HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2012, 6:36 PM
vanman vanman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 4,234
Transit oriented development in Canada

I'm surprised this subject hasn't been touched on more here given the price of gas these days:

Quote:
Originally Posted by M II A II R II K View Post
Transit-oriented buildings fetch higher rents


Jun. 11 2012

By FRANCES BULA




Quote:
Office vacancies are creeping up in buildings that are sometimes only a few crucial blocks away from a transit site. And the vacancy rates are even grimmer for many older business parks that were built kilometres from transit at a time when it seemed savvy to construct whole campuses on cheap land far from central business districts. “What we are hearing from tenants most often these days is that priority one is access to transit and it can’t even be a walk down the street,” says Brett Miller, president of Jones Lang Lasalle Real Estate Services in Canada.

- That was a priority for Vancity Credit Union when it built its new head office in 1995, a unique building where the SkyTrain literally runs right through the building. “We wanted to be on rapid transit and our stats show our staff use transit now 50 per cent more than the average for office workers,” said Jeremy Trigg, Vancity’s director of facilities and environmental management. It’s also a key factor for the giant engineering-consulting firm Fluor Canada, which has hung onto its downtown locations in Vancouver. “We felt it was the most efficient situation for our company,” said vice-president Vasee Navaratnam. A just-completed survey of the company’s 800 employees, who are spread out in three buildings near the Burrard SkyTrain station in downtown Vancouver, showed that 65 per cent arrive by transit.

- But Mr. Miller’s company decided to test the whole thesis in a way that went beyond anecdote. Jones Lang Lasalle has published two reports now, one at the beginning of this month, looking at the importance of transit in the Vancouver market. The latest of their “rapid transit office index” reports concluded that tenants are willing to pay considerably more to get into a similar building that’s closer to transit. The statistics-stuffed report concluded that tenants will pay a 22-per-cent premium in Vancouver, Surrey and Burnaby, three of the largest office markets, to be within 500 metres of a transit station. As well, vacancy rates for buildings outside that 500-metre range can go up to 25 per cent higher than a transit-oriented building in the same suburb.

- The situation is worse for some of the older business parks in suburbs without even a hint of reasonable bus transportation. “Richmond by far and away is our worst performing office market,” says Darrell Hurst, a commercial broker at Avison Young who handles Station Tower and other properties. Its business parks on the east side, far from the new Canada Line, are older and without some of the amenities – basketball courts or multiple restaurants – that newer ones have. And they are just plain hard to get to. Both Microsoft and BC Lottery Corp. moved out of Richmond in the past five years and into Vancouver. Mr. Hurst said some business parks are trying to grapple with the transportation issue by providing their own shuttles to the nearest transit station.

Read More:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...rticle4248615/

The Skytrain travels underneath Vancity Credit Union headquarters in Vancouver. June 5, 2012. (Jeff Vinnick/Jeff Vinnick/The Globe and Mail)

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2012, 6:37 PM
Coldrsx's Avatar
Coldrsx Coldrsx is offline
Community Guy
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 40,012
... and proximity to transit is only going to become more lucrative as years go on. Why own a car if you don't really need one? The savings could be the difference between a 1bdrm and a 2.
__________________
"The destructive effects of automobiles are much less a cause than a symptom of our incompetence at city building" - Jane Jacobs 1961ish

Wake me up when I can see skyscrapers
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2012, 11:31 PM
vanman vanman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 4,234
It is becoming an obvious choice, for first time buyers especially, to choose a condo close to transit.

Anyway Vancouver has succeeded in creating many high density, transit oriented "urban villages" but the missing component has always been the lack of office space in these areas with a few exceptions. It seems that now, finally demand is growing for commercial space, and the low vancancy rates and high lease rates are proof of this. As more office space is built these area will truly become live/work, reducing commute times and increasing quality of life.

Examples of skytrain oriented commercial space in metro Vancouver u/c:

Metrotower 3 (Burnaby)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
Brewery District (NW)




Merchant Square (NW)



Marine Drive Gateway (south Vancouver)



Anyways I created this thread so anyone could contribute examples of transit oriented development, new or existing, from their cities, so please feel free to participate!

Last edited by vanman; Jun 14, 2012 at 11:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 12:57 AM
MTLskyline's Avatar
MTLskyline MTLskyline is offline
The good old days are now
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,748
I imagine that the towers surrounding the Longueuil metro station were among some of the earliest examples of transited oriented development in Canada. Some of the buildings near the Metro are connected via skywalk.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Longueuil_skyline.jpg


http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationP...il_Quebec.html
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 2:39 AM
Rico Rommheim's Avatar
Rico Rommheim Rico Rommheim is online now
Language Profs hate me!
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: City of Bagels
Posts: 10,451
NOw just replace these skywalks with tunnels and the good people of longueuil won't ever have to actually gaze upon their homes!
__________________
Alarm Force is listed on the TSX
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 3:04 AM
WhipperSnapper WhipperSnapper is offline
Master of the Universe
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Secret
Posts: 9,074
I doubt it would work in the GTA. Any premium would be lost to building at a higher density. I guess Vaughan will be the real test.

BTW, Metrotower 3 is ridiculously skinny.
__________________
Excavation/shoring of a multi-level pit is stage of construction. No one in their right mind would pay all this money if the plan wasn't to fill it immediately.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 3:34 AM
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
Innsertnamehere Innsertnamehere is offline
Insertoronto
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,621
One could argue that the entirety of NYCC is subway related development..
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 3:38 AM
Locked In's Avatar
Locked In Locked In is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,791
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post

BTW, Metrotower 3 is ridiculously skinny.
Floorplates will be 16,200 sq ft apparently..
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 4:05 AM
trueviking's Avatar
trueviking trueviking is offline
surely you agree with me
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: winnipeg
Posts: 9,507
winnipeg's first TOD....decent considering that our T is only 3km long at this point.

construction to start soon.









http://speakupwinnipeg.com/ourwinnip...t-rouge-yards/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 12:18 PM
WhipperSnapper WhipperSnapper is offline
Master of the Universe
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Secret
Posts: 9,074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
One could argue that the entirety of NYCC is subway related development..
I didn't want to open that can of worms. While NYCC is successful, almost every other suburban employment centre backed by transit is not. Scarborough Centre has pretty glass buildings sitting empty for years. The last thing we need is for this to devolve into a tax debate.
__________________
Excavation/shoring of a multi-level pit is stage of construction. No one in their right mind would pay all this money if the plan wasn't to fill it immediately.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 12:52 PM
The_Architect's Avatar
The_Architect The_Architect is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 3,186
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
I didn't want to open that can of worms. While NYCC is successful, almost every other suburban employment centre backed by transit is not. Scarborough Centre has pretty glass buildings sitting empty for years. The last thing we need is for this to devolve into a tax debate.
Yonge-Eglinton?
__________________
Hope is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of our greatest strength, and our greatest weakness.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 1:49 PM
LeftCoaster's Avatar
LeftCoaster LeftCoaster is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 7,233
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
BTW, Metrotower 3 is ridiculously skinny.
Maybe it looks like it in that picture, but it has a GBA of 400,000sf over 25 floors leading to a roughly 16,000sf floorplate. I don't know too many who would consider a 16k sf floorplate in the suburbs to be ridiculiously skinny. At that size it wouldn't even look out of place in downtown Toronto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
winnipeg's first TOD....decent considering that our T is only 3km long at this point.

construction to start soon.
Sorry for the ignorance but I haven't really heard much about Winnipeg's BRT. Can you post some info or a link?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2012, 4:34 AM
WhipperSnapper WhipperSnapper is offline
Master of the Universe
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Secret
Posts: 9,074
I disagree. Anything under 20k is quite skinny by GTA standards particularly at that height. Well, 25 storeys is unheard of in the 905 with the standard 905 building being about 6 storeys and 150,000 square feet. Meadowvale Corporate Centre is the the tallest in recent memory at 10 storeys and 250k.
__________________
Excavation/shoring of a multi-level pit is stage of construction. No one in their right mind would pay all this money if the plan wasn't to fill it immediately.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2012, 1:45 PM
dleung dleung is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,879
Metrotower 3 would have looked alright if they didn't try to imitate Metrotower 1 & 2 for half of its bi-polar facade.

The skinniest office tower in the country will likely be the MNP tower, at 36 stories and 7500sf floorplates
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2012, 11:41 PM
Metro-One's Avatar
Metro-One Metro-One is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Japan
Posts: 8,838
Here are some quick, bad pics of the transit orientated development at New Westminster skytrain station. With all the shops opening up now there is a lot more activity. It is still not fully complete though.

Here you can see the train guideway going into the complex.




Below station level



And station level



While it does have some problems, I overall like this development and now often use the safeway when I am traveling through to quickly get some groceries.

Pics are my own:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/

Cheers
__________________
Bridging the Gap
Check out my video production website at: http://www.hailstorm-media.com
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2012, 12:37 AM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is online now
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 14,760
I like the design of the New West station. There's a huge difference between the convenience of having a store you need right there and having the store in a mall separated from the station by a giant parking lot. Brentwood and Lougheed are like this because the malls pre-date the station. Brentwood's getting a big development though and hopefully Lougheed will too.
__________________
flickr
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2012, 3:50 AM
SpongeG's Avatar
SpongeG SpongeG is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Coquitlam/Rainbow Lake
Posts: 26,215
Lougheed us, I saw renders it shows 8 towers going around the mall, with some mixed use, I think they will finish off brentwood first though
__________________
belowitall
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #18  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2012, 4:23 AM
trueviking's Avatar
trueviking trueviking is offline
surely you agree with me
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: winnipeg
Posts: 9,507
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
Sorry for the ignorance but I haven't really heard much about Winnipeg's BRT. Can you post some info or a link?
dont be sorry...its easy to miss....it just opened and its puny....its a dedicated roadway on an old rail line.

the stations are nice but the line is just a start....the next phase is to connect to the U of M and the new stadium....its supposed to already have been under construction but our mayor is an idiot.

http://winnipegtransit.com/en/southw...itway/stations

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opi...144186285.html
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #19  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2012, 4:34 AM
logan5's Avatar
logan5 logan5 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Mt.Pleasant
Posts: 2,177
Surrey is trying to establish itself with TOD and touting itself as a future rival of Vancouver, but Richmond and Burnaby are in Berzerk mode right now. Burnaby is in an especially strong position with its proximity to Vancouver and a whopping 11 Skytrain stations, 4 strong town centres - even Edmonds is pretty good, with a lot of potential to create a Commercial Drive St. vibe on Edmonds St., north of Kingsway. With this huge upswing in population around the Skytrain stations should come demand for more job space, especially around Metrotown. Metrotown is positioned right in the middle of the present and future Skytrain network, making it a fast destination for most people in Metro Van.

I'm picking on Surrey here but Richmond and Burnaby are quickly pulling away. I guess that's why so many want more Skytrain in Surrey.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #20  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2012, 3:49 PM
O-tacular's Avatar
O-tacular O-tacular is offline
It's PEOPLE!!!!!
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Calgary
Posts: 6,094
Some pics of Brentwood TOD in Calgary. The two taller towers are the first phase of University city. Though I think sales have already begun on tower 3.





__________________
Elite latte lifter, supporter of swanky bridges
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 5:18 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.