Why don't more New Yorkers move to Philadelphia?

[Larry King]

It seems that New York is too expensive for most normal people these days.

You either end up paying an outrageous rent or live in a rough out of the way neighborhood... Or quite often both

In Philadelphia you can live in the best part of town for the price of living in Canarsie. And the best part of Philly is definetly a pleasant urban experience

With telecommuting so popular these days...

I don't understand why more people don't move to Philly and then just go back to manhattan once or twice a week. Totally manageable and low stress lifestyle

Is it because most people in a position to work from home are also in a position to afford ny prices?

Do you see this as a major demographic force in the two cities in the future?

[Crawford]

Odd question.

There are tons of New Yorkers in Philadelphia. Where do you think all those Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, Russians and Chinese come from?

[miketoronto]

At the end of the day, a lot of jobs require more face to face interaction than people think.
And you still are in a different city no matter what. The two cities may seem close, but its still a good hour and a half to two hours between the two places.
And as nice as Philly is, its still not NYC .

[10023]

"Telecommuting" is still a fantasy for 98% of jobs, just like the "paperless office". Sure people work remotely on weekends, or occasionally on a summer Friday, but almost no one can get away with only coming into the the office a couple times a week. Not even, or perhaps least of all, the most senior executives at a company (who can also probably afford Manhattan).

[Private Dick]

Because Philadelphia (while a great city) is not New York.

[MolsonExport]

Allentown, PA is closer by a few kms to NYC than is Philly, if R/E costs are the main factor (which I think, is not the case)

[Private Dick]

^ That's precisely the reason Allentown and the Lehigh Valley region has grown significantly in population over the past 10 years. Allentown greatly overtook Erie as the state's 3rd largest city in the 2010 census specifically because of its low real estate costs in close proximity to NY/NJ. It is the fastest growing city in PA, just because of the influx of people from the NYC area.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Odd question.

There are tons of New Yorkers in Philadelphia. Where do you think all those Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, Russians and Chinese come from?

Also an odd question.

A: Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Russia & China.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

Also an odd question.

A: Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Russia & China.

I'd wager that isn't the case, and a very high proportion of recently arrived Philadelphians with those countries-of-origin have their roots in the Five Boroughs. NYC tends to be more of a gateway city, and Philly tends to be more of a receiving city.

There are obvious reasons why NYC has advantages as an entry point, and why Philly has advantages for immigrants looking to get their proverbial "piece of the pie".

The Chinese in NE Philly tend to be from Brooklyn (Sunset Park and Bensonhurst), where the Chinese real estate agency shopfronts are plastered with cheap homes in NE Philly. Similarly, the Russians in Rhawnhurst, Philly, tend to be from Brooklyn, where a number of Brooklyn businesses (such as Net Cost market) established beacheads in this affordable alternative.

[Jelly Roll]

Originally Posted by Larry King

It seems that New York is too expensive for most normal people these days.

You either end up paying an outrageous rent or live in a rough out of the way neighborhood... Or quite often both

In Philadelphia you can live in the best part of town for the price of living in Canarsie. And the best part of Philly is definetly a pleasant urban experience

With telecommuting so popular these days...

I don't understand why more people don't move to Philly and then just go back to manhattan once or twice a week. Totally manageable and low stress lifestyle

Is it because most people in a position to work from home are also in a position to afford ny prices?

Do you see this as a major demographic force in the two cities in the future?

It is very hard to find a job in Philadelphia if you do not have an already established network of people that can help you out. Then if you are a top level job candidate not only are there more jobs available in NYC but the pay is also much better most of the time.

[antinimby]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Because Philadelphia (while a great city) is not New York.

I don't think the differences will matter much to your average immigrant.

[novawolverine]

Originally Posted by antinimby

I don't think the differences will matter much to your average immigrant.

Are immigrants telecommuting much, which is what the OP is talking about. Plenty of immigrants already do commute from long distances to their jobs.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by novawolverine

Are immigrants telecommuting much, which is what the OP is talking about. Plenty of immigrants already do commute from long distances to their jobs.

I think most immigrants are in more traditional businesses, and telecommuting isn't really a major factor in locational decisions.

I think a more typical example would be a Dominican family, in, say, the West Bronx. They want to open a bodega, but prices for well-located retail are sky-high in the boroughs, and competition is intense.

So they move to Philly and open the same bodega, with much lower rent and much less competition.

There are plenty of academic papers that deal with the dispersion of immigrant communities from gateway communities. That's how you have random Puerto Rican neighborhoods in the Poconos or wherever.

[Rail Claimore]

I think growth in Philly and the northern suburbs will start accelerating this decade as a result of New Yorkers wanting a cheaper, but still-close, locale.

[Westsidelife]

Trading Greenwich Village for Rittenhouse Square ain't so bad.

[Jelly Roll]

Originally Posted by Rail Claimore

I think growth in Philly and the northern suburbs will start accelerating this decade as a result of New Yorkers wanting a cheaper, but still-close, locale.

It already happened in the northern suburbs and to such a level that Mercer County now has more people commuting to NYC as opposed to Philly even though it is only 15 minutes from the northern part of Philly to Mercer County.

[CentralGrad258]

This question will lead nowhere good. Most people responding will be clueless and bring their own prejudices and subjective opinions, instead of local knowledge to the equation. New York and Philly are two different cities. People who want to live in Philly, live in Philly. Those who want to live in New York, live in New York. They all have their individual reasons.

Let me give an example of someone who doesn't have a clue of what they're talking about:

Originally Posted by Crawford

Similarly, the Russians in Rhawnhurst, Philly, tend to be from Brooklyn, where a number of Brooklyn businesses (such as Net Cost market) established beacheads in this affordable alternative.

Now my family came to Philly in the early 1990s from Kiev, when there was already a sizable Soviet immigrant community in the Somerton section of the city. In my 20 years of being in and around the community I know of exactly 1 Russian person who moved to Philly from New York (due to marriage) and that is it. Net Cost is indeed a Brooklyn based chain, but it came along pretty late in the game and is one of many businesses servicing the community.

I obviously can't speak as confidently about the other immigrant communities in and around the Philly metro. I just want to highlight the fact that most posters that will respond to the question don't really have much of a clue on this topic unless it's something they're researched extensively or actually belong to one of the groups in question.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by antinimby

I don't think the differences will matter much to your average immigrant.

The discussion was not specifically about immigrants, average or otherwise.

There are millions of non immigrants who would find Philadelphia a more affordable option than New York. I believe that was the intent of the OP's topic initially, before it as clouded by people talking about immigrants.

The fact is, NYC is FAR more of a destination city for people all over the US than Philadelphia is. As I (and miketoronto) said originally, Philadelphia is not New York.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by CentralGrad258

Let me give an example of someone who doesn't have a clue of what they're talking about:

You're basically saying that my anecdotal experiences mean "I don't have a clue", because they don't mirror your anecdotal experiences. Why, exactly?

I think you're wrong. I know plenty of Russian (really former Soviet) families who immigrated from South Brooklyn, and now live in Philly. I know a family from Belarus, two from Ukraine, and I see the real estate ads in the Russian storefronts.

And I know that Net Cost, among other businesses, specifically chose a neighborhood in Staten Island and another in Philly, because that's where some of their customers were moving.

The fact is that ethnicites are mobile. The stereotypes of where people are supposed to live usually aren't true. For example, Brighton Beach, while still Russian, is nowhere near the largest Russian community anymore.

[Kingofthehill]

There has been alot of migration in the "hipster" and artsy/creative fields from NYC - especially Brooklyn - to Philly, specifically Fishtown/Kensington and Northern Liberties. I stayed in a recently-renovated Fishtown rowhouse with a Haitian-American and Jewish couple from Fort Greene, and they had said many of their friends similarly made the move. Of course, these are people knee-deep in the art game, with actual projects, showings and portfolios, and are not the transplant wannabe's moving to Brooklyn because it's "cool", or what they see on Girls. Obviously, there is more to it, but this fits within the whole "more space for less" narrative that so often characterizes artist movement and transience. Through-the-roof real estate costs and COL have sent lots of NYC artists to Philly, Portland, Baltimore, Berlin, Detroit, or even deeper into Brooklyn.

Not buying into the silly, patronizing and borderline insulting "Sixth Borough" bs the NYT gave us a while ago, but this piece from a popular Philly blog makes mention of several trendy Brooklyn establishments opening up shop in Philly: http://nakedphilly.com/fishtown/fran...fore-our-eyes/

Also, those Dominican bodegas with "Philly Cheese Steaks"? More often than not, those people have relocated from, or have ties to, NYC (in this case, Washington Heights, Inwood, and the West Bronx-adjacent communities across the Harlem River from them). Lots of the Chinese have roots in NYC, too, and they are often frequent patrons of the infamous Chinatown buses that run/ran between the cities' Chinatowns. However, I wouldn't go as far as saying they all come from NYC, even if the connection is clearly there.