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  #1  
Old Posted May 31, 2016, 3:41 PM
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[Moncton] MH35 Project (Proposed)




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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
There is a Facebook page devoted to the MH35 project proposed for the old Moncton High School site.

https://www.facebook.com/mh35moncton/?fref=ts

Here's the URL for an interesting video by Jim Lockyer talking about the project. It includes a couple of flyby animations and some floor plans:
https://www.facebook.com/mh35moncton...8311162222544/

Here are screen captures of the floor plans from the video (hence blurry).

Level 1 - you can see how the planned library space wraps around the central courtyard of the old school on three sides. I think this shows a lot of potential. Note that the library entrance is off the parking lot, and not off the main atrium of the building. The "centre of excellence" refers to space for the performing arts, and particularly the Atlantic Ballet Company of Canada.


Level 2 - you can see the auditorium on this level, as well as adjacent studios (created from the old gymnasium) which could also be used by the Atlantic Ballet Company, or for other theatrical rehearsal spaces. I think the area marked "cultural space" could be used for the proposed modern art gallery. The main atrium is on this level and will serve the auditorium and the "cultural space". You can also see that one wing of the building on this level is proposed to be rented out to the province, presumably for office space.


Level 3 - is mostly given over to a "learning centre". I'm not entirely sure what this means, but I imagine this space could be used for a variety of cultural purposes such as small studios, or for classrooms for night courses etc.
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Originally Posted by pierremoncton View Post
New sketches for MH35:













Source: T&T - https://www.telegraphjournal.com/tim...ew-designs-old

I don't have time to give details now. Essentially, the library would be moved to the first floor, in a configuration similar to what MonctonRad suggested. Interesting that the regional library is part of the move, which hadn't been addressed before AFAIK.

Also - Facebook page with two new videos posted today: https://www.facebook.com/mh35moncton
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  #2  
Old Posted May 31, 2016, 4:00 PM
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A statement from the province about the Regional Library portion.

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The debate over moving the Moncton Public Library from its downtown location on Main Street to the former Moncton High School building continues, but it is now clear that it won't happen without the support of the city.
Basically the province is saying that while they COULD move the regional library to MHS, they probably won't do it unless the City moves their library as well.
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  #3  
Old Posted May 31, 2016, 4:07 PM
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Thanks for creating the thread josh

To maintain standard naming conventions though, I wonder if it shouldn't be renamed to something like:

[Moncton] MH35 Centre - MHS Redevelopment Project (Proposed)

Myles, what do you think??
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Old Posted May 31, 2016, 5:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeolas View Post
A statement from the province about the Regional Library portion.



Basically the province is saying that while they COULD move the regional library to MHS, they probably won't do it unless the City moves their library as well.
I do wonder what is holding the city up... Do they know of other proposals (other than U-Haul of course)? Are they just doing their due diligence even with a provincial government who seems to want to get rid of the old MHS? Actually, Mr Melanson seems a lot less worried (time wise) than Mr Collins...
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Old Posted May 31, 2016, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes View Post
How big of a lobby would you need for the theatre?
Question posed in the downtown thread. Responded to here.

That's a very good question josh

The current proposed atrium is cavernous (at least 25-30 ft high). If they went with an atrium half that height, the external facade of the MHS entrance and "tower" wouldn't be so hidden. This might be an acceptable compromise. It would be nice to see an alternate render with this proposed change........
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Old Posted Jun 1, 2016, 1:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Question posed in the downtown thread. Responded to here.

That's a very good question josh

The current proposed atrium is cavernous (at least 25-30 ft high). If they went with an atrium half that height, the external facade of the MHS entrance and "tower" wouldn't be so hidden. This might be an acceptable compromise. It would be nice to see an alternate render with this proposed change........
I was thinking the exact same things. No need to make it so big! Even if they pulled it back from the street a bit more too.
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Old Posted Jun 1, 2016, 1:39 AM
pierremoncton pierremoncton is offline
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It would be interesting to know if the public library's lease agreement prevents them from subletting. If so, the city could maintain the $1 lease and sublet to Blue Cross (or whomever) to cover part or all of the lease at MH35. I'm sure Slate would try to prevent this from happening, but space at the Blue Cross Centre has to be more valuable than at MH35, so maybe the city could even profit from this maneuver if they managed to get away with it... ?
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Old Posted Jun 1, 2016, 5:50 PM
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Looking at the image below, it occurred to me that the old MHS site could make a nifty downtown campus for Mount Allison University.



Anglophone university students in Moncton are disadvantaged by the needs of paying for room and board as well as tuition. Mt A is just a touch too far away in the winter time to be considered a commuter campus. The weather makes back and forth travel too unreliable.

A revamped MHS such as pictured above could easily fill the role of a "junior campus" for Mt A. Just think if you could take your first two years of courses without leaving home. This could be a big cost saver for anglophone Moncton students.

I wonder if anyone has ever thought of this as a possibility...........
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Old Posted Jun 1, 2016, 6:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Looking at the image below, it occurred to me that the old MHS site could make a nifty downtown campus for Mount Allison University.



Anglophone university students in Moncton are disadvantaged by the needs of paying for room and board as well as tuition. Mt A is just a touch too far away in the winter time to be considered a commuter campus. The weather makes back and forth travel too unreliable.

A revamped MHS such as pictured above could easily fill the role of a "junior campus" for Mt A. Just think if you could take your first two years of courses without leaving home. This could be a big cost saver for anglophone Moncton students.

I wonder if anyone has ever thought of this as a possibility...........
Or UNB could expand operations in Moncton like they did in Saint John. Crazier still, a new university. I like your thinking though MonctonRad.
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  #10  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2016, 1:25 AM
Patapouf26 Patapouf26 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Looking at the image below, it occurred to me that the old MHS site could make a nifty downtown campus for Mount Allison University.



Anglophone university students in Moncton are disadvantaged by the needs of paying for room and board as well as tuition. Mt A is just a touch too far away in the winter time to be considered a commuter campus. The weather makes back and forth travel too unreliable.

A revamped MHS such as pictured above could easily fill the role of a "junior campus" for Mt A. Just think if you could take your first two years of courses without leaving home. This could be a big cost saver for anglophone Moncton students.

I wonder if anyone has ever thought of this as a possibility...........
Crandall University??
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  #11  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2016, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patapouf26 View Post
Crandall University??
Nah, I want a real university, not a glorified religious high school like Crandall.......
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Old Posted Jun 2, 2016, 11:31 PM
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Dennis Cochrane, the President of the MH35 Group had a commentary on the op-ed page of the T&T today.

Takeaways from his article:

- the auditorium at MH35 would be the largest performing arts space in Atlantic Canada.
- the gymnasium space in behind the auditorium would be the new home of the Atlantic Ballet Theatre of Canada (offices, rehearsal spaces etc).
- the ABT of Canada sponsored Centre for Arts and Education would also be located in the gymnasium space too.
- MH35 is designed to be self sustaining. It will achieve this goal by renting out space in the rest of the former high school to generate income.
- this is why they want the public library to relocate. The library may pay only $1 per month in rent to the Blue Cross Centre, but they also contribute nearly $570,000 per year in maintenance fees for the common areas of the Blue Cross Centre
- it is this $570,000 that MH35 is after in order to help pay for ongoing costs for the MH35 Centre.
- the city would gain immensely in property taxes on the renovated MH35 Centre. The value of the building after renovations is estimated to be $50M. This would help offset the costs of the rental fee for the public library.
- it was insinuated that the library board is being uncooperative with MH35, dragging their feet on meeting with MH35, and not providing a list of their needs and wants in a new library space. Now that some of their concerned have been voiced, adjustments have been made in the design to accommodate these concerns (such as the expanded atrium space where the courtyard now stands).
- the proposed central atrium for the library will be over 40 ft tall.
- the atrium would provide the new library with more useable space than they currently have in their Blue Cross location.
- the architect is prepared to make further revisions to increase useable space, such as an optional loft.
- the option also exists to move the regional component of the library to the second floor, creating even more space for the city library.
- all additional costs for such revisions to the plan will be born by MH35, and not by the city or the library board. These costs ultimately will be recovered by rental payments (by the library and by other tenants as well). The annual library rental costs however will remain at $570k.
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Old Posted Jun 3, 2016, 1:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Dennis Cochrane, the President of the MH35 Group had a commentary on the op-ed page of the T&T today.

Takeaways from his article:

- the auditorium at MH35 would be the largest performing arts space in Atlantic Canada.
- the gymnasium space in behind the auditorium would be the new home of the Atlantic Ballet Theatre of Canada (offices, rehearsal spaces etc).
- the ABT of Canada sponsored Centre for Arts and Education would also be located in the gymnasium space too.
- MH35 is designed to be self sustaining. It will achieve this goal by renting out space in the rest of the former high school to generate income.
- this is why they want the public library to relocate. The library may pay only $1 per month in rent to the Blue Cross Centre, but they also contribute nearly $570,000 per year in maintenance fees for the common areas of the Blue Cross Centre
- it is this $570,000 that MH35 is after in order to help pay for ongoing costs for the MH35 Centre.
- the city would gain immensely in property taxes on the renovated MH35 Centre. The value of the building after renovations is estimated to be $50M. This would help offset the costs of the rental fee for the public library.
- it was insinuated that the library board is being uncooperative with MH35, dragging their feet on meeting with MH35, and not providing a list of their needs and wants in a new library space. Now that some of their concerned have been voiced, adjustments have been made in the design to accommodate these concerns (such as the expanded atrium space where the courtyard now stands).
- the proposed central atrium for the library will be over 40 ft tall.
- the atrium would provide the new library with more useable space than they currently have in their Blue Cross location.
- the architect is prepared to make further revisions to increase useable space, such as an optional loft.
- the option also exists to move the regional component of the library to the second floor, creating even more space for the city library.
- all additional costs for such revisions to the plan will be born by MH35, and not by the city or the library board. These costs ultimately will be recovered by rental payments (by the library and by other tenants as well). The annual library rental costs however will remain at $570k.
Well, it all seems good. What are we waiting for... Let's move quickly!

Seriously though, seems win-win-win. The library gets a better location, the old MHS is structure is ''saved'' with a very decent project and Slate gets more space to expand their building.
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  #14  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2016, 3:18 PM
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Information session for the MH35 project today from 1-8 PM at the Crossman Community Centre.

I likely won't be able to go, but it looks interesting.
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Old Posted Jun 14, 2016, 4:32 PM
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Moncton Public Library Board has published its concerns ahead of the information session, which I'm posting below in case the original document disappears. Interesting read; sorry for wall of text.

https://monctonpubliclibrary.files.w...esentation.pdf

THE MONCTON PUBLIC LIBRARY BOARD RESPONDS concerns over proposed re-location

Over the past number of months, there has been significant discussion about the potential re-location of the Moncton Public Library to support a proposed, private developer’s revitalization of the former Moncton High School. This has led to several positions being put forward - leaving the citizens of Moncton confused about the true facts on how this proposal would affect the public library and the services it provides to the citizens of Moncton. The following presentation highlights the facts as they relate to the Moncton Public Library and its synergy with ongoing downtown development and growth.

The Moncton Public Library Board

A vital part of downtown development

• The current Moncton Public Library opened its doors in 1989 as a part of a commitment to downtown revitalization. The 47,000 sq ft facility was a foundational component of an investment into downtown revitalization by the City of Moncton, and the provincial and the federal governments.

• The library welcomes about 200,000 visitors per year, and is open 7 days a week, year round. It is a unique downtown service accessible to all, free of charge.

Current facility costs to the City of Moncton

• That investment 27 years ago secured a 65-year lease for the library with a rental fee of just $1 dollar per month, plus overhead costs, for 47,000 sq. ft. The overhead costs, which would be incurred no matter where the library is located, include heat and lights, janitorial services, elevator fees, water, etc.

• As well, thanks to a sublease agreement with the province for the library regional administrative office for 11,000 sq ft, the City of Moncton receives $300,000 in rent, lowering the cost of the library facility downtown to only $230,000 per year.

Current facility costs to the City of Moncton...part 2

• Without this long-term deal (or if library space was rented as per the same
conditions of the sublease to the province), our facility in downtown Moncton today would cost the City of Moncton approximately $980,000 per year. The current arrangement represents savings of more than $750,000 per year for citizens. Over the remaining 37 years of the lease, that constitutes a savings to the municipality of more than $27 million.

• The City of Moncton has spent over $700,000 in the past few years to
completely renovate the downtown library and create an attractive, well utilized, contemporary community hub.

Concerns over current attempts to have the library relocated

• The cost increase to the City (and therefore taxpayers) would be significant.

• The library would be placed in a less functional space with structural columns in sets of two every 12 to 15 feet and walls, blocking sight lines and creating obstacles in designing accessible library spaces.

• No room to expand or grow exists in the new development. Libraries relocating today do so with a 25 to 50 year plan for growth and expansion.

• The square footage available in the development is smaller than the current space downtown. Libraries that re-locate in Canada today move to larger spaces, often doubling or tripling their previous space.

• Professional staff are estimating a 35% reduction in both seating capacity and collection size would be necessary if the library was assigned to the space identified in the proposed development due to space restrictions.

• The development shows a large portion of the library below street level. The library can only be placed at this basement level because the upper floors are not structurally made to bear the weight of the bookshelves required for a library.

• The library would be removed from the downtown core.

• There would be significantly reduced pedestrian traffic.

• Minimal lunch time foot-traffic exists at the proposed site (there are currently close to 15,000 downtown workers, many visit the library often during busy lunch hours).

• The library would no longer be part of the downtown weekend events and festivals, including the City Market on Saturdays.

• The library would no longer be part of downtown revitalization project on the Downing Street Plaza.

• A re-location of the main library could compromise any plans to open a much needed library branch in the new North West Community Centre.

Concerns over current attempts to have the Library relocated...part 2

No consultation with proposed developer


• Despite being positioned as the major anchor tenant of this proposed development, no one from the library professional staff, its board or the provincial body overseeing libraries has been consulted on the conditions that would be necessary to properly house the Moncton Library.

• According to the provincial policies of New Brunswick Public Library Service, no new space can be developed without the approval of the regional and provincial directors. These experts have not been consulted.

The business of libraries

• Most central urban libraries in Canada are located within downtown core areas. All studies show that a library is a key part of a city’s downtown strength and success. Libraries thrive in busy places.

• Libraries are more than books. In fact, the services that the Moncton Public Library provides are vital to the continued prosperity of our downtown and all our citizens (over 1,300 free programs in the past year).

• The average cost of library development today is in excess of $450 per square foot. The retrofit budget for the proposed development is not sufficient to provide the type and quality of space which already exists at the Moncton Public Library. This space is necessary for the continued delivery of the services and programming currently provided.

In conclusion...

•The Moncton Public Library Board members are entirely in favour of heritage preservation. Incorporating our history into our future is a key component of urban development.

•We encourage developers along with the City of Moncton and the province to explore options available so that existing services that are thriving (such as the Moncton Public Library) are not impacted or eroded when trying to support a proposed development.

Final thoughts...

•We believe more time and study should go into what is possible for revitalized spaces in our city and what benefits they could bring to the citizens of Moncton.

•The emotional attachment to this historic school has overshadowed important details that have serious implications for the Moncton Public Library. These details show that the proposed development is not advantageous to library users, not in terms of library services, nor in the financial cost to taxpayers.

•The Moncton Public Library is a vital, thriving, downtown public service.

What can be done?

•Visit the Moncton Public Library and see first-hand the variety of services offered in this very functional, contemporary, open space. It is a busy and dynamic community hub for people of all walks of life.

•Ask questions and send comments to your ward councillors, councillors-at-large, Mayor Arnold, and local MLAs to make your concerns known.

Last edited by JHikka; Jun 14, 2016 at 8:03 PM. Reason: Formatting
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  #16  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2016, 5:46 PM
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^^^
Wel there you have it, I knew I didn't support the relocation for a reason(s), it it looks like the relocation probably won't happen, nor should it. What really got me was that they didn't even consult the Library. They just went ahead and put it in their plans.
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Old Posted Jun 14, 2016, 7:43 PM
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Ask MH35 how many times they've met with the library board before making up your mind on this, Josh.
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  #18  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2016, 7:59 PM
pierremoncton pierremoncton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L'homard View Post
Ask MH35 how many times they've met with the library board before making up your mind on this, Josh.
Are you claiming that the board is lying?

No consultation with
proposed developer


• Despite being positioned as the
major anchor tenant of this
proposed development, no one
from the library professional staff,
its board or the provincial body
overseeing libraries has been
consulted on the conditions that
would be necessary to properly
house the Moncton Library.

• According to the provincial policies
of New Brunswick Public Library
Service, no new space can be
developed without the approval of
the regional and provincial
directors. These experts have not
been consulted.
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  #19  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2016, 8:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L'homard View Post
Ask MH35 how many times they've met with the library board before making up your mind on this, Josh.
Yes, depending on who you talk to, either the MH35 Group is proceeding on this in a cavalier manner without due consultation with the library board or the library board has been avoiding any contact with MH35 at all costs (in order to avoid appearing complicit in what they consider being a travesty).

The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

In any event, it's safe to say that MH35 and the library board do not see eye to eye on this project........
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Old Posted Jun 14, 2016, 8:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pierremoncton View Post
Are you claiming that the board is lying?
They may not be lying, but they are presenting their own version of the truth, which likely differs from MH35's version.

The lawyers will figure it out.......
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