America's Most Tolerant Cities

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Doady

I tolerate gay people and coloured people the same way I tolerate the extreme heat and humidity this summer. They are unpleasant but I have learned to endure them and not have them bother me too much. Because that's the way I am. I am an extremely tolerant person. And I am glad to see that so many people in the US are tolerant like me.

oh yeah? sometimes i dance with the "coloureds," (next to the gay "coloureds" who get all the chicks ) and i fucking like it. it's all fucking hott and sweaty in there, and my great great grey-shirt grandaddy knows it. what do you think of that? you guys could be friends.

[vid]

I really hope Doady was being sarcastic.

[CyberEric]

I thought the term "tolerance" had been put to bed years ago and people were saying "acceptance."

The list is utter crap.

[cabasse]

i too dislike the use of the word tolerant when what is really meant is the word accepting.

why don't we get back to what's really important, and that's that atlanta is more "tolerant" than pittsburgh, minneapolis, houston and nyc.

[jd3189]

Originally Posted by vid

I really hope Doady was being sarcastic.

Even if he was, what he just showed was the opinion of many people in the US. Sure a lot Caucasians are okay with Africans Americans, but they wouldn't like to live by the "ghetto black folks" every day. Since this country is also majority religious, most of the progressive churches will be "tolerant" of gays but will always believe that homosexuality is sinful because the Bible tells them so.

Originally Posted by cabasse

why don't we get back to what's really important, and that's that atlanta is more "tolerant" than pittsburgh, minneapolis, houston and nyc.

Atlanta today isn't the same racist town it was 50 years ago. And being liberal doesn't always mean tolerance.

[Brandon716]

If there ever was a flawed list, this would be it. I mean who knew Elmira was just SO much more refined than Buffalo?

[Doady]

Originally Posted by jd3189

Sure a lot Caucasians are okay with Africans Americans, but they wouldn't like to live by the "ghetto black folks" every day. Since this country is also majority religious, most of the progressive churches will be "tolerant" of gays but will always believe that homosexuality is sinful because the Bible tells them so.

Exactly, you don't actually have to like something to "tolerate" it. The term "tolerance" also implies a certain balance of power: the people who are tolerant have control over the people who are being tolerated. The term "tolerance" implies inequality, not equality.

[Brandon716]

Originally Posted by jd3189

Atlanta today isn't the same racist town it was 50 years ago. And being liberal doesn't always mean tolerance.

I'd wager to say no town in America is the same today as it was 50 years ago. Even in New York City the gay bars were getting frequented by police right up until Stonewall with plenty of intimidation, discrimination, and fake arrests meant to scare the community. That kind of open intimidation from police is unheard of today, and if attempted will get huge media scrutiny and attention, even in smaller towns.

The difference is the pace of acceleration, some places lead, others still follow.

And it may be true that not every "liberal" is tolerant, but its a safe assumption to know that most liberals are, and most conservatives prefer tradition. Its in the definition of the words, liberalism is based on progressivism, change, acceptance. Conservatism is based on tradition, rejection of alternatives, and is defined by mere tolerance if people are tolerant to begin with.

What I think people are forgetting is that its still possible to be a "liberal" Republican, even if they have no say in the modern party, and there are plenty of "conservative" Democrats still around.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Arizona is a very tolerant place!

Maybe, maybe not. Could be that people here (including a number of business leaders and organizations) are sick of the crap coming out of Governor Skeletor's mouth as well as the GOP-run legislature (and to a lesser extent, Sheriff Arpaio) on a near-daily basis.

We're not all like that, but they sure do a hell of a job of making the rest of us look like stone-aged twats.

[hauntedheadnc]

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G

IMO, if you're going to try to quantify tolerance, you have to look at the on-the-ground reality. State laws place an upper limit on just how tolerant certain cities can be—at least when it comes to the issue of homosexuality. It doesn't matter how liberal Salt Lake City might be: The fact is, if you live there, and you are gay, you have none of the marriage/marriage-like rights enjoyed by residents of, say, Boston or New York City or other cities in states with more enlightened policies because Utah is one of the most homophobic states in the country.

That's the fault of the state, not the city. For instance, North Carolina recently passed an amendment to its state constitution that is a grand "fuck you" to the state's LGBT population. It forbids any state recognition of any relationship other than the marriage of a man and a woman -- not even heterosexual common-law marriage.

In response, there was an angry midnight march through the streets of downtown Asheville, a redoubling of the efforts of a city-based pro-gay-marriage outfit called the "We Do Campaign," and the city of Asheville offered the state a smile and a slap across the face, as it will continue to offer same-sex partner benefits and has more or less dared the state to try and stop it.

And that is to say nothing of the tolerance here in other venues, including religious tolerance. This is the city, after all, where the local witch covens -- of which there are many -- chained themselves to a magnolia tree next to city hall to keep a developer from cutting it down to make way for a condo tower until their court case to stop him wove its way through the system. A case that they won, and which resulted in a lovely 150-year-old tree that can still be seen and enjoyed today, and where you will still occasionally find written wiccan prayers and blessings tied to the branches.

Even if the state has stuck its head up its ass, that still sounds like a pretty tolerant city to me.

[downtownpdx]

Originally Posted by Doady

I tolerate gay people and coloured people the same way I tolerate the extreme heat and humidity this summer. They are unpleasant but I have learned to endure them and not have them bother me too much. Because that's the way I am. I am an extremely tolerant person. And I am glad to see that so many people in the US are tolerant like me.

Thank You - I was wondering if someone was else thinking the same thing. That word 'tolerate' has always bothered me. There are so many ridiculous anologies ... I 'tolerate' your sexual orientation like I tolerate a flu shot ... hahahaha

[Xing]

That map is a mess.

[599GTO]

Ridiculous.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G

IMO, if you're going to try to quantify tolerance, you have to look at the on-the-ground reality. State laws place an upper limit on just how tolerant certain cities can be—at least when it comes to the issue of homosexuality. It doesn't matter how liberal Salt Lake City might be: The fact is, if you live there, and you are gay, you have none of the marriage/marriage-like rights enjoyed by residents of, say, Boston or New York City or other cities in states with more enlightened policies because Utah is one of the most homophobic states in the country.

So I guess three years ago residents of NYC and Boston were just as intolerant as residents of SLC? I think you are being a little too judgemental of people in states that haven't yet adjusted to these more tolerant ideas. Yes, certain state legislatures have started the ball rolling, but that doesn't mean that the population is automatically more enlightened than in the other 42states. That's absurd...it isn't THAT black and white.

[Omaharocks]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

So I guess three years ago residents of NYC and Boston were just as intolerant as residents of SLC? I think you are being a little too judgemental of people in states that haven't yet adjusted to these more tolerant ideas. Yes, certain state legislatures have started the ball rolling, but that doesn't mean that the population is automatically more enlightened than in the other 42states. That's absurd...it isn't THAT black and white.

Agreed. It also comes back to this whole notion of where the arbitrary borders are drawn around both cities, metropolitan areas, and states. People are getting caught up in the idea of places like Massachusetts being more tolerant than other states, but it is merely more urbanized. If I drew a fairly tight line around Salt Lake City or Austin and called them states, they would become some of the most liberal "states" in the country. Just because your state boundaries are drawn more tightly around your metropolitan areas, does not make you more tolerant. I will add that clearly there are regions more tolerant than others, but it just isn't THAT simple.

[urbanactivist]

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G

I don't care what proportion of the population is gay: a metropolis is not gay-tolerant if it's in a state that denies gay people marriage or at least civil union/domestic partnership rights. Asinine.

I'm really saddened to see comments like this one.

What people on the coasts seem to forget... equality is on-going, and every city has it's issues. Just how "tolerant" is New York if it's still enacting policies like Stop-and-Frisk? If a city like Houston... 2 million people in Texas... can elect an openly-gay mayor whom has raised 3 adopted kids with her partner (twice now... the first election was not a fluke), how "horrible" can it possibly be? If a city like San Antonio can pass domestic partner benefits, is it really that bad?

The relationship between states and major cities always presents conflict. The city of Houston appoints transgender judges, has special police and municipal sensitivity and equality training, and is working hard to grant domestic partner benefits again (it was enacted in 2001, only to be revoked by city-wide referendum).

What none of us need are continued put-downs like the one above. Equality is a fight that we all must win, and that requires shared work to overcome every loss, and shared celebration at every progression... no matter how big or small.

[Jonboy1983]

Let's see... I saw Pittsburgh has an index of 0.2 to 0.4. Is that an improvement?

I know the share of immigrants or foreign born residents is picking up, especially for those of Indian or Eastern/Southeastern Asia origin. As for gays, I'm not sure. For integration between populations of different backgrounds in race and/or religion, I doubt it. It's still very segregated. For starters, only 12% of the population is black. Maybe as immigration increases, this index should improve...

[Brandon716]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

So I guess three years ago residents of NYC and Boston were just as intolerant as residents of SLC? I think you are being a little too judgemental of people in states that haven't yet adjusted to these more tolerant ideas. Yes, certain state legislatures have started the ball rolling, but that doesn't mean that the population is automatically more enlightened than in the other 42states. That's absurd...it isn't THAT black and white.

On the other side of the token, it isn't all gray either. You could use the analogy using the example that Afghanistan is just in a phase right now, not quite as far along as America on gay rights, but on the whole its a wash so therefore Afghanistan and America are essentially the same on gay rights and the people are equally as capable of passing equal rights.

The truth is that there is a bit of a difference overall between people in, say, New York and people in a more protestant class driven society like Alabama or even North Carolina.

It isn't just a wash, there are serious differences in the average population of each respective state. But we also can't obsess over it and say everyone is bad in Utah, it simply isn't true. There are genuine progressives in Utah, even if they make up a much smaller percent of the population.

I don't accept the tolerant cities list, however, because it is mostly just a list of bad data. There are too many blaring problems with that map. For example, on a local level, I can't imagine how they rank Rochester so differently than Buffalo. The demographics between this region aren't that varied just some 70 miles up the road. Ithaca is a liberal college town, okay I get that, but Elmira? Come on...

Just the local oddities proves the chart has no basis in reality.

[Brandon716]

Originally Posted by urbanactivist

I'm really saddened to see comments like this one.

What people on the coasts seem to forget... equality is on-going, and every city has it's issues. Just how "tolerant" is New York if it's still enacting policies like Stop-and-Frisk? If a city like Houston... 2 million people in Texas... can elect an openly-gay mayor whom has raised 3 adopted kids with her partner (twice now... the first election was not a fluke), how "horrible" can it possibly be? If a city like San Antonio can pass domestic partner benefits, is it really that bad?

The relationship between states and major cities always presents conflict. The city of Houston appoints transgender judges, has special police and municipal sensitivity and equality training, and is working hard to grant domestic partner benefits again (it was enacted in 2001, only to be revoked by city-wide referendum).

What none of us need are continued put-downs like the one above. Equality is a fight that we all must win, and that requires shared work to overcome every loss, and shared celebration at every progression... no matter how big or small.

I don't think most people consider Houston a bastion of hate. What I do think people think - and rightfully so - is when you step outside the immediate core of the region, its politics can change drastically. You go from gay friendly and secular then convert to Tom DeLay country very, very quickly in a place like Houston.

But you know what? Change is also possible. Houston is growing because of international immigration, not people moving from other parts of the USA to Houston. Its dynamic, its multicultural, its changing. Just because Tom DeLay type politics controls such a large part of the area doesn't mean it has to be that way forever.

On the other side of the coin, most people think New York state passed gay marriage because of New York City. It just isn't so, the tie-breaking votes came from upstate. One key important voice was a Republican who won a Democratic seat in the State Senate right here in Buffalo. The old candidate who used to fill the seat supported gay marriage, and the Republican (who represents suburban Buffalo, Amherst and Clarence townships) named Mark Grisanti switched his support in favor of it. Along with some other upstate politicians, it put New York over the 50% mark.

New York state passed gay marriage with a Republican controlled Senate. Republican controlled... Now, there is an underlying story here, every single Democrat except for a few voted for gay marriage, only a handful of Republicans switched over (most notably upstate politicians), but the key story is the Republicans allowed it to be voted on. They didn't stonewall the vote and keep it from happening.

In other words, there are vast differences between the states. If New York's Republican controlled State Senate could allow a vote that led to gay marriage, it shows that the state has a more moderate Republican party and a more liberal Democratic party than most states.

These are real differences, and they exist outside the city. Buffalo is a very liberal city, the number of Democrats to Republicans in Erie County is nearly 3:1 ratio. Rochester is a very liberal city. And its not just union membership (union membership in Buffalo is about as rare these days as it is in the south), its very much a socially progressive area. Buffalo flew the gay pride flag for like two weeks in front of city hall in June, as it does every year.



Smaller Texas cities aren't the same. Midland? Waco? Even San Antonio and Austin aren't as liberal as New York's smaller cities, yet they are known for being less conservative than Texas as a whole.

There are genuine differences to be noted, but no one thinks Houston is "backwards" I wouldn't think. Houston is a progressive island immediately surrounded by some pretty darn conservative politics that controls a bit of the nation. Tom DeLay essentially controlled Congress for a decade, afterall. So the image of Houston comes from its suburbs, not the city, on its politics.

Its much the same in Atlanta, where Newt Gingrich found his power base. He controlled Congress for a decade before DeLay.

[Derek]

This list is dumb. Living in both San Diego and Portland, Portland is FAR more "tolerant" than San Diego is in so many ways.



But oh well, that's what stupid lists are for.