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Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces > St. John's

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  #21  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2012, 2:54 AM
Arrakis Arrakis is offline
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Oops, apologies guys. I think I may have put this in the wrong thread again.
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  #22  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2012, 4:33 AM
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Perhaps I just haven't noticed, but Avalon doesn't seem that out of date to me. Compare it to some small town malls (Swift Current or Yorkton, SK; Vernon, BC) and you truly step back in time.

Avalon is small, and there is certainly nothing that stands out (like the glass ceiling at Calgary's Core), but it's a standard mall.
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  #23  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2012, 3:27 AM
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I would like to see something like the Trillium in Halifax.
Or at least a high-rise condo/ apartment.

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  #24  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2012, 5:21 PM
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I'm a big fan of the Trillium, but I feel that's exactly the type of development that people would be up in arms about if it were to go in downtown. For one, I'm quite sure its too tall. Secondly, I feel there would be resistance to the modern look in "historic downtown".

Its a shame really. I think a few buildings like that could really add to downtown, but there is just so much opposition in the city. With new buildings like the new Fortis and Deacon office buildings going up on the southwest side of the harbour, that area may be in position to become a little more modern. Meanwhile, the view of the classic St. John's waterfront could maintain its historic charm.
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  #25  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2012, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Copes View Post
I'm a big fan of the Trillium, but I feel that's exactly the type of development that people would be up in arms about if it were to go in downtown. For one, I'm quite sure its too tall. Secondly, I feel there would be resistance to the modern look in "historic downtown".

Its a shame really. I think a few buildings like that could really add to downtown, but there is just so much opposition in the city. With new buildings like the new Fortis and Deacon office buildings going up on the southwest side of the harbour, that area may be in position to become a little more modern. Meanwhile, the view of the classic St. John's waterfront could maintain its historic charm.
Agreed, but a building like the Trillium would not have to be downtown (it's not actually in downtown Halifax), just somewhere not too far from downtown. For me, the Trillium did not turn out quite as good as I expected (looks a little too busy and awkward), but maybe it looks better in person.
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  #26  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2012, 3:46 AM
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I do think something like that would be great downtown though. My favourite cities have a nice mix of historic and modern (London, Copenhagen, NYC, etc).

It really drives me nuts that people are so against anything modern being built downtown.
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  #27  
Old Posted May 2, 2012, 2:21 PM
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I always thought the east end of Elizabeth Ave. where the provincial govt has an office tower now would be a good place to have more office towers instead of downtown where it's always a battle to get them built. Plus, Elizabeth Ave would not be in the heritage area. Though any other tower on on Elizabeth Ave would also block someones view of Cabot Tower which seems to be the issue each time a hotel or office tower proposal comes up in this city.
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  #28  
Old Posted May 23, 2012, 3:21 PM
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Hey guys, if someone were to build a new mall, what do you think would be an ideal location and what features do you think would be good for it/ to help make it successful??

I think in the east end near Stavanger could be a good location due tot he shopper traffic that already exists

Last edited by jeddy1989; May 23, 2012 at 5:50 PM.
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  #29  
Old Posted May 23, 2012, 5:30 PM
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Originally Posted by jeddy1989 View Post
Hey guys, if someone were to build a new mall, what do you think would be an ideal location and what features do you think would be good for it/ to help make it stressful??

I think in the east end near Stavanger could be a good location due tot he shopper traffic that already exists
New southlands development. Pretty central location for access from most of the region and close to existing major highways (TCH and Route 2) and the new Route 3 extention, when completed.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2012, 4:11 PM
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If anyone were to build a new enclosed mall, Southlands would probably be the best area as its near all the highways leading into the city. They would also need to think of future expansion too if it were successful, so having an abundance of land for future expansion and parking would be smart too. I think that's the problem with Avalon Mall now. It keeps wanting to expand but has to take parking spaces to do that. They should really look into the feasibility of putting a second floor over the original Mall section that was built in the late 1960's.
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  #31  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2012, 4:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Arrakis View Post
If anyone were to build a new enclosed mall, Southlands would probably be the best area as its near all the highways leading into the city. They would also need to think of future expansion too if it were successful, so having an abundance of land for future expansion and parking would be smart too. I think that's the problem with Avalon Mall now. It keeps wanting to expand but has to take parking spaces to do that. They should really look into the feasibility of putting a second floor over the original Mall section that was built in the late 1960's.

The village mall also has a lot of room for expansion. When was the last time you ever saw that back parking lot even near full.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2012, 8:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Copes View Post
I'm a big fan of the Trillium, but I feel that's exactly the type of development that people would be up in arms about if it were to go in downtown. For one, I'm quite sure its too tall. Secondly, I feel there would be resistance to the modern look in "historic downtown".
There are a lot of strange, unreasonable opinions about urban development that have cropped up over the last few decades of suburban sprawl and underinvestment in cities. A lot of people just don't think about it much and aren't really aware of the modern possibilities out there. They know they like some old buildings and don't like some of the "new" (1980's or earlier) buildings and that is about it.

Has St. John's had many planning exercises that focus on the benefits of density and good urban design? Does the local media talk about these things?

I think the Trillium is okay but it could have been much nicer with a simpler design. The development next door has more of a lowrise scale that is closer to existing buildings in St. John's. I don't think this design is perfect by any stretch but it is an improvement over the parking lot that is there right now: http://www.thesistersites.ca/

The coloured balconies are interesting because to some degree they are tied to a local vernacular style (colourful wooden houses) but are not an overly literal interpretation. It's usually much better to build a modern building that re-interprets some interesting local features than it is to mimic old building styles. The old styles were designed for particular materials, skills, and scales. A design done in stone for a three storey commercial building will look ridiculous when reinterpreted in foam and plastic for a larger condo building.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2012, 9:17 PM
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Has St. John's had many planning exercises that focus on the benefits of density and good urban design? Does the local media talk about these things?
With the upcoming municipal development plan update there have been a few meetings and brain-storming sessions among residents about the St. John's of the future and how they in vision it. There is a sizable group of people (though I'm not sure anyone from this forum have been involved) that have mentioned density as being a key issue currently in the city, or more along the lines of a complete lack of density. On the other hand, there is a complete separate group of people who feel like increasing density in and around the downtown core will destroy its historic character. Many people who live downtown completely forget about the fact that they live in a mixed commercial, financial, and residential area. Hence any attempt to add density to one specific neighborhood, especially downtown, is often met with complete outrage. Instead we're left with a sprawling city that's on the verge of collapsing on itself. The media doesn't mention much about positive urban development, and often negatively criticizes high density downtown developments (check out CBC Newfoundland videos about The Hilton Garden Inn proposal for such an example).

The only neighborhood/area within a reasonable distance from downtown which I would consider high density (besides New Gower at Barters) would be Margarets Place, and given how it's nowhere near any street that would be able to handle the amount of traffic in that area I'd even go as far to say that was a mistake in its own. At least downtown there's close proximity to the highway.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2012, 3:50 PM
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Bell Island

http://www.vocm.com/newsarticle.asp?...3718&popular=1

Looks like the idea of a fixed structure to Bell Island has come up again. Personally, I am all for it. Bell Island is right in the middle of a very fast growing area and is just a few minutes away from St. John's. If access to the Island was made more efficient, I believe development there would start to pick up pace. I think it would be a good opportunity for the first suspension bridge in the province. A tunnel would also be cool but seems that would be more expensive.

A cost/benefit analysis would good to see considering the cost of a bridge vs. the cost of replacing the ferry. I think some cost savings could definitely be acheived by eliminating the ferries and associated fuel/upkeep costs that come with them.

Thoughts?
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  #35  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2012, 12:40 PM
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I think these areas in Mount Pearl could be Ideal for mix use development as well as highrise residential mixed... especially the large secion on the hill could be planned and some cool effects due tot he slope of the land

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  #36  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2012, 1:41 PM
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Jeddy, we do think alike. I've said before and totally agree that Mount Pearl can start developing up seeing they're running out of space. There are areas of Mount Pearl that are close to amenities and main roadways, it seems logical to develop condos; although, from a developers perspective I'm not sure what the demand would be. In addition, it'd be nice to see some condo towers in that area - create density and eye catching!
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  #37  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2012, 2:04 PM
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Mount Pearl already has a population density almost twice that of St. John's. And they do well with municipal services. We should market this as another way to show up St. John's, then council might put Canada's tallest buildings there, ha!
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  #38  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2012, 3:21 PM
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If you look at future developmwnt patterns, Mount Peal will probably become like a secont metro centre... because look at the positioning .. and DT is definatly not in the centre... if Mount Pearl is smart in the next few years they should put a plan in place for their city and Topsail road in particular especially with the new highway so close .. could be something to keep out eyes on

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  #39  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2012, 2:34 AM
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Somebody should do a render of what the waterfront would look like if the fortis 15-story glass box-fortis building retrofit and the hotel on top of atlantic place went ahead!

it would be really intersting to see the impact those projects would have had on our skyline! So if anybody is a good photoshopper with some spare time on their hands I have a job for you

EDIT- Did some snooping and found out Architype already did a render of the withdrawn fortis proposal



I actually really liked this proposal. If only the location was further west, or if they could have kept the buildings on water street. Oh well, I guess i'm a little late to the party. that debate is long over xD

Last edited by Townie709; Oct 9, 2012 at 3:23 AM.
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  #40  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2012, 9:46 AM
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I didn't mind that proposal either - but I would have preferred it as a Cabot Complex reclad than a new project.
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