Canada's Greatest Neighbourhoods

[feepa]

Like many other Great Canadian Threads, the greatest spot is where ever I currently am...

[ue]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

the plateau and mile-end in montreal is it. i could entertain an argument for toronto's west end, but not really anything else.

Even if you haven't visited anything in the West...

...and I don't see why more than one neighbourhood in Toronto is great (well West End isn't really a neighbourhood is it...more of an area) or neighbourhoods in Ottawa, Quebec City, and Halifax couldn't be considered great. Of course this paragraph (not the first line though) is moot if you're just looking for contenders for the #1 greatest Canadian neighbourhood ever, not a collection of great neighbourhoods.

[ConundrumNL]

The Rennies Mill Area of St. John's. Lots of Second Empire style homes.

[someone123]

The answer is pretty subjective. but I think there's definitely an argument to be made about the Plateau/Mile-End being in a league of its own when it comes to street life and architecture with lots of character. The analogous parts of Toronto are more modest. Toronto is a mix of houses and rowhouses where you'd find three storey flats in Montreal, and a lot of Toronto's commercial areas are very hit and miss. There's the stretch of a few nice old buildings, then a one storey brown corrugated metal box from the 70's, etc. This is in the process of changing though.

Vancouver, despite not being that much smaller than Montreal, does not have any neighbourhoods that I would personally consider "great". Vancouver is so young that outside of a small downtown area there is very little interesting older building stock. Almost everything interesting is new, but the newer buildings tend to be sterile. The problem will sort itself out in a few years though, and in terms of new construction the city is doing better than just about everywhere else.

Halifax is a city of almost-good neighbourhoods. Its big advantage is that it has a inherited a relatively large old (Victorian and older) and well-built core that can easily be turned into something great. If 5,000 people or so moved into the old parts of the South End I think it would be one of the coolest neighbourhoods in Canada. The North End needs more like 10,000 people and ideally some improved form of transit like streetcars. There have been a lot of positive changes lately but I think a lot of opportunity has been wasted because of the city's lack of ambition.

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by someone123

The answer is pretty subjective. but I think there's definitely an argument to be made about the Plateau/Mile-End being in a league of its own when it comes to street life and architecture with lots of character. The analogous parts of Toronto are more modest. Toronto is a mix of houses and rowhouses where you'd find three storey flats in Montreal, and a lot of Toronto's commercial areas are very hit and miss. There's the stretch of a few nice old buildings, then a one storey brown corrugated metal box from the 70's, etc. This is in the process of changing though.

Vancouver, despite not being that much smaller than Montreal, does not have any neighbourhoods that I would personally consider "great". Vancouver is so young that outside of a small downtown area there is very little interesting older building stock. Almost everything interesting is new, but newer buildings tend to be sterile. The problem will sort itself out in a few years though, and in terms of new construction the city is doing better than just about everywhere else.

Halifax also seems like a city of okay neighbourhoods. Its big advantage is that it has a pretty big old Victorian-era (and older) core that can easily be turned into something great. If 5,000 people or so moved into the old parts of the South End I think it would be one of the coolest neighbourhoods in Canada. The North End needs more like 10,000 people. Those numbers are not unrealistic these days.

I guess I'm heavily biased, but I think your arguments are right on the money.

[Ramako]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

the plateau and mile-end in montreal is it. i could entertain an argument for toronto's west end, but not really anything else.

Am I correct in assuming that by Toronto's "west end" you're referring collectively to the Annex, Chinatown, Kensington, Little Italy, Queen West, the Entertainment District, Parkdale, Liberty Village et al?

[mike474]

Originally Posted by someone123

The answer is pretty subjective. but I think there's definitely an argument to be made about the Plateau/Mile-End being in a league of its own when it comes to street life and architecture with lots of character. The analogous parts of Toronto are more modest. Toronto is a mix of houses and rowhouses where you'd find three storey flats in Montreal, and a lot of Toronto's commercial areas are very hit and miss. There's the stretch of a few nice old buildings, then a one storey brown corrugated metal box from the 70's, etc. This is in the process of changing though.

Vancouver, despite not being that much smaller than Montreal, does not have any neighbourhoods that I would personally consider "great". Vancouver is so young that outside of a small downtown area there is very little interesting older building stock. Almost everything interesting is new, but the newer buildings tend to be sterile. The problem will sort itself out in a few years though, and in terms of new construction the city is doing better than just about everywhere else.

Halifax is a city of almost-good neighbourhoods. Its big advantage is that it has a inherited a relatively large old (Victorian and older) and well-built core that can easily be turned into something great. If 5,000 people or so moved into the old parts of the South End I think it would be one of the coolest neighbourhoods in Canada. The North End needs more like 10,000 people and ideally some improved form of transit like streetcars. There have been a lot of positive changes lately but I think a lot of opportunity has been wasted because of the city's lack of ambition.

It's almost scary how much I agree with this post. I don't think the plateau is the best neighbourhood in Canada because I live there. I chose to live there because it is the best neighbourhood in Canada.

[mike474]

Originally Posted by ue

Even if you haven't visited anything in the West...

It doesn't matter. I've lived and been all over the west and nothing comes close.

[armorand93]

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Ramako

Am I correct in assuming that by Toronto's "west end" you're referring collectively to the Annex, Chinatown, Kensington, Little Italy, Queen West, the Entertainment District, Parkdale, Liberty Village et al?

Architecturally nothing beats Montreal (or Quebec City, for that matter). The monolithic nature of the blocks in terms of how they front the street is very appealing.

But otherwise I don't see how anything in Canada can rival the list of hoods given above in Toronto (save for Liberty Village). I absolutely adore the Plateau, don't get me wrong, but those neighbourhoods in Ramako's post are centered around distinctive commercial districts that are utterly grounded in their sense of place and identity unlike anywhere else. The Plateau is great, but it's a bit samey-samey all over. Samey-samey great, to be sure, but still, the "west end" of Toronto is great all over plus you've got the variety. In my experience the street life in those Toronto neighbourhoods is busier than what I've seen in the Plateau, except for on a Saturday night when a part of St. Laurent looks like the Entertainment District in Toronto.

It's interesting to compare Toronto and Montreal on Google Maps at an elevation of 1,000 ft. The area covered by the Plateau is about the same size as Toronto from Yonge to Roncesvalles (on my wide screen monitor, anyway), but where in Montreal you've more or less got the Plateau and Mile End, in Toronto you've got some six or seven very distinctive neighbourhoods as per Ramako's post.


Kinda off-topic: We were just in Toronto this afternoon, and it was impressive. Yonge Street was insane--it literally took a half hour to drive from the Gardiner to Bloor (yeah, we were in our car), a distance of about 3 km. That's three kilometres of full-on urban goodness right there in the form of jam-packed sidewalks. We did a few hours' walking, then got back in the car to cruise around, and bam! There was a Khalsa Festival at city hall, 100,000 Sikhs had set up shop on the square after a parade. Even at 6 pm on a Sunday Queen West was absolutely full of people all along the strip, right to Trinity-Bellwoods Park.

[softee]

Yep, downtown was a madhouse today - A MAAADHOOUUSE I SAY!!

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by rousseau

It's interesting to compare Toronto and Montreal on Google Maps at an elevation of 1,000 ft. The area covered by the Plateau is about the same size as Toronto from Yonge to Roncesvalles (on my wide screen monitor, anyway), but where in Montreal you've more or less got the Plateau and Mile End, in Toronto you've got some six or seven very distinctive neighbourhoods as per Ramako's post.

Your scale must be off, Yonge to Roncy is 5 and a half km. 5.5 km going west from Sherbrooke would put you well into the Villeray area (almost to the Trans-Canada highway), so that would be 4 different neighbourhoods I think.

[MonkeyRonin]

Anyway, my favourite neighbourhood would have to be our Kensington Market. It has a wonderfully chaotic and human-scaled energy that is otherwise completely foreign to developed western countries, yet still in an unmistakably Torontonian aesthetic. And adjacent Spadina Ave. is just classic "big city" (which provides a nice contrast to low-slung Kensington).

The most attractive neighbourhood on the other hand, probably Quebec City's old town.

[Nouvellecosse]

Why was downtown so busy. Some kind of big festival happening?

[Ramako]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Why was downtown so busy. Some kind of big festival happening?

It's always that busy; at least when the weather's nice.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Your scale must be off, Yonge to Roncy is 5 and a half km. 5.5 km going west from Sherbrooke would put you well into the Villeray area (almost to the Trans-Canada highway), so that would be 4 different neighbourhoods I think.

Yeah, I see that now. I think you'd have to include Little Italy in that swath captured by Google Maps. And another thing: where St. Laurent seems to have a sort of Queen West vibe, Saint-Denis is more devoted to French-speaking culturally Quebecois night life and entertainment, so I should be careful not to characterize the Plateau as being homogenous. That's certainly not true at all.

Still, the Plateau doesn't come close to the west side of downtown in Toronto in terms of the breadth of the variety of distinctive hoods there. More: when you look at Toronto as a whole and throw in the Danforth, Little India, the Beaches, Cabbagetown, Leslieville, and never mind Markham...cripes, the variety is astounding.

I hope this isn't verging into city v city territory, as I don't mean it to. I love Montreal, and spend time there every year as a tourist purely to enjoy the city. I just think that while the Plateau is a fantastic area with a delightful built form, the idea that it is far and away the "best" neighbourhood in Canada is being oversold here.

[ue]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Anyway, my favourite neighbourhood would have to be our Kensington Market. It has a wonderfully chaotic and human-scaled energy that is otherwise completely foreign to developed western countries, yet still in an unmistakably Torontonian aesthetic. And adjacent Spadina Ave. is just classic "big city" (which provides a nice contrast to low-slung Kensington).

The most attractive neighbourhood on the other hand, probably Quebec City's old town.

I agree. Kensington Market is easily Toronto's coolest/best neighbourhood. Tons of character.

Originally Posted by mike474

It doesn't matter. I've lived and been all over the west and nothing comes close.

I agree...to an extent. As I said in the post, if Kool was just meaning the #1 neighbourhood and not what are all of Canada's great neighbourhoods (because there is more than 1), I could definitely agree with what he is saying. Plateau, Mile End, and West Central/West End Toronto neighbourhoods are easily in a league of their own. These three (er, rather much more considering the West End isn't an actual neighbourhood but a collection of them) can fight it out for #1.

But that isn't to say there aren't great neighbourhoods elsewhere, including in Montreal and Toronto. Look at my list on the first page, I think all those neighbourhoods/strips are great. Clearly not every single one is #1, but still. Seeing as you are from Saskatoon, I'll give the example of that city. For a city as small as Saskatoon that really has a relatively short history with not much in the way of "character" in the historic sense, it has a fantastic downtown. Sure it isn't bursting with buildings from anywhere between the 18th century and the 1920s, but still. Lots of interesting shops and restaurants, decent pedestrian traffic. Is it comparable to "Mile Fin?" No way, but still great neighbourhood, especially in context.

I also think we on SSP have a strong bias towards older architecture. "They just don't make 'em like they used to" is a very popular sentiment on here (even if only indirectly stated usually). And while I tend to agree with that sentiment, there still can be "character", "coolness", and "interestingness" in modern architecture and neighbourhoods dominated by modernism. The aforementioned Downtown of Saskatoon is mostly postwar buildings, at least on the more active streets, and although it isn't gorgeous, it still has coolness. What about Vancouver's sexy new Olympic Village? Stunning modern architecture, no ugly parking lots or other urban planning failures of the postwar era. Maybe not great in a Kensington Market way, but great in a Wolseley or Highlands way. Ie, it isn't bustling with people and doesn't have awesome shops or the hottest restaurants for the food snobs, but from an architectural or planning standpoint, it does have greatness.

P.S. I do think that if Winnipeg's Exchange District cleaned up some, had way more people living there, all main levels of buildings occupied with shops/rest/bars, and surface lots developed, Western Canada would have something to compete with The Plateau or "West End."

[agrant]

Originally Posted by someone123

Vancouver, despite not being that much smaller than Montreal, does not have any neighbourhoods that I would personally consider "great". Vancouver is so young that outside of a small downtown area there is very little interesting older building stock. Almost everything interesting is new, but the newer buildings tend to be sterile. The problem will sort itself out in a few years though, and in terms of new construction the city is doing better than just about everywhere else.

Metro Vancouver is about 1.5 million people short of Montreal's total population. That to me is a pretty big gap. Anyways, I live in Kits. Just a 10 minute walk to the beach, two commercial streets with plenty of shopping and restaurants. And I wouldn't consider it a new neighbourhood, as it's been around since the early 1900s. I have no doubt there are equally great neighbourhoods throughout Canada, each having their own strengths and weaknesses. I assume many people on this forum would have old historical buildings as part of the criteria for ranking a place. That is certainly a nice attribute to have, but there are so many other things to it imo.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by agrant

Anyways, I live in Kits. Just a 10 minute walk to the beach, two commercial streets with plenty of shopping and restaurants. And I wouldn't consider it a new neighbourhood, as it's been around since the early 1900s. I have no doubt there are equally great neighbourhoods throughout Canada, each having their own strengths and weaknesses. I assume many people on this forum would have old historical buildings as part of the criteria for ranking a place. That is certainly a nice attribute to have, but there are so many other things to it imo.

I lived in Kits for a year or so. I enjoyed my time there and liked being able to go to little shops and restaurants and it is very bike-friendly. The downside is that it is not a very busy area and closes down early. It's also very expensive and is experiencing the same shift toward yuppie monoculture that has engulfed much of the city. I'm not sure if Vancouver is going to age and become a more varied city or if it's just going to become a cluster of Whole Foods/Lululemon colonies. It seems like it could go either way at this point.

From a lifestyle perspective I agree that a lot of parts of Canada are great, but parts of Montreal have a character you can't find elsewhere in this country. The same thing goes for parts of Toronto. Kits is maybe 30% like that.

[flar]

I was in Toronto on Saturday (sorry no pics ) and it was extremely busy. Part of it might have been because the Yonge subway was closed between Bloor and Union. But generally the last few times I've been to Toronto, the streets have been more crowded than ever. The city is hitting the critical mass that puts it into the big leagues.