What's the current political climate in your city/province?

[SignalHillHiker]

Are we allowed to discuss politics here? If not, please just let me know.

For once, politics is actually very exciting in St. John's right now.

First, a little bit of history.

Newfoundland is a two-party province: Progressive Conservatives and Liberals. Historically, the PCs were most popular in urban or wealthy areas, while the Liberals were most popular in rural or poor areas.

When we joined Canada, for example, 52% votes YES, 48% voted NO. That 52% corresponded almost entirely with today's Liberal, that 48% was almost entirely today's PC. Rural and poor NL voted overwhelmingly for Confederation, urban and wealthy NL, especially St. John's, voted overwhelmingly against it.

So, since joining Canada, that's continued to be the divide.

St. John's voted PC, rural areas voted Liberal.

The good thing is PC in NL doesn't mean what it did elsewhere in Canada. NL PCs are the ones who introduced same-sex marriage and they almost NEVER take a stand on ANY social issues whatsoever. It would be political suicide. Newfoundlanders simply don't tolerate government even thinking about such things.

PC, in NL, means simply Newfoundland FIRST. Whatever the **** it takes, Ottawa is going to ****ing listen for once!

Whereas Liberal, in NL, means exactly the same thing but with a more tactful approach.

As rural NL has been destroyed by the collapse of the fishery, urban and wealthy NL has grown.

Thus, the influence of PCs has grown while the Liberal party has fallen out of favour.

That's why Danny Williams, with his "Take down the Canadian flags, then!" approach to dealing with Ottawa enjoyed approval ratings higher than Middle Eastern dictators dare fake.

Of course, his replacement, Kathy Dunderdale - our first elected female Premier - has disappointingly misjudged Newfoundland's mood.

She's become a federal Conservative - shaking hands with Harper, introducing a regressive Access to Information Act, etc. She has destroyed herself and taken her party down with her. They're already calling her Blunderdale.

PC political commentators in NL are already retroactively calling her election victory one last hurrah for Danny Williams.

So, we have a Liberal Party that died with rural NL, we have a PC party that's demonstrated, under Kathy's leadership, it's allied with Ottawa... what happens then?

For the first time in history, a third party - in this case, the NDP, is leading in the polls in Newfoundland right now. This is party that couldn't even get its leader elected in NL until VERY recently. And now it's IN THE LEAD!? That's insane to me.

So, we'll see what happens at the next election. The NDP has a lot of good things going for it... especially a federal leader who sided with Newfoundland over Quebec on Muskrat Falls. Newfoundlanders can't even remember the last time anyone took their side over a vote-rich central Canadian province over ANYTHING.

So it's going to be exciting to see the results.

[vid]

Municipal: Our city council is socialist, the mayor and two councillors are "Conservative" (Liberals that are afraid of being called Liberal). Council actually has no power, it's just 13 people holding a rubber stamp for The Administration which really runs the show. They're mostly Liberals and they love spending money on things we don't need. Only 40% of us bother to vote, so the same people keep getting re-elected to council, and it is council that appoints most of the administration's upper echelon. The good side to this is that a lot of progressive things have been happening here in the past decade.

Provincial and Federal: We usually vote Liberal, but sometimes vote NDP, if we get tired of the Liberals. The Conservatives are a third party, in one case they nearly tied the Greens (and came fourth after them within the city itself). Provincially, the PC Party runs leftists because there are no actual right wingers here for them to run. Of course, Ontario's PC Party up until a few years ago was quite progressive as well.

People here hate the provincial government. Because of our low population, the government isn't very focused on our region. A lot of ideas that could solve many of our problems go unimplemented and our infrastructure is in very bad shape. The incumbents are part of the Provincial government though, and the rising support for the NDP here has resulted in a lot of pork being received in the city in the hopes that the province can maintain the two seats. It probably won't work though. There is a fair amount of support for either separation from Ontario, or greater autonomy for the region within Ontario.

[Dmajackson]

I could go into a long discussion about this but in simple terms;

Locally: political parties aren't used in municipal elections but Halifax Regional Council is mostly aligned with the NDP and Liberal parties.

Provincially: Dominantly NDP country. Some Liberal pockets in urban areas, and some PC pockets in rural areas.

Federally: As evenly split as possible. Conservative in rural mainland, liberal in Cape Breton and Halifax suburbs, and NDP in Halifax (4-4-3 split).

With all three levels of government redrawing their electoral boundaries right now what is true now will likely change come the next elections (Hfx in Fall, NS in Spring 2013 and Canada hopefully ASAP). With Halifax getting most of the seats the map federally will become much more Orange, and provincially I suspect the same thing.

I really hope in their next elections PEI and NB vote NDP. It would be nice to get the Maritimes on the same page and start working towards solving our common problems.

As the first post said the politics here in the East are very different from the West. Other than maybe Vancouver we are likely the most left-wing part of Canada (even though our map is blue).

[MexiQuebecois]

$10 says this thread will turn into a Quebec separatism/bashing shitfest within 3 pages.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by MexiQuebecois

$10 says this thread will turn into a Quebec separatism/bashing shitfest within 3 pages.

Quebec separatism is awesome/sucks. S***, but there, we got it out of the way.

For what it's worth... I think separatism is coming back with a vengeance in Quebec.

The last election, Quebec lurched toward the NDP en masse. And it wasn't enough to form an NDP federal government. In fact, it was so ****ing little, the Conservatives even still won a MAJORITY - WITHOUT Quebec.

Next time around, they're bound to say... well, ****... if we're Canada's second most populous province, and we mean **** all federally... let's just separate.

That's what I would be thinking. It's how I already think since Harper came to power. I can't even relate to that crazy, western style of Conservatism. Trying to promote that in Newfoundland would be like trying to introduce Sharia Law in the Vatican. It's just NOT how we see the world. It's completely outside our conservative-to-liberal scale of ideas.

[The_Architect]

Originally Posted by MexiQuebecois

$10 says this thread will turn into a Quebec separatism/bashing shitfest within 3 pages.

You're single handedly taking the first swipe.

[kool maudit]

quebec was training wheels for my current situation.

[shreddog]

This may be poking the bear in the eye, but do you care to elaborate on what the hell you exactly mean by this???

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

...I can't even relate to that crazy, western style of Conservatism.

[Copes]

Originally Posted by shreddog

This may be poking the bear in the eye, but do you care to elaborate on what the hell you exactly mean by this???

Broadly, I'm assuming SignalHillHiker is referring to Stephen Harper's style of Conservatism, which is so supported in the West. Out here, Harper has to be one of, if not the, most hated politician in recent memory. Rightfully so, in my opinion, and I hope more Canadians wake up. But I don't think this thread should turn into a Harper Sucks vs Harper Rocks thread just yet.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by Copes

Broadly, I'm assuming SignalHillHiker is referring to Steven Harper's style of Conservatism, which is so supported in the West. Out here, Harper has to be one of, if not the, most hated politician in recent memory. Rightfully so, in my opinion, and I hope more Canadians wake up. But I don't think this thread should turn into a Harper Sucks vs Harper Rocks thread just yet.

Well if that's the case, perhaps the OP should have said " I can't even relate to that crazy, Ontario western style of Conservatism" since Ontario sent more Cons and votes that ALL the western provinces combined. (And is where Harpo is really from!)

If you don't like Harpo, don't like him and do your best to do something about it, but making loaded comments like that certainly doesn't help the cause. I'm sure if I said something like not liking the "eastern work ethic" I'd be in for a whole work of pain (BTW, I AM NOT saying anything like that!!)

Now if the OP wishes to weigh in on their controversial statement ...

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by shreddog

This may be poking the bear in the eye, but do you care to elaborate on what the hell you exactly mean by this???

Hello!

Copes summed it up well. From an Atlantic Canadian perspective, Conservatives in western Canada are often off the political spectrum entirely.

It's similar to how western Europe doesn't really have a mainstream equivalent of America's Republicans. Even the most right-wing mainstream parties in western Europe are, on most issues, more liberal than America's Democrats.

From an Atlantic Canadian perspective, it's poetic that the Conservative Party dropped Progressive from its name once it merged with the western-based Reform/Alliance/Whatever Else conservatives. That's how most of us see what happened.

The talk about re-opening the abortion debate, threatening to not introduce same-sex marriage, American-style guns rights lobbying, pressure to allow more privatization of healthcare, undue support for corporations, on and on and on...

These things are CRAZY, full stop, to most Atlantic Canadian conservatives. It's not just that they don't agree with Harper's position on many of these issues, it's that they can't believe these things are even issues. It's like being in science class and having to argue with your teacher that the sun doesn't revolve around the earth.

And you can say what you will about "Eastern work ethic". Harper certainly has. ;-)

[shreddog]

Not that I am here to defend the Cons, but

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

...The talk about re-opening the abortion debate,

Can you provide proof of an official stance by the Cons to this?? Yes individual MPs feel this way, BUT SO DO many Libbies. Officially the party has no stance on this ... or is there something that is hidden??

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

threatening to not introduce same-sex marriage

Many Libbies and some Dippers were against this but were whipped. The Cons have done nothing on this front and have no official policy against this .... or is this part of that same hidden agenda??

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

American-style guns rights lobbyin

???Huh. The Cons are for more time for gun based crime - exactly against the views of the NRA - the gun registry had sweet f%^k all to do with gun control and was purely nanny state theatrics.

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

, pressure to allow more privatization of healthcare,

Quebec has the most private health care in Canada, followed by Ontario. Can you provide proof that the Western style of Conservatism supports this as Alberta has some of the lowest private health care in Canada. And where is that hidden agenda cause I can't see this in there policies.

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

undue support for corporations,

?? The libbies were the biggest supporters of corporations - biggest tax cuts, most lax rules on foreign investments, etc

BTW, in most political circles, "western style conservatism" differs from other styles in that it is grass roots based as opposed to top down big government. The real ironic thing is that Harpo has to date been one of the biggest offenders of nanny state conervatism. If you don't like Harpo's government, then call a spade a spade, don't lambast half the country with an inaccurate observation.

If you don't like Harpo, again, don't like him but call his government for what it is and do something about it. If you want the people to choose something else - something that you feel is better - then give them an alternative don't just say "beware the hidden boogie man!" Contrary to how you feel the general populace of Canada likes Harpo's brand of government - so far the Libbies seem inept and the verdict is still out on whether the Dippers are a one hit wonder or not. Most Canadians are "happy" with Canada as it is and don't agree that the sky is falling - how do I know? Well, who won the last election??

Anyway, I ain't a supporter of Harpo, but can't stand ill informed/biased/naive assesstments of politics - though I occasionally fall into that trap as well.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by shreddog

Anyway, I ain't a supporter of Harpo, but can't stand ill informed/biased/naive assesstments of politics - though I occasionally fall into that trap as well.

I don't believe my assessment is any of those things.

[PoscStudent]

The reason the Conservatives are so unpopular in Newfoundland and Labrador is because of Stephen Harper and Danny Williams attacks on him. Harper has brought in a number of cuts that have upset people here but I'm willing to bet a lot of policies that have been brought in many people here would be gone with.

If there was a referendum on the gun registry I'd say most Newfoundlanders and Labradorians would have voted to get rid of it. A straw poll on a website showed that people here approved of the crime legislation, though you can't put much faith in that. The employment insurance changes are controversial but we continued to support the Liberals in the 90s after bigger changes were made to EI. If Harper wasn't in the picture I'd say the CPC would be doing fine here. They'd probably do much better if Danny hadn't launched the ABC campaign as well, they had 3 of the 7 seats here after the 2006 election.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by PoscStudent

If Harper wasn't in the picture I'd say the CPC would be doing fine here.

I think Harper's unpopularity has more to do with his own attacks on Atlantic Canada, as well as his dishonesty, than Danny's attacks on him - although that may have played a role. You can just... see through Harper. It's hard to explain. He comes across as a Stepford Husband or something. There's just something really unnaturally off about him.

I believe it's more likely Danny's attacks on Harper helped his own popularity as it reflected what a majority of Newfoundlanders were already thinking anyway.

As for the CPC doing better without Harper, it's very likely. Even I could be able to support the party with a new leader. It depends on who the new leader ultimately is, of course - but they can make or break their parties. Just look at what Dunderdale has done with the PCs in Newfoundland.

I'm curious to see what the results of the next election will be. I imagine Newfoundland will stay Liberal overall, much like in 2011:

Liberal: 37.86% (4 seats)
NDP: 32.61% (2 seats)
Conservative: 28.35% (1 seat)

While, in St. John's, it'll probably stay NDP. 2011's results:

St. John's South-Mount Pearl
NDP: 47.8%
Liberal: 28.65%
Conservative: 22.81%

St. John's East
NDP: 71.22%
Conservative: 20.87%
Liberal: 6.85%

[PoscStudent]

See you're even saying you could support the CPC without Harper. I can't stand the man but I still think many people here would have continued voting for his party had they not been attacked so much by Williams. Besides even the attacks Williams discouraged all provincial PCs to not volunteer in 2008, that was the biggest blow to the party and led to the NDP being able to build support here. Harper is unpopular in many areas but people were still willing to vote Conservative and I doubt it would be any different here. In the last election the party recruited 5 star candidates, despite them knowing they would be in for a tough section. Had Harper not had gone back on his equalization promise in 2006 and had gotten along with Danny I would not have been surprised to have seen them sweep the province in the last election.

Atlantic Canadians sook that we are treated unfairly but we have done that forever.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by PoscStudent

See you're even saying you could support the CPC without Harper. I can't stand the man but I still think many people here would have continued voting for his party had they not been attacked so much by Williams. Besides even the attacks Williams discouraged all provincial PCs to not volunteer in 2008, that was the biggest blow to the party and led to the NDP being able to build support here. Harper is unpopular in many areas but people were still willing to vote Conservative and I doubt it would be any different here. In the last election the party recruited 5 star candidates, despite them knowing they would be in for a tough section. Had Harper not had gone back on his equalization promise in 2006 and had gotten along with Danny I would not have been surprised to have seen them sweep the province in the last election.

Atlantic Canadians sook that we are treated unfairly but we have done that forever.

Argh... I hope you're wrong. But I can see your point.

I think Jack Harris was the only guaranteed NDP winner in the last federal election here. Even if Danny was Prime Minister... well, OK, maybe not then. ;-)

[Copes]

The issues that most people have with Harper, at least that I've noticed, aren't his policies as much as the ways in which is pushes them. A few examples:

- The last budget. What the hell? A budget is supposed to be a budget, not a platform to push through a bunch of other legislation that has no place to be in a budget. Follow that up with giving no time for review / debate, and you have one incredibly greasy play.

- Harper's insistence on pushing his policy despite empirical evidence and the population's opinion. Take, for example, his recent crime bill (which shreddog mentions). Harper pushes LONGER sentences for many minor crimes, despite this fact that countless people have indicated that crime in Canada is dropping, that harsher sentences don't work, and that the desire to lock people up longer for crimes involving things like marijuana simply isn't there. Harper doesn't care that more prisons will cost a pile of money, despite the fact that crime is declining. Harper doesn't care that States such as Texas, who have tried such methods, have come out and said that it simply doesn't work. All Harper cares about is pushing a very right-wing agenda that Canadians do not support, regardless of whether or not experts agree and Canadians want it (and yes, I believe that I speak for a majority of Canadians, winning an election in Canada hardly means you have the support of the majority).

- Let's couple this with the fact that he is an awful example of a career politician, and you have a very unlikable guy. Sure, talk about ideals such as fixed election dates and transparency when you're in opposition, but the fact of the matter is, Harper broke his own law because timing was correct for him to win. Further, he has one of the most secretive, unaccountable, and controlled parliaments I've seen (grant it, I've only been following politics for ~10 years so I recognize my lack of history).

We may be left-leaning out here, but the lack of support for Harper isn't necessarily that he doesn't agree with us on every issue. It's the fact that he is a greasy career politician who doesn't even try to hide it. He is very disliked. Since winning a majority his flaws that many of us suspected have been shining through, and I am willing to bet that come the next election there will be another alternative that will receive much support. I don't agree that most Canadians "like Harpo's brand of politics." I think most are apathetic (as viewed by our declining voter turnout) and I also think that many who voted for him and are seeing how he's carrying himself have changed their mind. We'll know soon enough.

[PoscStudent]

It took the NDP a while to convince Harris to run and he only did it because of the ABC campaign. There was talk of provincial PCs looking at running for the CPC in 2008 in St. John's but decided against it after Danny launched his attacks on Harper.

As well the Liberals didn't win rural Newfoundland due to Ignatieff's overwhelming popularity.

[jeremy_haak]

Originally Posted by shreddog

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker
threatening to not introduce same-sex marriage

Many Libbies and some Dippers were against this but were whipped. The Cons have done nothing on this front and have no official policy against this .... or is this part of that same hidden agenda??

Strictly speaking that isn't true. In 2006 they held a free vote on whether the debate should be reopened. It was all but guaranteed to fail, but they did act on the same-sex marriage front. FWIW, I think Harper is uncomfortable being too socially conservative and is probably relieved to have the matter off the table.