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Old Posted Dec 3, 2008, 8:19 PM
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Honolulu: Transportation info and development

H O N O L U L U (( Transit Thread ))


photo credit to >> feloniousvindaloo@flickr

Hawaii to be FIRST STATE with electric car stations

State Rep. Kymberly Pine, Better Place founder Shai Agassi, Gov. Linda Lingle and state Rep. Gene Ward looked under the hood of a model electric car yesterday at the state Capitol.




Sources: Honolulu Advertiser and Honolulu Star Bulletin

Here's some pretty awesome news for Hawaii and very good to see given the high fuel costs and dependency on foreign oil.

Hawaii has unveiled plans to be first in the nation to roll out electric car stations statewide — a move the governor hailed as a major step toward weaning the islands off oil.

Hawaii imports foreign oil for almost 90 percent of its energy needs. One-third of that oil is used to power cars and buses on island streets.

Gov. Linda Lingle said Tuesday the program would help Hawaii meet its goal of slashing fossil fuel use 70 percent by 2030.

"This is the preferred future," Lingle said at a press conference. "Today is a part of the execution of our energy independence, and our getting off the addiction to oil."

Better Place, a Palo Alto, Calif.-based company, will build the car recharging stations and provide recharged batteries for electric cars.

The company will purchase renewable energy — such as wind power — from Hawaiian Electric Co., the state's largest utility.

Better Place plans to have the stations open for the mass market by 2011. It expects to build between 50,000 to 100,000 charge spots — in parking lots, downtown streets, and neighborhoods — across the state by early 2012.

Other communities, like the San Francisco Bay area, have announced plans to host Better Place recharging stations. But Hawaii aims to be the first to have the stations statewide. Better Place also has deals to create electric vehicle infrastructures in Israel, Denmark and Australia.

Shai Agassi, Better Place's founder and chief executive officer, said the Nissan Motor Co.-Renault SA auto alliance has agreed to make electric cars that would be recharged at the stations.

Better Place is also talking to other automakers, including the U.S. Big Three: Chrysler LLC, Ford Motor Co., and General Motors Corp. Ford is planning to accelerate the roll-out of electric vehicles as part of its restructuring plan, submitted to Congress Tuesday. The first plug-in vehicle will be a Transit Connect small van for commercial use in 2010 and a car the size of the Ford Focus compact the following year.

Ford also said it will accelerate plans for hybrid gas-electric vehicles.

Lingle said other carmakers have an incentive to follow Nissan/Renault because they would want to sell cars in the new markets Better Place is creating.

"Nobody will want to be left on the sidelines once these networks are up," Lingle said.

Agassi said the electric cars will cost the same as gasoline powered vehicles.

Over time, however, they will be cheaper to make because they will use half as many parts as cars with internal combustion engines.

Better Place picked Hawaii for the first statewide rollout in part because the islands are a contained environment, with few vehicles coming in and out, Agassi said. Better Place would need to build a bigger network across several states to serve some mainland markets.

Hawaii also has abundant renewable energy resources, including wind, solar, geothermal and wave power. This is important because Better Place won't use oil, and aims to have a "zero carbon footprint."

For example, Agassi said Better Place plans to recharge its batteries at night with power from Hawaii's wind farms. That power normally goes unused because of Hawaii's low nighttime energy needs.

Agassi sees Hawaii as an ideal place to show off Better Place technology because the state welcomes over five million tourists each year from the U.S. mainland, Japan, Canada and the rest of the world.

"If we can get them into electric cars when they rent, we do two great things," Agassi said. "One, we avoid emissions and, two, we use the opportunity to educate them, to teach them in Hawaii how it needs to be done in the rest of the world."

Lingle said the state doesn't expect to spend any money to facilitate the network. However, she said the state may need to offer tax breaks or other incentives to encourage people to buy electric vehicles when they are first offered.

From gasoline to electric

The state announced yesterday a plan with Palo Alto, Calif.-based Better Place to make Hawaii a blueprint for U.S. electric car use.

Better Place founder: Shai Agassi

Hawaii Clean Energy Initiative: The plan includes at least 3,000 electric cars on isle roads in 2010 and 50,400 electric cars in 2015.

Expected cost of Hawaii plan: $1 billion

System would include: Up to 100,000 charging stations

Shai Agassi, founder and chief executive of Better Place, first spoke with Gov. Linda Lingle this spring, proposing an ambitious outlay that would make the state a blueprint for U.S. electric car use. Yesterday, the governor announced a plan with the Palo Alto, Calif.-based company that would include up to 100,000 charging stations around Hawaii and possible state incentives for thousands of electric car buyers to be rolled out in the next several years.

"Our path, the direction of energy independence, is not based on what happens to the barrel of oil," Lingle said at a press conference announcing the plan. "We have to reach a secure and clean energy future."

In the Hawaii Clean Energy Initiative initially rolled out in January and expanded in October, the state said it expects to have at least 3,000 electric cars on isle roads in 2010 and 50,400 electric cars in 2015. Better Place plans to begin permitting for the network in the next year and introduce vehicles within 18 months and have mass-market availability by 2012.
Mass-market availability: 2012

------------------------------------------

Bike-sharing plan offers new way to get around Honolulu

Source: Honolulu Advertiser

Nguyen Le plans to launch a network of bike share stations in and around Honolulu. The system offers students, tourists and others a quick, cheap way to go short distances. It has already proved popular in Europe.


Bike sharing, popular in several European countries and in its infancy in many U.S. cities, may be coming to O'ahu next spring in a privately funded pilot program.

Nguyen Le's "Momentum B-cycle" proposal would allow people who pay for the service to hop on a bike in Manoa and leave it at a designated rack in Waikiki without worrying about where to park. Riders could also bike to and from Aloha Tower, Ala Moana Center and Downtown.

The rack locations haven't been secured yet, Le said, but several business owners have expressed interest.

"It's so early in the process right now that the bikes and racks are still being tested by the national vendor," Le said. "We should have them on order by late November or early December and we'll have contracts signed soon with businesses who want the racks at their locations."

To start, 100 bikes will be available in 10 solar-powered bike racks with locks that are released with the swipe of a bike-share pass or a credit card.

The first half-hour will be free; the next 30 minutes will cost the rider $2.

Bikes will be available 24/7.

Momentum B-cycle is targeted to launch on June 1. Le's goal is to eventually have bike racks across O'ahu and within a five-mile radius of rail transit stops.

"The intent is to make it easier for residents and tourists to connect to mass transit and key locations," Le said. "It's good for the community."

Chris Sayers, bicycle coordinator for the city Department of Transportation, said the city will monitor bike sharing because it could work well with mass transit.

"The devil is in the details," Sayers said. "Right now, the bike-share program doesn't have much to do with us, but in theory it looks really good."

------------------------------------------

<< Transportation Systems >> - By air, land, sea...

By Air

1. Honolulu International Airport: major airlines; domestic/inter-island and international.
2. Kalaeloa Airport: mainly a commuter facility used by unscheduled air taxis and general aviation.

Major (locally-based) Inter-island Airlines - excluding smaller prop jets

I. Hawaiian Air: inter-island, domestic and international service



On the Web >> Hawaiian Airlines <<

II. Mokulele Airlines: inter-island



On the Web >> Mokulele Airlines <<

III: Go! (part of Mesa Airlines): inter-island



On the Web >> GO! Airlines <<

<< Defunct >>

Aloha Airlines: filed for bankruptcy; inter-island, domestic, international



By Land

1. The Bus: Island-wide transportation which include 24 hrs. express routes.


On the Web >> The Bus <<

2. Waikiki Trolley: mainly used by tourists but serves Waikiki, Sea Life Park, Downtown, etc.


On the Web >> Waikiki Trolley <<

By Sea


1. Hawaii Superferry: inter-island transportation. One is already in use to and from Honolulu and Maui with 2nd addition in the near future.


On the Web >> Hawaii Superferry <<



2. The Boat: Honolulu's commuter ferry with service to and from Kalaeloa/Barbers Point Harbor (Western Suburb Area) and Aloha Tower in Downtown Honolulu. Two are available.

photo credit to >> HiDovey@flickr



On the Web >> The Boat <<

<< Future Transportation >>

By Train



Honolulu's Elevated Light Rail Project

Honolulu Rail Transit is a proposed 20-mile elevated rail line being developed that will connect West O‘ahu with downtown Honolulu and Ala Moana and, one day, will extend even further to Honolulu International Airport, Waikiki, UH Manoa and Kalaeloa. The system features 200-foot-long electric, steel-wheel trains capable of carrying more than 300 passengers each. Trains can carry more than 6,000 riders per hour. By 2030, up to 90,000 riders per day are expected to use rail transit.

Factoids:

Total Construction Costs*

Salt Lake Route: $5.2B

Airport Route: $5.4B

Combined Route: $6.4B

*Amount estimated after the system is built. City officials have used other construction cost figures as low as $3.9 billion for the Salt Lake route. However, that is in current dollars and does not include inflation or interest the city will have to pay.

Operation, Maintenance Annual Costs**

Salt Lake Route: $109M

Airport Route: $119M

Combined Route: $172M

**Amount the city is estimated to spend on the rail system, not including TheBus and HandiVan costs. City officials have said the operation and maintenance costs are about $60 million, but those figures also do not include inflation.

Notable Properties Possibly Affected by The Rail Transit Project

Pearl City

» Banana Patch, a multigenerational community with 10 homes and Alpha Omega Christian Fellowship Church, to be fully acquired.
» Solmirin House, a one-story plantation-style house built in 1937, to be fully acquired.

Along Dillingham Boulevard

» Boulevard Saimin Restaurant, a two-story building from the 1960s, to be partially acquired by losing its parking lot.
» Afuso House, a one-story plantation-style home built in the 1960s, with the home to be acquired.
» Higa Fourplex, a historic, two-story plantation-style home on Dillingham Boulevard developed in the 1940s before World War II, to be fully acquired.
» Texeira House, a one-story plantation-style home built in the 1940s, to be fully acquired.

Schools

» Radford High School, a small area of the parking lot to be acquired.
» Waipahu High School, some of its buildings might be displaced.
» Honolulu Community College, with a small area of land to be acquired.
» Aliamanu Elementary and Middle School, with a small area of land to be acquired.

Miscellaneous

» Kanpai Bar and Grill, 404 Ward Ave., to be fully acquired because of an unidentified hazardous material on its site.

On the Web >> Honolulu Transit <<



The projected schedule for rail transit is:

I. Completion of Final Environmental Impact Study - summer 2009
II. Groundbreaking and start of construction - late 2009
III. First segment completed - 2012
IV. Segments opened on completion - 2012 to 2017
V. Completion of 20-mile route from Kapolei to Ala Moana - 2018
VI. Extensions to Honolulu International Airport, Waikiki, UH Manoa, and Kalaeloa will be built pending future funding.

*The Honolulu INTL Airport route may be built first instead of the Salt Lake route--so stay tuned for more information.
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Old Posted Dec 3, 2008, 11:39 PM
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Nice compilation. You got a bigger size of that rail map?
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Old Posted Dec 4, 2008, 1:36 AM
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Urbanguy Urbanguy is offline
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Why yes I do! However, there is still a debate going on as to which route will be built first -> Airport vs. Salt Lake

At the moment it looks like the Airport route appears to be the most popular but it could change.



------------Here's a look at a some of the major stops------------

<< Most Recent Map with Future University Route >>







Here's what it may look like when complete.





Aiea/Pearl City in the background.
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Old Posted Dec 4, 2008, 4:43 AM
miketoronto miketoronto is offline
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Honolulu has amazing transit use. Infact the city has the highest transit usage in the USA outside of New York City. Honolulu is actually tied with some Canadian cities for the top 10 highest per capita transit ridership numbers in North America.
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Old Posted Dec 4, 2008, 5:02 PM
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^I knew that it was high but I didn't know it was that high. It certainly has quite a few options for being a metro of under a million. I just wish they'd hurry up and build the rail system already, although, i'm not a fan of it being elevated.
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Old Posted Dec 5, 2008, 6:41 AM
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/\ I haven't followed in too much detail, but will they be using 'self-guided' trains like Vancouver? Or is it just a typical LRT system, but elevated?

Depending how late into '09 the kickoff is, perhaps I'll be there...
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Old Posted Dec 5, 2008, 3:29 PM
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Everything that I've seen has likened the Honolulu plan to SkyTrain. It will actually be an elevated heavy rail system, with no grade crossings and third rail power, although I don't think they've entirely answered the question about drivers vs. driverless.

Having visited Honolulu once this April, I can say that traffic really is pretty bad. From a visitor's perspective, the route with a stops at the airport and Pearl Harbor would seem to be the most useful, but I can't say whether Salt Lake would be better for locals.
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Old Posted Dec 21, 2008, 10:28 AM
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I'm glad that Honolulu voters approved the transit plan in the last election. If ever there was an American city that was suited to rail transit its Honolulu. No other city is as densely populated or as linearly developed- concentrated into a thin strip of land between the coast and mountains. There simply is no more room for roads, so an alternative like rail makes a ton of sense.

I'll say though, that I was never particularly impressed with the bus when I lived there (2004-2006). Most of the bus stops had no information as to which routes it was serving, the website gave you no information and I did not feel the actual service was particularly efficient.
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Old Posted Dec 21, 2008, 9:32 PM
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There new train system looks to be identical to skytrain in Vancouver, in fact this picture here is a Mark 2 train car from Vancouver's system, the design on the side is our systems branding with the blue and yellow. They just photoshopped "Honolulu" on the front. The Vancouver system is capable of transporting over 25 000 people per hour if max frequencies are used. The system is fully automated and during peak hours operated 4 car trains arriving every 90 seconds.
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Old Posted Dec 21, 2008, 10:32 PM
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So has Honolulu chosen Bombardier's ALRT as its rapid transit rail technology?
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Old Posted Dec 22, 2008, 12:06 AM
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is the elevated rail a done deal? almost $6 billion cost is a huge price tag for serving 90000 riders per day. It is interesting to note that the illustrated train picture is the Vancouver system (criticized by many forumers as being expensive, but would serve about 500,000 riderships by 2014)
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Old Posted Dec 22, 2008, 12:53 AM
zivan56 zivan56 is offline
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^^ Cost wasn't an issue in Vancouver. The only reason that the latest metro line is a different technology was because the RFP basically asked for it (no shared equipment with existing system). If it wasn't a requirement, it would have been cheaper. However, the next line (Evergreen), which will start construction in a couple of years, will be Bombardier ALRT....as previous attempts to make it LRT were strongly opposed. Also, it looks likely that 2 more extensions (Millenium line to UBC and Expo line further east) will be Bombardier ALRT. So I would say they make a pretty good system.
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Old Posted Jan 8, 2009, 7:17 PM
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Here's kind of a fascinating idea being pushed around by someone living in one of Honolulu's suburbs:

Kailua pushed as model for electric vehicles



Source: Honolulu Advertiser

A longtime Windward resident wants Kailua to become the first community in the nation to integrate alternative transportation and renewable energy-using small electric vehicles, "solar orchards" and a community barn-building concept from America's past.

Tony Locricchio of Maunawili, owner of Renewable Electronics Transportation International, wants to show the nation that it can make the transition to a more cost-effective mode of transportation with the least amount of hassle and notable savings.

And do it now.

"All of this is existing technology," Locricchio said. "There is no waiting until we produce the technology down the road."

The plans call for a comprehensive system involving the use of small electric vehicles, a ferry to transport these vehicles on the freeway, a local assembly plant for these vehicles, solarization of neighborhoods, fleet vehicles for community use and quick-change stations offering battery packs that would power electric vehicles as well as homes.

The chance of getting the proposal off the ground will depend on federal funding and support, and Locricchio said he hadn't even thought of promoting the idea until Barack Obama was elected president and promised to change national energy policy.

He believes his system could pay big dividends for people who use it.

He estimates the pilot project will cost about $1.2 million.

He'll take his proposal to the Kailua Neighborhood Board meeting tonight and plans to lecture about his project at the Petersen Automotive Museum in Los Angeles on Jan. 27.

He has persuaded two U.S. senators, not from Hawai'i, to take his proposal to the Obama administration. He said he's still trying to persuade his own congressmen to support the plan.

The electric cars would be one-person vehicles that would be transported on freeways by Land Integrated Ferry Transporter that moves about 40 at a time. The problem of how to get somewhere after getting off a mass-transit line would be solved because drivers could simply drive off the transporter and to their final destination. And four of the vehicles fit in a standard parking stall, Locricchio noted.

A community fleet of vehicles could also cut costs and includes a method for the big automobile companies to pay back government for any federal bailout, he said.

General Motors, Ford and Chrysler would supply a fleet that includes SUVs, trucks and sedans for residents to use for such activities as soccer events, picnic or family outings.

Locricchio, an attorney with about 20 years of experience developing electric vehicles, wants to run a pilot project in Kailua that would include an assembly plant for the electric vehicles and quick-change battery stations

His proposal calls for "barn-raising" projects in which neighbors help each other install solar systems and earn sweat equity toward their own solar system. Neighborhoods would apply for federal funds and people would pay back the loans with money they saved by not using the public utility, Locricchio said.

There would also be "solar orchards" that could be installed along property lines, in parks, along roads and on school rooftops. The "fruit" of the orchard would be charged, 24-pound battery packs.



What do you think?
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Old Posted Jul 6, 2009, 11:48 PM
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looks like Bombardier ART is a strong candidate
Quote:
3 bidding for Oahu rail
Two train suppliers now say they won't submit bids
Special Report: Rail Transit


By Sean Hao
Advertiser Staff Writer

Two major train suppliers have pulled out of the running to provide vehicles and systems for Honolulu's planned rapid transit system.
Advertisement
Quantcast

That leaves three companies competing for the estimated $230 million city contract scheduled to be awarded next year. The vehicles and systems contract is a small part of the $5.4 billion rail project. However, the style of the rail cars chosen will determine much of the system's overall character.

Two companies that won't be providing the trains are Paris-based Alstom and Sacramento, Calif.-based Siemens Transportation Systems Inc. Both companies confirmed last week that they won't be bidding on Honolulu's project.

That probably makes the world's No. 1 train supplier, Bombardier Transportation, a favorite for the deal. So far Berlin-based Bombardier Transportation; Genoa, Italy-based Ansaldo STS and a consortium led by New York City-based Sumitomo Corporation of America are the only other competitors that have announced interest in the contract.

Siemens, which calls itself the nation's No. 1 maker of light rail vehicles, did not explain why it's not interested in the project. Alstom, which says it is No. 1 in the high- and very-high-speed train sector, said it decided not to bid on Honolulu's project based on the level of competition and the size of the city's contract.

"We took a look at this one and said, 'Yeah there's three real good competitors,' " said Charles Wo- chele, an Alstom vice president for marketing and business development. "We know them well, we compete with them. If our car fit better with the specifications and we had something that was a little closer fit, we'd go after it. But we're chasing some big projects in the Mainland right now and you can't chase them all."
choosing steel-wheel

The city's selection of steel-wheel trains was based on factors such as reliability, safety, ride quality and cost. The decision to go with steel rail also was expected to attract at least five potential vehicle vendors, which was greater than any of the other alternatives such as magnetically levitated, rubber-tire and monorail vehicles. That's because five steel-wheel train makers — Alstom, Ansaldo STS, Bombardier, Mitsubishi-Sumitomo and Siemens — responded to a request for information from potential vendors issued by the city in 2007.

Toru Hamayasu, deputy director of the Honolulu Department of Transportation Services, defended the selection of steel-wheel technology.

"Mag-lev would not have had any competition," he said in an e-mail. "And there are only two companies that manufacture monorail, with no guarantee that either would respond.

"To bid or not to bid is a vendor's decision and is based on a number of factors. What's important to the city is the opportunity for competition and the steel-on-steel technology certainly best provides that opportunity," Hamayasu said.

City Council member Gary Okino said he was disappointed that Alstom wasn't competing for Honolulu's business.

"I think it's unfortunate — I mean, the more competition the better," he said. "But if we get three solid bidders, that's good. I don't know if anybody gets more than three or four" bidders.

Companies interested in bidding on the train and systems contract were required to submit preliminary information to the city by June 5. By the end of July, the city plans to select which companies will submit formal bids. The city expects to select a supplier in early 2010 and finish the full line from East Kapolei to Ala Moana by late 2018.
a $230M contract

The contract winner will be responsible for providing vehicles along with power, control and communications systems. The contractor also will be responsible for train operations and maintenance through 2028. The vehicles portion of the contract has an estimated value of $230 million.

State procurement law prevents the city from disclosing the number and identities of companies competing for city contracts until after the contract is awarded. However, competing companies can disclose whether they plan to bid on rail projects.

Sumitomo — along with Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, KinkiSharyo International, Thales Transport & Security and Wasa Electrical Services — combined to form a team of bidders that calls itself Honolulu Rail for Growth. Bombardier and Ansaldo STS separately have confirmed intentions to supply trains for Honolulu.

"We're very interested in the project and we submitted information," said John Fink, Ansaldo STS vice president for business development. "We showed our driverless capabilities in specifically Copenhagen (Denmark) because the Copenhagen system was the first rail driverless system in Europe (in 2002)."

Reach Sean Hao at shao@honoluluadvertiser.com.

• • •

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Old Posted Jul 7, 2009, 4:32 PM
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So, what are the main differences between the 3 systems?

The Sumitomo and Bombardier systems look similar in size.
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Old Posted Jul 7, 2009, 9:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twoNeurons View Post
So, what are the main differences between the 3 systems? The Sumitomo and Bombardier systems look similar in size.
Individual photos can be deceiving, unless two of the three trains are placed in the same photo. These vehicles are built to standard sizes so they can be interchangable. What varies the most is their lengths.
For example, Vancouver Bombardier's Skytrain models. The original Mark I cars are 12m (40 ft) long. The second generation Mark II cars are 18m (60 ft) long each and come in articulated pairs. Mark I trains consists can be up to 6 cars long, Mark II up to 4 cars long.


Copenhagen Ansaldobreda's light metro trains are 39m (130 ft) long. Each train consists of three articulated cars with a total of six automated doors, holding up to 96 seated and 204 standing passengers. Therefore, each car is 13m (43 ft) long.

Dubai Mutsubshi- metro trains are 5 car trainsets that total 75m (246 ft) long. Therefore each car is 15m (49 ft) long. Each train can seat up to 400 passengers.The rolling stock is being supplied by KinkiSharyo, the same Japanese vendor that built light rail trains for DART, MBTA, NJT, ST, VMR, and VTA.
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Old Posted Jul 15, 2009, 6:05 PM
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Interesting. So, they're all variable length. Bombardier is recommending 50m (160') platforms, right? I remember reading that somewhere in the proposal. It was recommended this length because it would fit better into the community.

I'm familiar with the Bombardier trains. They use LIM which is efficient and great for hilly terrain. My guess is that Bombardier is thinking of using a 3-car articulated train when capacity increases. Start with the A-B Articulated pair 36m (120') and add a middle "C" car when capacity warrants it... increasing the train to just over 50m (doors would still fit on the platform).

I'm assuming the other two systems use traction motors? 3rd rail?
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Old Posted Jul 15, 2009, 6:25 PM
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Originally Posted by twoNeurons View Post
Interesting. So, they're all variable length. Bombardier is recommending 50m (160') platforms, right? I remember reading that somewhere in the proposal. It was recommended this length because it would fit better into the community.

I'm familiar with the Bombardier trains. They use LIM which is efficient and great for hilly terrain. My guess is that Bombardier is thinking of using a 3-car articulated train when capacity increases. Start with the A-B Articulated pair 36m (120') and add a middle "C" car when capacity warrants it... increasing the train to just over 50m (doors would still fit on the platform).

I'm assuming the other two systems use traction motors? 3rd rail?
Yes, all of them can. Wouldn't adding a 60 foot "C" car make the Bombardier train 180 feet long? A 150 feet platform would come up 30 feet short. Some of Vancouver's Skytrain stations were built 240 feet long, some weren't. With Honolulu planning just one central rail line, I would recommend 240 to 250 feet long platforms so as to not be reliant on just one train vendor. It's very difficult adding platform length to a highly used station platform later.

I would also have drivers aboard every train, even if I used automatic controls. Look at what happen recently to the D.C. metro train and Disney monorail trains running on automatic. I believe a driver can add a human backup for safety, although in the two instances I mentioned before, the human drivers didn't prevent the accidents. I believe they did help minimize the severity of the accidents.

If Honolulu transit needs to cut corners to reduce the plan's costs, much money can be saved by lowering the track guideway down to grade level where ever possible and adding safety fences. I don't believe there will be many opportunities to do so in downtown Honolulu, but I believe it is possible for several miles in western Oahu.

Another advantage Honolullu has over Vancouver is the climate. The need to completely enclose the train stations is missing. Honolulu could and should (imho) use very open elevated platforms, with just a small roof to protect passengers from rainfall. Like this DART elevated platform:




The advantage Honolulu will have over DART is there will be no catenary wires and supporting poles. The DART Park Lane elevated station above has an approximately 400 feet platform in length. Yet, it doesn't look as long or as large as these 240 feet long Skytrain platform in Vancouver, thanks to its open to the elements design.

Last edited by electricron; Jul 15, 2009 at 7:05 PM.
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  #19  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2009, 10:03 PM
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llamaorama llamaorama is online now
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Driverless ALRT cars without operator posts in the front are fun if your a passenger because you can sit up front and watch out the front window. Does anyone else kind of enjoy using those airport people mover things for the same reason?

Okay that's a stupid justification, I just had to say it though.
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  #20  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2009, 10:58 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electricron View Post
Yes, all of them can. Wouldn't adding a 60 foot "C" car make the Bombardier train 180 feet long? A 150 feet platform would come up 30 feet short. Some of Vancouver's Skytrain stations were built 240 feet long, some weren't.
The "C" cars aren't as long. I believe they're closer to 50' In addition, as long as the doors are on the platform, the train can overshoot the platform.

I'm going to stick to metres, so I don't get my units crossed.

An "A-B" Articulated train is ~35m [~115'] long (17.3m / train).
An "A-C-B" Articulated Train is about 51m [~167'] I think.

All Vancouver SkyTrain platforms are 80m [~260']. Apparently, the platforms are designed to fit at max a "5-car" train.

2x 2-articulated trains (currently used)
/=====||=====\/=====||=====\ (72m [~236'])

2-car+3-car articulated trains (future)
/=====||=====\/=====|=====|=====\ (86m? [~282'])

The 2m (~6') overhang on each side would still allow all doors to open onto the platform.

A 50m [~164'] platform would have no problem handling a 51m [~167'] train.

Quote:
With Honolulu planning just one central rail line, I would recommend 240 to 250 feet long platforms so as to not be reliant on just one train vendor. It's very difficult adding platform length to a highly used station platform later.
Realistically, I don't think that's the biggest concern. 50m and 80m platforms are pretty standard sizes. It's a good point about adding platform length. Ideally, you'd want to make sure they are engineered to be expanded later.

Quote:
I would also have drivers aboard every train, even if I used automatic controls. Look at what happen recently to the D.C. metro train and Disney monorail trains running on automatic. I believe a driver can add a human backup for safety, although in the two instances I mentioned before, the human drivers didn't prevent the accidents. I believe they did help minimize the severity of the accidents.
Scarborough, in Ontario did this. They have to pay drivers to push a button, because the union got in the way. ATC train controls have come a long way and most errors are human error, even when automatically controlled.

Fully automatic systems are in constant communication and use a moving block system. If they lose communication, the train stops. Most accidents happen when these safeguards are removed (trains being overrided and driven in manual mode)

Quote:
If Honolulu transit needs to cut corners to reduce the plan's costs, much money can be saved by lowering the track guideway down to grade level where ever possible and adding safety fences. I don't believe there will be many opportunities to do so in downtown Honolulu, but I believe it is possible for several miles in western Oahu.
I agree. running at grade where possible also affects the "it's blocking my view" scenario Nimbys raise.
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