Oil sands bad for Ontario

[bornagainbiking]

Mr. McGuinty says the Alberta Oilsands are bad for Ontario exports. Yes the high dollar doesn't help.
Maybe run a pipeline here to an Ontario refinery and we could see some benefit.
We get enough negative press from the other oil producing nations as it cuts or will cut into their profits. To pipe it over land, or ship it by boat or even draw it from the ocean there will be risks. Exxon Valdez, BP Gulf of Mexico etc etc
We need to be self sufficient first. That includes all of Canada. Not rely on other nations.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by bornagainbiking

...
Maybe run a pipeline here to an Ontario refinery and we could see some benefit.
...

Hell yes, that would be a great idea!!! So great in fact that it was built in 1953!!!! Then extended all the way to Montreal in 1976!! So while the pipelines ALREADY exist, it is used to bring in oil from the middle east via Portland to refineries in Montreal and Sarnia.

So while the pipeline infrastructure is there to send bitumen to Ontario and Quebec, what isn't there is the refining capacity nor the desire to do anything about it. Shell wanted to spend Billions and build a heavy oil refinery in Sarnia - and create 1000's of jobs - but the environmental concerns associated with a new refinery killed it.

Enbridge wanted to reverse the flow of it's pipelines to Montreal to allow up to 200,000 barrels a day of bitumen to be shipped to Montreal for processing and then onto Portland for export. Of course it was stopped by the environmental groups .

So really the way is already there for Ontario and Quebec to cash in bigtime on the value added end of bitumen - the processing and selling of high value products. What isn't there is the will. Of course the US gulf coast is more than willing to pitch in and accept the work that Ontario and Quebec don't want.

[haljackey]

While they 'may' be bad for Ontario's economy, it is good for Canada's economy. Ontario is in Canada, so it's kind of a mixed bag.

I too would support making Canada self-sufficient so we don't have to import oil. We have enough to sustain us as well as export surplus, so why not make it happen?

[vid]

Thunder Bay almost got a refinery in the late 1990s, but we decided that we would rather keep that toxic wasteland vacant instead of turning it into a tax revenue producing employment centre.

[bornagainbiking]

So today a bit of a backtrack about Alberta.
Just note:
The GTA has like major gridlock on ALL the highways daily, and most of it is single occupant vehicles. So I really don't see the presiding provincial government making any major immediate solutions for reducing consumption.
In Canada Ontario is the biggest energy consumer. Alberta a major producer.
So we need Alberta oil if we could get it.
Maybe we could arrange a joint appenticeship program for millwrights and trade person like welders with Alberta to find jobs, experience and training for our youth until things pick up here.
Embrace the successful or prospering province and maybe reap some benefits instead of creating more animosity and tension.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Last time I checked Alberta didn't force Ontario into a ~$17 billion deficit. McGuinty shouldn't blame the success of other provinces for Ontario's decline. If he wants to blame anyone thought, he ought to look in a mirror and piss poor tax and spend policies of his government in the last 9 years. He's just trying to deflect the political heat that's going to be coming when provincial expenditure are gonna be amputated ala Mike Harris style.

Refineries are a third rail NIMBY issue. While many Canadians would like Canada to be self-sufficient to have oil refined and sold to meet our needs first, you'd be tough pressed to find people cool with refineries near their neighbourhoods.

Canada actually has 60% fewer refineries than we did 30 years ago, the rise of the developing markets with laxer environmental protections, environmental lobby, less domestic protests are a reason why we shipping our black gold elsewhere for a profit.

[vid]

Originally Posted by bornagainbiking

Maybe we could arrange a joint appenticeship program for millwrights and trade person like welders with Alberta to find jobs, experience and training for our youth until things pick up here.

I'm pretty sure we've already done that...

[MolsonExport]

"let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Energy_Program

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

"let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark"

I always love that quote ... very popular in Texas and other oil producing parts in the US during the oil crisis of the early 70's. Bumper stickers were very popular in Colorado (where I think they were produced) and other "western" states. "Eastern bastards" was a reference to the OPEC shieks ... though I always wondered how the hell they would freeze since even in the dark it's still not that cold in the ME.

Was never uddered by a politican in Alberta. And I've never seen it on a bumper on any truck in AB, nor spoken with someone who has, yet it supposed to be the official saying of the province.