What's the current political climate in your city/province? - Page 2

Rusty van Reddick · #21 Posted: **Jul 31, 2012, 6:37 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I don't believe my assessment is any of those things.

You're ignoring every point shreddog just made.

Most galling for me is equating the CPC as "western-style" conservatism. Where are John Baird and Pierre Poilievre from? Ontario. Where was Harper born and raised? Ontario. Harper would be nowhere without the massive support he received in Ontario- the Ottawa area is as blue as Alberta and 905 is home of strident social and fiscal cons like Julian Fantino, and let's not forget about the stench that Bev Oda created.

Our PROGRESSIVE Conservative provincial government is as small-l liberal as any in the country. Premier Redford had a car in last year's Gay Pride parade in Calgary, this year's in Edmonton and will be in Calgary's again when it takes place over Labour Day weekend. Her government reinstated funding for sex reassignment surgery almost immediately after she took office. I'll let it go at that. If anything, western "conservatism," at least what it's come to represent at the provincial level in Alberta, is so far from Harper's Ontario version that I actually voted PC in our recent provincial election.

Now let's hear your take on healthcare privatization in Quebec.

shreddog · #22 Posted: **Jul 31, 2012, 12:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

Strictly speaking that isn't true. In 2006 they held a free vote on whether the debate should be reopened. It was all but guaranteed to fail, but they did act on the same-sex marriage front. FWIW, I think Harper is uncomfortable being too socially conservative and is probably relieved to have the matter off the table.

Yup, you are correct and in the strictest sense it is true that the Cons introduced a vote to delay introduction of SSM. That said, Harpo and Co knew it would fail, a number of Cons did vote against it and a number of Libbies did vote for it (I still believe tha the Dippers were whipped). Most importantly though, this was theatrics to appease some of social extremes in the group and in Dec 2006 Harpo did say very clearly that this was now a dead issue and would not be revisited!

Most importantly it was never part of their official policy and now that they have a majority, there has been no grumblings about revisiting that vote. It's deader than a parrot for the Cons.

shreddog · #23 Posted: **Jul 31, 2012, 12:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty van Reddick

...
Now let's hear your take on healthcare privatization in Quebec.

Funny that this issue is ALWAYS ignored by those with entrenched views. Namely that Quebec LEADS the country in the introduction and PROMOTION of private health care.

While the province certainly does support some social programs moreso than other provinces, regarding healthcare, Quebec is the province that most aligns to the GOP than anyone else in Canada! (How's that for being bombastic!)

SignalHillHiker · #24 Posted: **Jul 31, 2012, 12:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty van Reddick

You're ignoring every point shreddog just made.

Most galling for me is equating the CPC as "western-style" conservatism. Where are John Baird and Pierre Poilievre from? Ontario. Where was Harper born and raised? Ontario. Harper would be nowhere without the massive support he received in Ontario- the Ottawa area is as blue as Alberta and 905 is home of strident social and fiscal cons like Julian Fantino, and let's not forget about the stench that Bev Oda created.

Our PROGRESSIVE Conservative provincial government is as small-l liberal as any in the country. Premier Redford had a car in last year's Gay Pride parade in Calgary, this year's in Edmonton and will be in Calgary's again when it takes place over Labour Day weekend. Her government reinstated funding for sex reassignment surgery almost immediately after she took office. I'll let it go at that. If anything, western "conservatism," at least what it's come to represent at the provincial level in Alberta, is so far from Harper's Ontario version that I actually voted PC in our recent provincial election.

Now let's hear your take on healthcare privatization in Quebec.

I'm surprised there's such a backlash about what I said.

Of course, there are lots of examples to the contrary, but surely this is not your first time hearing that many Atlantic Canadians associate the west with social conservatism? I mean, there are still dry communities on the prairies? There are colonies where people dress and live as though the 1800s. It's the birthplace of Reform, Alliance, all those radically right-wing movements.

What I said is no less common than saying, "Well, America tends to be quite Democrat along both coasts and Republican in the middle."

Sure, there's lots of exceptions... and some of the most reviled Republican leaders, like George W. Bush, are actually from blue states - but that doesn't change the general truth of the statement.

For the most part, the prairies are more conservative - and in dramatically different ways - than Atlantic Canada.

Acajack · #25 Posted: **Jul 31, 2012, 1:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty van Reddick

Now let's hear your take on healthcare privatization in Quebec.

While some of your points are well-taken, I don't get why a guy from Newfoundland should defend health care policies in Quebec, and also why a given province's progressive characteristics (or not) should solely be judged through the prism of socialized medicine...

It's the old stereotype about how universal health care is the defining national characteristic and sacred cow of Canada.

Canadians have to get over this - lots of countries have universal health care.

As I am fond of saying: the "rest of the world" and the "United States of America" are not synonyms.

kool maudit · #26 Posted: **Jul 31, 2012, 1:03 PM**

the serbs fear a genocide.

Acajack · #27 Posted: **Jul 31, 2012, 1:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool maudit

the serbs fear a genocide.

I did not think there were that many left in Kosovo.

kool maudit · #28 Posted: **Jul 31, 2012, 1:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

I did not think there were that many left in Kosovo.

they are in the north, around mitrovica. it's a stronghold. partition is a reasonable option, but would result in other partitions (macedonia), so it won't be entertained,

Rusty van Reddick · #29 Posted: **Jul 31, 2012, 5:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

For the most part, the prairies are more conservative - and in dramatically different ways - than Atlantic Canada.

Where are the most evangelical Christians? Where is Canada's Bible Belt?

NEWFOUNDLAND.

NF is also, when it comes to things like attitudes surrounding abortion and same-sex marriage, the most socially conservative province (along with PEI).

Rusty van Reddick · #30 Posted: **Jul 31, 2012, 5:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

While some of your points are well-taken, I don't get why a guy from Newfoundland should defend health care policies in Quebec, and also why a given province's progressive characteristics (or not) should solely be judged through the prism of socialized medicine...

He used the myth of Alberta privatising health care as evidence of its conservatism. The fact is that Quebec is the centre of healthcare privatisation.

Copes · #31 Posted: **Jul 31, 2012, 5:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty van Reddick

NF is also, when it comes to things like attitudes surrounding abortion and same-sex marriage, the most socially conservative province (along with PEI).

Proof?

Given my own personal experience during my five years here, this would surprise me.

someone123 · #32 Posted: **Jul 31, 2012, 5:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty van Reddick

NF is also, when it comes to things like attitudes surrounding abortion and same-sex marriage, the most socially conservative province (along with PEI).

The provinces are significant politically but attitudes on many issues also correlate with how urban or rural a particular area is. PEI is the most rural province in Canada -- imagine polling a region made up of 150,000 people living in and around Red Deer.

SignalHillHiker · #33 Posted: **Jul 31, 2012, 5:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty van Reddick

Where are the most evangelical Christians? Where is Canada's Bible Belt?

NEWFOUNDLAND.

NF is also, when it comes to things like attitudes surrounding abortion and same-sex marriage, the most socially conservative province (along with PEI).

That's all incorrect.

I've never seen a single Evangelical church in Newfoundland. I'm sure they must exist - but they certainly couldn't represent the largest Evangelical population in Canada. I'm sure any of the mega-churches in the prairie capitals easily eclipse our entire Evangelical population.

In fact, most Evangelical denominations have exactly ZERO members in all of Newfoundland and Labrador:

http://www.stats.gov.nl.ca/statistic...L_Religion.pdf

Also, the Bible Belt, in Canada, refers to:

In Canada
In Canada, the term is also sometimes used to describe several disparate regions which have a higher than average level of church attendance. These include some rural areas of the Prairies, the rural and more traditional parts of the Fraser Valley of British Columbia, the Annapolis Valley of Nova Scotia and the Saint John River Valley of New Brunswick.[14]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_Belt#In_Canada

And Newfoundland and Labrador, like most of Atlantic Canada and the north-eastern United States, has consistently demonstrated very liberal views on subjects such as same-sex marriage and abortion.

Reesonov · #34 Posted: **Jul 31, 2012, 5:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I'm surprised there's such a backlash about what I said.

Of course, there are lots of examples to the contrary, but surely this is not your first time hearing that many Atlantic Canadians associate the west with social conservatism? I mean, there are still dry communities on the prairies? There are colonies where people dress and live as though the 1800s. It's the birthplace of Reform, Alliance, all those radically right-wing movements.

Are you actually suggesting that Eastern Canadians associate western Canada with Huttterite colonies? The ~25,000 Hutterites out of ~10,000,000 Western Canadians? If so, good grief.

Reesonov · #35 Posted: **Jul 31, 2012, 6:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Also, the Bible Belt, in Canada, refers to:

In Canada
In Canada, the term is also sometimes used to describe several disparate regions which have a higher than average level of church attendance. These include some rural areas of the Prairies, the rural and more traditional parts of the Fraser Valley of British Columbia, the Annapolis Valley of Nova Scotia and the Saint John River Valley of New Brunswick.[14]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_Belt#In_Canada

See how I bolded a different part of your cited passage, in the hopes that everyone would now ignore the bit about "rural areas of the prairies" and focus only on the Annapolis Valley of Nova Scotia and the Saint John River Valley of New Brunswick?

SignalHillHiker · #36 Posted: **Jul 31, 2012, 6:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reesonov

See how I bolded a different part of your cited passage, in the hopes that everyone would now ignore the bit about "rural areas of the prairies" and focus only on the Annapolis Valley of Nova Scotia and the Saint John River Valley of New Brunswick?

If that was my intention, I'd just have cut that part of the sentence out and added ellipses.

I bolded the reference to the prairies because it supports my point. I didn't bold the rest because it's irrelevant to his argument that NL is the Bible Belt.

someone123 · #37 Posted: **Jul 31, 2012, 6:06 PM**

I love how the citation that supposedly backs up that sentence is actually a broken link to a Canada.com article.

It doesn't even really make sense to talk about a US-style "Bible Belt" in Canada.

PoscStudent · #38 Posted: **Jul 31, 2012, 6:15 PM**

Newfoundland and Labrador still have many peon who have more socially conservative views. However, they still love their big government.

Copes · #39 Posted: **Jul 31, 2012, 6:16 PM**

It really shouldn't be shocking that Eastern Canadians feel that people from Western Ontario and beyond, particularly the Prairies, support Stephen Harper and his Conservative politics.

http://electoralcartogram.ca/#!/show:2011

Anyway, I agree that Canada really doesn't have a "Bible Belt", just regions speckled around the country that are more religious than others. Nothing that compares to the Bible Belt in the Southern United States.

SignalHillHiker · #40 Posted: **Jul 31, 2012, 6:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reesonov

Are you actually suggesting that Eastern Canadians associate western Canada with Huttterite colonies? The ~25,000 Hutterites out of ~10,000,000 Western Canadians? If so, good grief.

Hmm... you're right, that was unfair. I didn't mean to imply everything was a colony. It's just something we don't have that stands out from my perspective, one example from the list.