Should Canada Bid for 2026 World Cup?

[ZeDgE]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It is already a major spectator sport here.

Exactly.

[Welkin]

Originally Posted by Acajack

They may be big population-wise but in the wider world they are not any more well known than Edmonton, Winnipeg or Calgary. Not one is suggesting hosting World Cup matches in Medicine Hat and Moose Jaw. Probably not Regina either.

And there are probably 10 or even 20 cities the size of Toronto in China that you have never heard of.

Nothing personal, but speak for yourself. There are some of us that rise above a Canada-centric view of the world and understand that there are major population centers around the world that easily dwarf the Edmonton's, Winnipeg's and Calgary's of the world both in population and importance. While they may be unknown backwaters to you, I have been very familiar with Belo Horizonte, Recife and Manus for years (I will admit that I was only vaguely familiar with Natal). The world is constantly evolving and former third world cities like Sao Paulo, Kuala Lumpur and Bangkok now rival New York or Toronto in their number of skyscrapers. Just because you are unfamiliar with other parts of the world, does not mean you should underestimate them or their importance.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Edmonton - Opening game (regardless of groups), knockout round to semifinals, Final

Nothing against Edmonton, and I actually love the look of Commonwealth, but the final would not be in any other city than Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver (in that order).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Welkin

Nothing personal, but speak for yourself. There are some of us that rise above a Canada-centric view of the world and understand that there are major population centers around the world that easily dwarf the Edmonton's, Winnipeg's and Calgary's of the world both in population and importance. While they may be unknown backwaters to you, I have been very familiar with Belo Horizonte, Recife and Manus for years (I will admit that I was only vaguely familiar with Natal). The world is constantly evolving and former third world cities like Sao Paulo, Kuala Lumpur and Bangkok now rival New York or Toronto in their number of skyscrapers. Just because you are unfamiliar with other parts of the world, does not mean you should underestimate them or their importance.

Canadian-centric? Moi? Hardly. I am not even that patriotic a Canadian.

I just think it is ridiculous to suggest that Canadian cities are in any way less attractive or interesting for hosting a WC than those in any part of the world. The current Euro is being hosted in places like Lviv, Poznan and Donetsk. No disrespect to them but these are not exactly household names outside of Slavic Europe, and I hardly doubt they are any sexier than Calgary or Winnipeg.

BTW, I will challenge you or anybody to a world geography quiz any day. So please don't make any assumptions about what I know or don't know about the wider world.

[ZeDgE]

Originally Posted by Acajack

No disrespect to them but these are not exactly household names outside of Slavic Europe, and I hardly doubt they are any sexier than Calgary or Winnipeg.

Stealth troll?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ZeDgE

Stealth troll?

Me or him?

[ZeDgE]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Me or him?

LOL! you. Just kidding around.

[rousseau]

Football (yeah, "soccer") is like air. It's elemental. It's the best team game there is by virtually any reckoning.

We North Americans mostly don't get it, though it's telling that even with the domination of basketball, baseball, American/Canadian football and hockey on the culture on this continent reflecting billions upon billions of dollars spent, football still has the largest number of participants of any high school sport in Canada or the U.S. Think about it: there are 4 million high school football players in the U.S. compared to 1 million gridiron players and 500 thousand basketball players. There are more kids playing football in Canada than hockey. The numbers are there, and they keep growing.

Why? Because it's such a great fucking game. It's the only game that really matters. But it's not to some people's taste. Fine. But please spare us the bizarre notion that North American sports are superior.

You want "fast-paced"? How about any pace, for crissake! I mean, you can't watch any North American sport for more than a minute or two before play stops and there's a commercial break. How are you supposed to really get into a game when they stop playing all the time? Not only that, but the players themselves can stop the game with a timeout. "Whaaa....whaaaa....I can't pass the ball to my teammate....stop the clock"!

What are we: children? I've been a hardcore NBA fan for most of my life, but I just can't watch it anymore. The last two minutes of the game actually take fifteen minutes to play because of the timeouts. Timeouts are idiotic. And don't get me started on TV timeouts. They're absolutely moronic, there's no other word for it. I'll never forget the look of wonder on the face of an English guy when I told him sports in North America have TV timeouts. "You mean, they actually stop the game in the stadium...so people at home can see adverts on the telly?"

The artificiality of our sports makes them mostly unwatchable to anyone else. You've got music over the loudspeakers indicating how you're supposed to respond during a given moment in the game ("oh, is there supposed to be suspense now that our team is on defense and the game is close? Thanks for letting me know, I couldn't have figured that out for myself!") and cheerleaders prancing around in case, you know, you fall asleep because the game is so freakin' boring because it's the 700th regular season match-up between these two teams and it doesn't mean anything in the final standings...or to anybody, really.

And don't get me started on hockey, which I played as a goaltender from age 3 to 15. You know why people say they can't get into it because you can't see the puck? Because you can't. All you see is grown men on skates hacking away at each other with one-sided pickaxes. Hack, hack, hack...there's so little control, so little beauty, just a lot of slashing and chopping and whacking away like lumberjacks...on skates. Canadians love the game, but the idea that the rest of the world is benighted for being mad about football when hockey is so much more "exciting" is, well...

Rant over. We don't deserve the World Cup, and we don't have the stadiums anyway. Did you see the Polish stadiums for Euro 2012? They're awesome. Ours suck. We do one thing well: hockey. It is what it is.

[bulliver]

^ The high levels of high-school participation in soccer can probably be largely attributed to the fact that the equipment cost is practically zero. Shoes and a ball are really all you need. Many parents cannot afford football or hockey equipment.

Your points about television adverts being neauseating are valid, but they are tertiary complaints, and don't really speak to one's like or dislike of the actual gameplay.

[ZeDgE]

Originally Posted by bulliver

^ The high levels of high-school participation in soccer can probably be largely attributed to the fact that the equipment cost is practically zero. Shoes and a ball are really all you need. Many parents cannot afford football or hockey equipment.

There is a little more to it than that but I somewhat agree, its not just High School, its all levels of soccer, youth and adult, leagues, house, etc. And $300 Adidas F zero mi coach shoes and $100 shin pads say otherwise.. on top of $600 registration fees and $400 tech training fees.

The thing is soccer is a game you can play almost anywhere with next to nothing but a ball. Having a kid growing up playing soccer I see it today, its all kids want to do. Any free time its off to the field to kick the ball around.. 20 kids? No problem. Hockey is nothing like this, I can't even remember the last time I saw kids out playing street hockey. When I was young (long time ago) this is all you saw, I never knew anyone who played soccer. If not hockey it was softball or baseball. Anecdotal maybe.. But its so different now, and its not going to fade out, its only continues to grow.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It is already a major spectator sport in North America.

how do you figure that?!

because people watch the world cup for a few weeks every 4 years?

what are people watching to justify your statement?.....MLS?.....nope....EPL?....two games a week on saturday morning with rating similar to poker?....that's considered major?

i dont see any other leagues on non specialty channels in either country.

soccer is still a spectator fringe sport.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by bulliver

^ The high levels of high-school participation in soccer can probably be largely attributed to the fact that the equipment cost is practically zero. Shoes and a ball are really all you need. Many parents cannot afford football or hockey equipment.
.

the high levels of participation are based on the fact that it is treated as a babysitting service for swaths of suburbanites....participation drops off radically once it becomes competitive....here in manitoba they don't even keep score until kids are 12 years old!....try and teach the fundamentals of the sport and parents lose it....the mid game picnic is more important than the game.

it isn't treated as a sport, it is a pastime....

[ZeDgE]

Originally Posted by trueviking

how do you figure that?!

because people watch the world cup for a few weeks every 4 years?

You realize people watch soccer other than world cup right? All the leagues in Europe, South America, MLS here. Three MLS teams in Canada now which draw 20,000 plus a game. Some big games 50,000 plus. C'mon..

Originally Posted by trueviking

it isn't treated as a sport, it is a pastime....

LOL.. speaking from experience here and seeing parents rage at refs, get in fights with other parents.. NO.

The bigger issue with competitive level play is there is bottleneck and no where for players to go and take their game further. Unless they go down to a college in the US or over to Europe. Mainly because of the apathy in this country to anything other than hockey.. Thankfully with three MLS teams we now have somewhere for home grown players to make their way up the ranks, its a good start.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by ZeDgE

You realize people watch soccer other than world cup right? All the leagues in Europe, South America, MLS here. Three MLS teams in Canada now which draw 20,000 plus a game. Some big games 50,000 plus. C'mon..

3 professional teams in an entire country (4 if you include edmonton) of 33 million people is considered a 'major spectator sport'?....really?

where are people watching all these other leagues?...what channel is that on?

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by ZeDgE

LOL.. speaking from experience here and seeing parents rage at refs, get in fights with other parents.. NO.

well, its different in manitoba....i dont see parents raging at refs when you dont keep score until you are 12....imagine if they didnt keep score in hockey until that age?

[trueviking]

canadian dwayne derosario won the MLS MVP last year....how many canadians can tell you that?......000001%....maybe.

how many canadians can name the three canadian MLS teams?

how many canadians know that canada has a huge world cup qualifier in toronto tomorrow?

how many canadians even know that canada has a national soccer team?...or can name a single player?

soccer is a fringe spectator sport.

[ZeDgE]

Originally Posted by trueviking

3 professional teams in an entire country (4 if you include edmonton) of 33 million people is considered a 'major spectator sport'?....really?

where are people watching all these other leagues?...what channel is that on?

Sportsnet, TSN, GOLTV. There is a alot more coverage of soccer on TV these days. Its not hard to see it. All the Euro games are being broadcast right now. As are the olympic and world cup qualifying games, along with the MLS teams. You obviously do not watch any soccer or pay any attention to it if you do not know this. Someone must be watching for them to be broadcasting so much.

Originally Posted by trueviking

canadian dwayne derosario won the MLS MVP last year....how many canadians can tell you that?......000001%....maybe.

how many canadians can name the three canadian MLS teams?

how many canadians know that canada has a huge world cup qualifier in toronto tomorrow?

how many canadians even know that canada has a national soccer team?...or can name a single player?

soccer is a fringe spectator sport.

Anyone who knows anything about soccer. Did we not set attendance records for the U20 world cup? If Canada were to make it to the world cup again this country would explode in support for our national team.

Fringe spectator sport my ass.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_FIFA_U-20_World_Cup

On 28 June 2007, two days before the inaugural match, it was reported that 950,000 tickets had been sold,[2] making it the largest single-sport event ever taking place in the country,and on 3 July, the tournament organisers sold the one millionth ticket.[3]

[Nicko999]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Soccer-specific or not, grass surface or not, they are still too small for a World Cup.

Absolutely, just like any other stadium. Canada really sucks when it comes to stadiums...

The big O is the biggest in the country with capacity of 66k.

2010 World Cup final attendance: 84k
2006 World Cup final attendance: 69k
2002 World Cup final attendance: 69k
1998 World Cup final attendance: 75k
1994 World Cup final attendance: 94k


Sorry but I don't see the World Cup in Canada anytime soon, our stadiums are way too crappy and small.

[artvandelay]

Originally Posted by rousseau

We North Americans mostly don't get it, though it's telling that even with the domination of basketball, baseball, American/Canadian football and hockey on the culture on this continent reflecting billions upon billions of dollars spent, football still has the largest number of participants of any high school sport in Canada or the U.S. Think about it: there are 4 million high school football players in the U.S. compared to 1 million gridiron players and 500 thousand basketball players. There are more kids playing football in Canada than hockey. The numbers are there, and they keep growing.

This doesn't neccesarily translate into fans of pro soccer though. I played soccer for 6 years growing up. My parents just put me in it at first, but I really enjoyed playing and still do in an adult summer rec league. I just find it incredibly boring to watch. Out of the competitive players on my teams growing up, I'd say that only 20-30% of them followed professional soccer (EPL, Champions league), and most of these kids came from families who immigrated from the UK or Europe. I just can't see soccer becoming one of the major draws commerically in this part of the world.

Originally Posted by Acajack

It is already a major spectator sport in North America.

Is it? Perhaps if you're considering Mexico - I should have said the U.S. and Canada.

The only soccer that gets decent ratings here is the World Cup Finals. MLS games are regularly trounced by the NHL, CFL, NFL, PGA, mid week Blue Jays games, and even curling. I believe that ratings in the States are even more bleak.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by ZeDgE

Sportsnet, TSN, GOLTV. There is a alot more coverage of soccer on TV these days. Its not hard to see it. All the Euro games are being broadcast right now. As are the olympic and world cup qualifying games, along with the MLS teams. You obviously do not watch any soccer or pay any attention to it if you do not know this. Someone must be watching for them to be broadcasting so much.

Anyone who knows anything about soccer. Did we not set attendance records for the U20 world cup? If Canada were to make it to the world cup again this country would explode in support for our national team.

Fringe spectator sport my ass.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_FIFA_U-20_World_Cup

i can assure you that i watch more soccer than 99% of the people in canada.....maybe we just have different definitions of 'major spectator sport'

TSN airs maybe 10 soccer games a year....sportsnet has two EPL games a week with low ratings.....GOLTV, sportsnet world and other specialty channels have minuscule viewership.

i guess when we are the only country in the world outside of vatican city that doesnt have a pro soccer league i find it difficult to consider the sport 'major' in any way.....three teams is laughable.....how can anyone say 3 teams is evidence that a sport is 'major'

yes we watch world cup and euro's...and when a major tournament is held once in a lifetime people will go watch....but that does not make it major...it doesnt even make it mainstream.

do you realize what the ratings are for soccer on tv?....80-130k viewers on average for mls (similar for EPL)...thats 1/10th nhl, 1/4 figure skating, 1/5th golf, 1/4 nascar, 1/2 basketball, 1/8 CFL and NFL, 1/4 MLB, 1/4 curling...i could go on and on.

i would like to know what you are comparing it to to be considered major?....compared to its popularity in every single other country in the world?......compared to the popularity of dozens of other sports in canada?



a random weekend ratings snippet:

1. CFL, Blue Bombers at Tiger-Cats, Saturday, TSN: 858,000

2. CFL, Roughriders at Alouettes, Friday, TSN: 853,000

3. CFL, Stampeders at Lions, Saturday, TSN: 795,000

4. MLB, Rays at Blue Jays, Sunday, Sportsnets: 760,000

5. CFL, Argonauts at Eskimos, Friday, TSN: 649,000

6. MLB, Rays at Blue Jays, Saturday, Sportsnet: 493,000

7. Auto racing, NASCAR Sprint Cup, Sunday, TSN: 448,000

8. MLB, Rays at Blue Jays, Friday, Sportsnet: 446,000*

9. PGA, Bridgestone Invitational final round, Sunday, Global/CBS: 339,000

10. NFL, Bengals vs. Cowboys, Sunday, TSN: 305,000**

11. PGA, Bridgestone Invitational third round, Saturday, Global/CBS: 255,000

12. Auto racing, NASCAR Nationwide, Satuday, TSN: 182,000

13. MLB, Red Sox at Yankees, Sundady, TSN2: 164,000

14. MLS, Chivas at Toronto FC, Saturday, CBC: 134,000