is gonna make the rail lines much busier. The article also says CSX is gonna build a new $50 million dollar freight facility in Allegheny or Beaver County to be announced this year.

Could be Beaver County where I live, right near this thing; A massive railyard:

I did read the article. Apparently I missed the part about them wanting to build a massive rail yard in Allegheny or Beaver County. Is that the Conway Yard in that pic?

Also, pertaining to cargo traffic, Philadelphia is dredging the Delaware River to allow larger ships to come into the harbor there.

In a sense it is a shame. There goes Pittsburgh's chances at high-speed intercity rail pretty much... If they were to allow for some newer alignments to be constructed, I'm sure they'd end up bypassing Pittsburgh anyway. My new vision for the North Side includes a new intercity passenger rail/commuter rail station built onto the existing elevated tracks between Federal and Sandusky Streets. I guess that part of my vision will forever be a pipedream...

[BrianTH]

Real HSR will likely require a new ROW anyway.

Anyway, they have actually realigned Station Square Drive so that it bends right as it is coming east past the trees, then continues parallel to the ramps and on under the bridge, thereby creating the space for the long rectangular lot I saw them working on. Old alignment:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=pitts...&deg=180&z=198

My working theory is that it might be part of the parking lot for the Riverhounds stadium, but I am not sure that is necessary with all the other parking that should still be available east of the bridge. I'll be interested to find out.

[AaronPGH]

Originally Posted by markson33

I wouldn't get your hopes up on Millcraft. They only do projects if they can get some government money, and I don't see the city/county/state ponying up for station square.

Walnut Capital is the developer who would have the vision for it, but with Bakery Square 2 on the drawing boards their plate is probably full.

Good points. Maybe someone from outside – like a PMC. They have been pretty bullish on downtown lately and seem to have deep pockets.

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

Good points. Maybe someone from outside – like a PMC. They have been pretty bullish on downtown lately and seem to have deep pockets.

Funny you should mention PMC. There's an article on the "tale of two buildings" that references PMC.

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...future-649367/

Naturally it's about the uncertain fate of the Union Trust and James Reed buildings.

[fizzard]

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

Is there any chance that they could just re-route some freight trains/traffic away from the Pennsylvania RR/Ft. Wayne RR alignment in Downtown (owned by NS I believe) with this new work on the CSX line? It would be nice to see fewer heavy long freight trains rolling right through Downtown.

It would be nice to see some freight trains removed from the Pittsburgh-Greensburg corridor altogether, but I kinda doubt that will happen anytime soon...

But NS already has its own double-stack route through the South Side. Called the "Mon Line," it runs along the base of the hills, parallel to the CSX line which is closer to the river bank.

NS could use its Mon Line as a bypass if it really wanted to, but why would it want to?

The NS Pittsburgh Line doesn't roll through downtown anyway; it just skirts one corner of it.

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by fizzard

But NS already has its own double-stack route through the South Side. Called the "Mon Line," it runs along the base of the hills, parallel to the CSX line which is closer to the river bank.

NS could use its Mon Line as a bypass if it really wanted to, but why would it want to?

The NS Pittsburgh Line doesn't roll through downtown anyway; it just skirts one corner of it.

I didn't realize that alignment was owned by NS. Or maybe I did and just didn't realize. Who owns the Allegheny-Ohio Alignment? Is that also NS since the Pennsylvania/Ft. Wayne RR alignment merges with it at the northern abutment of the double-decked bridge heading west from Penn Station?

I seriously think Pittsburgh could use a new rail station. I think demand could be there to support numerous train departures for inter-city/regional destinations, but the available alignments are all clogged, it seems, with freight traffic. The fact that Penn Station is relegated to an arm pitt of a terminal is just insulting to anyone arriving there by train. It pretty much screams, "welcome to Pittsburgh, just another crummy armpit in the country..."

[glowrock]

No doubt, the extremely clogged railway ROW's due to very heavy freight-train traffic certainly is a major blockade to any truly regional passenger lines around here. Not really sure what could possibly be done, especially since it seems nearly every potential corridor is already fully occupied by freight corridors. Between the NS and CNX lines on either side of Carson St., there are audible sounds of trains at nearly all times of the day and night along the South Side. I haven't taken any accurate counts of the overall train traffic, but suffice it to say it's dozens per day on each corridor...

Aaron (Glowrock)

[BrianTH]

I think first there has to be a commitment to actually building real passenger rail lines between Pittsburgh and at least one other city. Without real lines, there is unlikely to be the need for a new station, or new path to that station.

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I think first there has to be a commitment to actually building real passenger rail lines between Pittsburgh and at least one other city. Without real lines, there is unlikely to be the need for a new station, or new path to that station.

Unfortunately, I can't think of a single relatively fast corridor to connect Pittsburgh with the major cities of the East Coast, whether that be Philly, NYC, DC, Boston, etc... Of course Amtrak does have a connection, but it's extremely slow. The only real connection might be through a place like Buffalo, Cleveland or Columbus, and I really don't see those cities as developing major passenger rail hubs anytime in the near or mid-term, either.

Aaron (Glowrock)

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by glowrock

Unfortunately, I can't think of a single relatively fast corridor to connect Pittsburgh with the major cities of the East Coast, whether that be Philly, NYC, DC, Boston, etc... Of course Amtrak does have a connection, but it's extremely slow. The only real connection might be through a place like Buffalo, Cleveland or Columbus, and I really don't see those cities as developing major passenger rail hubs anytime in the near or mid-term, either.

Aaron (Glowrock)

Funny you should mention Cleveland. Perhaps you've heard of something called the Ohio Hub project. This would have created a main hub up in Cleveland with a smaller hub in Columbus, both providing high speed rail service to Pittsburgh. Unfortunately, a certain narrowminded idiot in Columbus (achoo-Kasich) killed that project during his first days in office as Ohio Governor...

Still, his neighbors up in Michigan and over in Indiana are trying to advance the midwest rail initiative, which calls for higher speed rail -- up to 110 mph. Soon, they'll have trains topping out at 110 along a couple of corridors linking Detroit and Chicago. It's only a matter of time before this eventually makes its way into Ohio and down to Pittsburgh...

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by glowrock

Unfortunately, I can't think of a single relatively fast corridor to connect Pittsburgh with the major cities of the East Coast, whether that be Philly, NYC, DC, Boston, etc... Of course Amtrak does have a connection, but it's extremely slow. The only real connection might be through a place like Buffalo, Cleveland or Columbus, and I really don't see those cities as developing major passenger rail hubs anytime in the near or mid-term, either.

A multi-state consortium has proposed a reasonable plan for trains in the 90-125mph range that would include connections between Pittsburgh and Cleveland/Columbus, with the Cleveland link upgradeable in the future to true HSR:

http://www.midwesthsr.org/network



Philly to Harrisburg is already evolving along that path, and once Pittsburgh was plugged into Philly it would be able to leverage Acela for connections up to NY and down to DC. Unfortunately, the Pittsburgh to Harrisburg connection has been allowed to languish with little of the way in planning until recently, and it likely will be a difficult link to address. I'd like to see a brand new ROW designed for true HSR, but you could also add a dedicated third track along the NS/Amtrak (former Pennsylvania RR Main Line) ROW for trains in that 90-125mph range. I've seen estimates a third track would cost around $1.5B.

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

A multi-state consortium has proposed a reasonable plan for trains in the 90-125mph range that would include connections between Pittsburgh and Cleveland/Columbus, with the Cleveland link upgradeable in the future to true HSR:

http://www.midwesthsr.org/network



Philly to Harrisburg is already evolving along that path, and once Pittsburgh was plugged into Philly it would be able to leverage Acela for connections up to NY and down to DC. Unfortunately, the Pittsburgh to Harrisburg connection has been allowed to languish with little of the way in planning until recently, and it likely will be a difficult link to address. I'd like to see a brand new ROW designed for true HSR, but you could also add a dedicated third track along the NS/Amtrak (former Pennsylvania RR Main Line) ROW for trains in that 90-125mph range. I've seen estimates a third track would cost around $1.5B.

the thing is that NS would be against a third track designated for such use. That is a relatively low cost considering some freeway projects far exceed that cost. Yet, they're the ones allowed to come to fruition, but noooo, rail investment is excessive...

[Buzz Pittsburgh]

By request, a few photos from the Southside Works construction. I'm not by any means a professional, but I hope my photos will give you guys an idea of how these projects are doing.

First up, the new Aldi.


I didn't realize the old Goodwill was at the right end of this block until I looked it up this morning. Sorry (Austinlee) I didn't get any up close pictures of it.


Now coming up the block to the CSX Tunnel.















Here's a link to some history of the CSX tunnel over at PGH bridges and tunnels, one of my faves.http://pghbridges.com/pittsburghE/05...orksrr_tun.htm

Now for some pictures of the Hyatt House. It's almost if not already topped off, with pieces of the outside completed.













Some other random photos from Southside Works...








I like the look of these buildings. Slightly industrial, exposed steel, and a good density. I think this kind of density (not necessarily design) should be used in the Strip District.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

the thing is that NS would be against a third track designated for such use. That is a relatively low cost considering some freeway projects far exceed that cost. Yet, they're the ones allowed to come to fruition, but noooo, rail investment is excessive...

Also cost-competitive with airport expansions.

By the way, if push came to shove, we don't need to give NS a choice (railroads know all about how that works).

[BrianTH]

Thanks Buzz! Very informative.

[AaronPGH]

Man that hotel is ugly....