Canada Viewed from Abroad: What do People Think?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by le calmar

I don't agree with you on this one... From what I have experienced during my 2 years in France, most French (I would guess 75% of them) think we speak English better than French (even in Quebec). They do know we speak French, but they are more than aware of the duality of languages, and English is seen as predominant. They expect us to speak both languages, and many are aware of the fact that anglo-canadians don't speak French.

If I can be the devil's advocate on people in France thinking that Québécois are more at ease in English than in French...

If you pick 100 Frenchmen at random and asked them to name "Canadians", the list of the top 12 would look something very close to this:

1. Céline Dion
2. Roch Voisine
3. Isabelle Boulay
4. Robert Charlebois
5. Jacques Villeneuve
6. Garou
7. Anthony Kavanagh
8. Natasha St-Pier
9. Lynda Lemay
10. Stéphane Rousseau
11. Bryan Adams
12. Marie-Josée Croze

All of them except for Adams are very obviously French native speakers.

On one point I agree is that most are aware of the linguistic duality with English, and are often surprised to meet Québécois who can't speak a word of English, or to find out that they even exist. Because we are in North America (not so much "Canada"), most people in France expect all people in Quebec to speak excellent (second language) English like the Dutch or the Swedes.

[SignalHillHiker]

^ I find it annoying that people (myself included) aren't fluent in both official languages.

One of the requirements to graduate high school in Canada should be to demonstrate fluency in both official languages. We've already proven that learning a second language in childhood increases the connections between brain cells and very probably improves the function and capabilities of the human brain. It should be a no-brainer to equip our country's youth with that advantage.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by yaletown_fella

Seriously? I doubt even .5% of Texans know what Alberta is.

Agreed. Objectively, time and again in public surveys, a majority of Texans aren't even able to recall most of the other states in their own country. I highly doubt their knowledge of anything Canadian is any better -- even if it's about the Canadian province that is most Texas-like in terms of major industries, religious literalism and its direct influence on politics, support for the death penalty, climate change denalism, enthusiasm for gun ownership, and the lag behind the national average in growing a tolerance for human differences (different races, religions, sexual orientations, etc...).

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

^ I find it annoying that people (myself included) aren't fluent in both official languages.

One of the requirements to graduate high school in Canada should be to demonstrate fluency in both official languages. We've already proven that learning a second language in childhood increases the connections between brain cells and very probably improves the function and capabilities of the human brain. It should be a no-brainer to equip our country's youth with that advantage.

Yes!!

I absolutely agree, and find it quite wonderful to see a growing number of Canadians that are understanding the importance of language versatility!

Both anglophone and francophone schools should be teaching our Canadian children both English and French from the beginning of grade school to the end.

You're correct about the developmental advantages during childhood concerning the brain and language. I would like to add that anglophones in Canada have even more to gain from learning French, since there is such a large amount of French already present in Modern English. Learning French will not only give anglophones the opportunity of practicing their own language, as learning ANY second language requires, but learning French will more directly give anglophones better command over the English language with 'high diction' romance words.

There is no such thing as 'English' and 'French' Canada anymore; every province and territory has at least a minor presence of both.

For New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, Ontario, and Manitoba -- there are areas within those provinces where French is the majority language. I love it!

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

how much time have you spent in alabama?

I personally have never been to Alabama, but I have been to the US many times, including one 6 week stretch in Washington DC during residency, and the degree of parochialism and lack of geographical knowledge down there is truly stunning!!!

This is encapsulated really well by Rick Mercers series Talking to Americans.

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I remember once as a child, visiting Boston, and trying to buy something in a model train store, I passed the owner a Canadian $10 bill. Obviously it wasn't legal tender and the owner was under no obligation to accept it, but he eyed it suspiciously and said that "he didn't know that Canada had dollar bills too"!!!!!!

Originally Posted by kool maudit

i have heard this one on many occasions... the parents of mcgill students, clueless tourists from new hampshire, convention-goers.

it didn't happen.

I'm well aware that this is a cliche, but my wife's friend was a border services agent in Yarmouth, and I don't doubt that something like this could happen occasionally.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

...the degree of parochialism and lack of geographical knowledge down there is truly stunning!!!

At one of our block barbecues last week, a neighbour told us her uncle would be visiting Newfoundland this summer and he hadn't been here since the early 1950s.

This started up a conversation (a typical one in Newfoundland) about how far ahead we are of the rest of the world in so many ways, hahaha. It really is comical how often it comes up - it's at "me thinks thou doth protest too much" levels. And it's usually attributed to good common sense, liberal social views, a high standard of living/quality of life, and natural beauty.

ANYHOW... that conversation eventually turned into one about how little Americans know about the outside world. And my mother, who relatively recently stayed in New York City for a few weeks and has a sister in San Antonio, Texas, said (paraphrasing, but almost verbatim):

"It's terrifying how closed off from the rest of the world you feel when you're down there. There's no mention of anywhere else in the news, unless it's a war, and - what's even more troubling - there's no interest. My sister said the only way to keep from becoming isolated and close-minded is to have family outside, like in Canada, and stay in touch with them. Otherwise all you could possibly know is your little corner of America. The world, for them, it's just so small."

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Jelly Roll

I was working at a construction site in Center City Philadelphia in the winter of 2009. Most of the building supplies were shipped in from Canada and all of the truck drivers were Canadian. Well, one of the truck drivers was having trouble backing the truck onto the job site and had 4 plus blocks backed up with cars and the police show up screaming and all of the drivers are honking there horns. The police office gets out of his car and and yells at the guy directing traffic to get the truck out of the f**cking road to which he responds "The driver is Canadian." The cop instantly shut up and went and got back in his car. The people stopped honking there horns and everyone in the immediate area calmed down. Apparently to people in Philadelphia being from Canada is looked upon almost like having a mental illness. It was a very strange thing to see unfold.

Probably not. Can people not give the benefit of the doubt to people that maybe they were trying to be understanding and nice to someone from another country? That maybe Canada has a good reputation stateside so Americans are more likely to cut us some slack?

[kool maudit]

quick: who is the prime minister of denmark?

yeah, ok, "helle thorning-schmidt" -- but wikipedia, right? because that's what we are going down there and asking them. it's not a neighbor thing, it's a size-and-influence-of-country thing... and fuck do we know about mexico?

i get real sick of our own parochialism sometimes, as exemplified perfectly by "talking to americans." our little superiority thing is deeply, DEEPLY unattractive on a cultural level.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

At one of our block barbecues last week, a neighbour told us her uncle would be visiting Newfoundland this summer and he hadn't been here since the early 1950s.

This started up a conversation (a typical one in Newfoundland) about how far ahead we are of the rest of the world in so many ways, hahaha. It really is comical how often it comes up - it's at "me thinks thou doth protest too much" levels. And it's usually attributed to good common sense, liberal social views, a high standard of living/quality of life, and natural beauty.

ANYHOW... that conversation eventually turned into one about how little Americans know about the outside world. And my mother, who relatively recently stayed in New York City for a few weeks and has a sister in San Antonio, Texas, said (paraphrasing, but almost verbatim):

"It's terrifying how closed off from the rest of the world you feel when you're down there. There's no mention of anywhere else in the news, unless it's a war, and - what's even more troubling - there's no interest. My sister said the only way to keep from becoming isolated and close-minded is to have family outside, like in Canada, and stay in touch with them. Otherwise all you could possibly know is your little corner of America. The world, for them, it's just so small."

Not directed at you but Canadians can be so smug.

You average Canadian isn't exactly the worldliest person either, and if you sit down with people from other countries you quickly realize this.

Canadians, for example, tend to be woefully ignorant of their own country's history, heritage, culture and even political system. Most Canadian-born people would fail our citizenship test given to immigrants.

Canadians tend to have decent knowledge of the U.S., its history and all that. I think we all know why that is - it's not something that has a lot of merit when it comes to being worldly sophisticates.

So yeah, Canadians may be slightly more likely than Americans to know that there was an earthquake in Iran or that there are protests in Syria, but honestly if people got out more and met people from other countries they'd quickly realize that we're not exactly a nation of Peter Ustinovs...

[The_Architect]

Talking to Americans is full of leading questions/statements and selectively cut and pasted for the purpose of comedy. I would never use that to judge Americans as a whole.

I do use my own experiences though, one example being the sheer number of them amazed that "Canada has its own airline".

[SignalHillHiker]

^ Makes sense to me.

I couldn't pass a Canadian citizenship test. I could probably pass a Newfoundland equivalent, however. I suck at American/African geography, but I can easily identify every country in Europe (and neighbouring parts of Asia), their capitals, other major cities, etc.

Basically, there's no shortage of things I don't know.

As for the superiority complex... that's clearly what it is but I tend to think of it more as a defence than an offence. It always feels like a reaction to real or perceived prejudices/misconceptions from outside rather than a genuine desire to bring down others.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

quick: who is the prime minister of denmark?

I might not be able to tell you off the top of my head who the prime minister of Denmark is, but I know where Denmark is, it's general size and population, it's capital and the fact that it is a constitutional monarchy. I know about the "little mermaid" statue in Copenhagen harbour and the bridge connecting Copenhagen to Sweden (somewhere around Malmo I believe). I know that Denmark owns Greenland and that Canada now have a land border with Denmark on that little disputed island off the Greenland coast.

I know all these things and a little more, all without looking at Wikipedia even once. Meanwhile, many Americans would be hard pressed to find Europe on a map.

• Video Link

[Reesonov]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

Agreed. Objectively, time and again in public surveys, a majority of Texans aren't even able to recall most of the other states in their own country. I highly doubt their knowledge of anything Canadian is any better -- even if it's about the Canadian province that is most Texas-like in terms of major industries, religious literalism and its direct influence on politics, support for the death penalty, climate change denalism, enthusiasm for gun ownership, and the lag behind the national average in growing a tolerance for human differences (different races, religions, sexual orientations, etc...).

Speaking of parochialism, the recent surge in smugness among some Eastern Canadian posters towards their poor, backwoods cousins in Alberta is similarly unattractive.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Reesonov

Speaking of parochialism, the recent surge in smugness among some Eastern Canadian posters towards their poor, backwoods cousins in Alberta is similarly unattractive.

I think Alberta is amazing, actually. I've enjoyed both Edmonton and Calgary -- though the rural areas did make me feel somewhat uncomfortable.

I'm not even a native of Calgary, and being in that city made me feel proud to be Canadian.

I am not 'smug' toward Albertans, I am just speaking of the statistical reality. Not all Albertans are conservative, and certainly not all Albertains are bigots. There is, however, a stronger minority presence of conservatism and certain types of bigotry in Alberta. Talking about it does not make one 'smug'.

[SignalHillHiker]

^ I liked Alberta as well. My trip to Calgary was fantastic. But that doesn't negate the overwhelmingly conservative politics.

To choose a local example as well...

Newfoundland has, I assume, the highest unemployment rate of any Canadian province. There are lots of exceptions - St. John's unemployment rate would certainly be near the Canadian average and there are even projects in the city that have been delayed solely because there aren't enough workers - but that doesn't change the fact that, overall, Newfoundland has a high unemployment rate.

[kw5150]

View from the USA:

The USA ends in the "far north in Montana ." There is nothing beyond that but snow, mystery and Santa Claus.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Acajack

If you pick 100 Frenchmen at random and asked them to name "Canadians", the list of the top 12 would look something very close to this:

1. Céline Dion
2. Roch Voisine
3. Isabelle Boulay
4. Robert Charlebois
5. Jacques Villeneuve
6. Garou
7. Anthony Kavanagh
8. Natasha St-Pier
9. Lynda Lemay
10. Stéphane Rousseau
11. Bryan Adams
12. Marie-Josée Croze

All of them except for Adams are very obviously French native speakers.

For me after 1 and 5, the next 2 Quebecois would be Mitsou and Andre Philippe Gagnon. I don't recognize those other names. That's a Vancouver perspective on Quebec.

[Jelly Roll]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Probably not. Can people not give the benefit of the doubt to people that maybe they were trying to be understanding and nice to someone from another country? That maybe Canada has a good reputation stateside so Americans are more likely to cut us some slack?

I wish/hope you are right but it did not appear like that is what happened. Most American's are very ignorant of anything outside of their immediate lives and have very warped ideas about the world. It is downright scary talking to many of them and hearing about what they actually believe. I think most of us American's that have been to Canada have a very favorable view of the country but you average person from the US still thinks the US is by far the best country in the world and everyone else is living in the stone age even though that view is completely wrong.

I have a theory that the reason why most Americans have such a warped view of the world is because of the way information is spread throughout the US. From the time we are little kids it is constantly drilled into our heads that the US is the best. Now add in the most people do not leave the country so the only time we see other places is when they are on the news. The only time another country will be on the US news is for sporting events or when a war is happening there. Given this your average person from the US has the belief that American is the best and the only other countries that are seen on TV are countries that are at war. So for the average person in the US the comparison is US against war torn countries or places that need US aid. Then they see how bad parts of the US is with poverty and unemployment but they still believe that these parts of the US is better then other countries so they then believe that other countries are all poor 3rd world nations. So in the end you get a substantial portion of the US population that has absolutely no clue about the world around then but are very sure that it is a poor scary place and that the US is the best and nowhere else is safe.

Sorry for the long rant...

[kw5150]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

Talking to Americans is full of leading questions/statements and selectively cut and pasted for the purpose of comedy. I would never use that to judge Americans as a whole.

I do use my own experiences though, one example being the sheer number of them amazed that "Canada has its own airline".

Except, on the show, even if they dont know the answer to something they will make it seem like they wrote the book. Masters of BS down there.

Americans! Just say "I dont know" for once.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

i get real sick of our own parochialism sometimes, as exemplified perfectly by "talking to americans." our little superiority thing is deeply, DEEPLY unattractive on a cultural level.

There are plenty of other countries who look down on the U.S. They're a pretty easy target for one reason or another.