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  #261  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2012, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
The problem is there is just so damn much of this. Brown, beige, and grey utilitarian structures. Each one in and of itself is not exactly ugly, but there's just so much repetition. Street after street it's practically the same thing. And many look dull and dingy from weathering, graffiti, and possible lack of maintenance.
Better than a Vancouver special or most anything in Toronto, not to mention the suburban hellscape of Calgary...

Most of Montreal's ugliness is in the crumbling infrastructure and industrial decay (some of which is pretty cool though)
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  #262  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2012, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by mike474 View Post
Better than a Vancouver special or most anything in Toronto, not to mention the suburban hellscape of Calgary...

Most of Montreal's ugliness is in the crumbling infrastructure and industrial decay (some of which is pretty cool though)
Calgary's 45 minutes from the Rockies and has some of the prettier towers in the country. No one here is complaining
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  #263  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2012, 12:14 AM
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Am I being aggressive? I guess I just find the incessant myopia on this board annoying sometimes.

Yes, I can certainly understand that many Germans would probably find Vancouver more appealing than Montreal for the reasons you mention. And while Toronto is my absolute favourite city in Canada, I'm under no illusions as to its beauty. It has tons of charm, and is visually appealing in lots of ways, but it's not beautiful per se.

Here's how beauty is defined: The quality that gives pleasure to the mind or senses and is associated with such properties as harmony of form or colour, excellence of artistry, truthfulness, and originality.

What streets fulfill this definition? I can think of several in Montreal and Quebec City. I can think of none anywhere else that fulfill each aspect of the definition, particularly the part about artistry.
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  #264  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2012, 12:39 AM
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Toronto

Toronto by Cobby17, on Flickr

and two of my favourites from 2010




By interchange42 on urbantoronto.ca.
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  #265  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2012, 12:40 AM
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Rousseau, you're taking your own perception and using it to try to say that others are wrong. That just doesn't work.

Oh, and the above, to me, is beautiful. The detail, the colour, the progress, the diversity, the balance.
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  #266  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2012, 12:57 AM
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I get what Rousseau is saying, in the idea of (urban) beauty in a very narrowly defined, traditional, quaint sort of way. But I however, see no reason why something like this can't be "beautiful":


Photo by Mr. John


Visual appeal = beauty. Unless your definition of beauty is limited to stone rowhouses, manicured gardens, and historic offices - cutting-edge modern architecture, grit & decay, modest detached houses, mid-century brutalist architecture and so on can just as well be beautiful.
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  #267  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2012, 2:37 AM
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I think this is the most beautiful area in Canada:









But then again as everyone keeps fixating it is in the eye of the beholder! Point is, every city has its diamonds and every city has its coal.
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  #268  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2012, 4:07 AM
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The Exchange in Winnipeg really is a gem.
Winnipeg truly is a beautiful city.
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  #269  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2012, 5:54 AM
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Beauty is subjective. In fact I was recently showing one of my aunts photos which I took in Paris last summer, and she would not believe me when I stated that Paris was a beautiful city, and that I could believe that Calgary and Edmonton were in fact, on the whole, pretty ugly.
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  #270  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2012, 12:15 PM
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Most of Paris is not even pretty and consist of an endless sea of concrete and beige stucco. Same for London, Budapest, Rome... Montreal is the same, most of the central neighbourhoods are interesting architecturally speaking (CDN, NDG, Outremont, Plateau, Old Montreal, Westmount and some parts of Villeray, Rosemont, HoMA and the West Island) But you can't expect to see nice architecture all over the place. And the "older is better" is not always true. It's like saying that our cities pale in comparison with our european counterparts because the latter are much older. 1% to 3% of those cities consist of medieval architecture and all the rest is no older than most of our cities. Some european cities are indeed more interesting, not because they are 1500 years old (most of what was built in the last 1300 years is gone anyways) but because Canada had no reason to build prestigious buildings for a long time. And just when we started to build prestigious and expensive buildings, we had to stop after WWII. Most US cities were bigger at that time and have an interesting stock of pre-war buildings, thing that many Canadian cities lack.

Last edited by le calmar; Mar 24, 2012 at 12:28 PM.
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  #271  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2012, 1:41 PM
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Beauty can be found everywhere. Also as we all know beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Montreal, Quebec City, and Halifax have the most well preserved old areas, but most other Canadian cities still have enough to be considered beautiful if that's what it takes for you.


Some shots I've taken over the years of things I find to be of beauty.















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  #272  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2012, 4:20 PM
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Picture by Alain Roberge, from LaPresse's friday paper edition showing the student manif on Sherbrooke street.



Source: http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...85964024_n.jpg
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  #273  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2012, 4:32 PM
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^how beautiful
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  #274  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2012, 2:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
Am I being aggressive? I guess I just find the incessant myopia on this board annoying sometimes.

Yes, I can certainly understand that many Germans would probably find Vancouver more appealing than Montreal for the reasons you mention. And while Toronto is my absolute favourite city in Canada, I'm under no illusions as to its beauty. It has tons of charm, and is visually appealing in lots of ways, but it's not beautiful per se.

Here's how beauty is defined: The quality that gives pleasure to the mind or senses and is associated with such properties as harmony of form or colour, excellence of artistry, truthfulness, and originality.

What streets fulfill this definition? I can think of several in Montreal and Quebec City. I can think of none anywhere else that fulfill each aspect of the definition, particularly the part about artistry.
I would like to speak out in defence of Rousseau, who was responding to a ''golly, gosh, gasp'' type of comment from JMT about Canada having many beautiful cities. I don't really see how anyone can say this is so, unless one a) has little knowledge of cities around the world or b) is blinded by patriotism.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but as Rousseau says there are still conventions of beauty that most people will agree upon.

Even the cities that Rousseau cited, Montreal and Quebec City, could best be described as the best of a mediocre lot. In a country reknowed for beautiful cities, they wouldn't really stand out at all. You know, if Frankfurt, the least loved German city, was magically placed in North America it would be considered one of the continent's most attractive cities!

Sure, Canadian cities are on the whole far better places to live than many of the world's most beautiful cities, which are often urban museum pieces offering a good quality of life to only the richest of the rich, while most everyone else there struggles to get by.

But please people, let's not fall in the trap of saying that Canada has *everything* and arguing naively and annoyingly with anyone that dares allude to the contrary.
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  #275  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2012, 2:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Roquentin View Post
^how beautiful
I was one of them, it was amazing!
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  #276  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2012, 3:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I would like to speak out in defence of Rousseau, who was responding to a ''golly, gosh, gasp'' type of comment from JMT about Canada having many beautiful cities. I don't really see how anyone can say this is so, unless one a) has little knowledge of cities around the world or b) is blinded by patriotism.
This belief that a ) patriotism is the root of all evil, b ) if you don't agree, an opinion must be based on ignorance, and c ) only someone blinded by patriotism and ignorance could find Canadian cities beautiful, is, quite frankly, something that comes from a particular perspective that is different, but no more right.

Quote:
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but as Rousseau says there are still conventions of beauty that most people will agree upon.
Most people? Have you done a survey? Do you think that most people would find the Vancouver skyline to be ugly? What about Toronto, as viewed from the island, on a beautiful summer day?

You see, there is more to world, and more to the perception of so many people, than some narrow idea of what urban beauty is.

Quote:
Even the cities that Rousseau cited, Montreal and Quebec City, could best be described as the best of a mediocre lot. In a country reknowed for beautiful cities, they wouldn't really stand out at all.
That's quite an opinion.

German cities don't really tend to be beautiful, from what I've seen of them.

Quote:
Sure, Canadian cities are on the whole far better places to live than many of the world's most beautiful cities, which are often urban museum pieces offering a good quality of life to only the richest of the rich, while most everyone else there struggles to get by.
You see, this, again, comes from a very narrow view of beauty. Something really can't be both beautiful and a crappy place to live. The beauty of Canadian cities goes far beyond what you seem to be able to perceive, with such a narrow vision.

Quote:
But please people, let's not fall in the trap of saying that Canada has *everything* and arguing naively and annoyingly with anyone that dares allude to the contrary.
Everything? No. Most things? Yes.
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  #277  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2012, 3:14 AM
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Originally Posted by jmt18325 View Post


Everything? No. Most things? Yes.
On this point we agree.
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  #278  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2012, 3:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jmt18325 View Post



You see, this, again, comes from a very narrow view of beauty. Something really can't be both beautiful and a crappy place to live. .
.
There is no direct relationship between a place's aesthetic beauty and its quality of life. Venice does not provide that great a quality of life to its residents, to use what might be the most striking example.

Millions of Italians didn't move from their country to the industrial cities of North America (and end up staying there for good) because they were pretty places.
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  #279  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2012, 3:21 AM
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Originally Posted by jmt18325 View Post


Most people? Have you done a survey? Do you think that most people would find the Vancouver skyline to be ugly? What about Toronto, as viewed from the island, on a beautiful summer day?

.
There are many notches on the spectrum between ugly and beautiful. I never said either of these places was ugly.
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  #280  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2012, 3:24 AM
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Originally Posted by jmt18325 View Post
This belief that a ) patriotism is the root of all evil, .
When did I say that patriotism was the root of all evil? I don't think it is, though like all forms of love it does have a tendency to make people see things through rose-coloured glasses.
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