Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service

[caveat.doctor]

Originally Posted by Luisito

How has the train been working out? Are people satisfied with the service?

Like others here I'm fairly satisfied with the train service. I live near Carling/Holland and my commutes to and from downtown during rush hour take about the same length as a good day on the previous buses. It can be slower than the old buses during non-peak times because the transfer at Tunney's can be as short as <1 min but as long as 10-15 min (which, for what should be a 20 min trip, is a huge penalty). But balancing that vs traffic delays to the old buses, the travel time is close enough to not notice a difference overall.

The ride is good (usual caveats: not as smooth or fast as a regular metro, but better than a bus) and of course service along the line itself is faster, more frequent and more regular. I previously would never go to St Laurent or Gloucester Centre for example, but occasionally now go to both out of variety just because it's so easy now. As other have mentioned, kids love it - my 3-year-old knows that Rideau station is where we get off for Beavertails in the market, that Tremblay is where we take the train to Montreal or Toronto, and Bayview is where you change for the "red train".

The bad things about the train really are fellow passengers: the much-maligned door holding, and people who block the escalators instead of standing right. Seems to be getting better though - back in Sep/Oct I'd see left-standers on every escalator, but now more often than not people are walk left/stand right spontaneously. I also see more people taking the priority seating and not giving up seats to others than on the bus: whereas on the bus people tend to just get up when someone in need gets on, on the train it seems you have to ask.

But the worst thing with the train is really the cuts to service on the bus network. My commutes to Carling Campus used to be about 25 min direct and reliably able to get me to work and back in time to get my son from daycare within a normal workday schedule. With the cancellation of the 101/103, it's now 40-55 minutes, with a transfer to a bus that only runs every 15 min: would be about two hours more commuting each week, and not reliable enough to count on making that daycare pickup in time without starting work ridiculously early.

I get that the train costs more, but even with the bus service cuts there are some no-cost things that would make it work better. Better scheduling to reduce bus bunching and boosting frequency for one. For example, the 56, 80, 86 and 89 are all options going up/down Holland to/from Tunney's: they should be all spaced so that service is more even and overall more frequent, instead of having two or more routes one right after the other and leaving gaps. OC Transpo has been reasonable at quickly addressing some things since the train opened (removing the doors at Tunney's that were blocking the path to the bus loop, for example) so I hope a bus service review happens soon.

Bottom line, train is good but the rest of the network is worse. I don't get a monthly pass anymore and overall use transit less often for commuting - but the train is a new must-do for days out with my 3-year-old.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by caveat.doctor

But the worst thing with the train is really the cuts to service on the bus network. My commutes to Carling Campus used to be about 25 min direct and reliably able to get me to work and back in time to get my son from daycare within a normal workday schedule. With the cancellation of the 101/103, it's now 40-55 minutes, with a transfer to a bus that only runs every 15 min: would be about two hours more commuting each week, and not reliable enough to count on making that daycare pickup in time without starting work ridiculously early.

I'll be honest, I don't understand how your trip could have gotten that much longer. If it was 25 minutes before with 1 bus, even the worst case transfer (just missing the connection) would add 15 minutes bringing you up to 40 minutes. On average, you might end up at just over 30 minutes with a 7 minute wait. How do you get to 55 minutes?

[lrt's friend]

I get that the train costs more, but even with the bus service cuts there are some no-cost things that would make it work better. Better scheduling to reduce bus bunching and boosting frequency for one. For example, the 56, 80, 86 and 89 are all options going up/down Holland to/from Tunney's: they should be all spaced so that service is more even and overall more frequent, instead of having two or more routes one right after the other and leaving gaps. OC Transpo has been reasonable at quickly addressing some things since the train opened (removing the doors at Tunney's that were blocking the path to the bus loop, for example) so I hope a bus service review happens soon.

OC Transpo used to number certain routes the same when there was a large section of shared routing. Route 86 and 89 used to both be Route 86. We need to go back to shared numbers and have Routes 86 and 89 become 86A and 86B. For whatever reason, OC Transpo can't seem stagger trips properly when the numbers are different, but if they share the same number, they do a much better job. This would also help the user who don't have to fumble around with two different schedules. I am sure if they routes 97 and 98 became 97 and 97A, they would also better coordinate the schedules for the SE Transitway as well and eliminate the unexpected service gaps that are so frustrating to deal with.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

I'll be honest, I don't understand how your trip could have gotten that much longer. If it was 25 minutes before with 1 bus, even the worst case transfer (just missing the connection) would add 15 minutes bringing you up to 40 minutes. On average, you might end up at just over 30 minutes with a 7 minute wait. How do you get to 55 minutes?

Service cuts affecting either or both routes then unexpected trip cancellations.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Service cuts affecting either or both routes then unexpected trip cancellations.

In this case, both routes (55 and 66) run every 15 minutes at peak. Of course, higher frequency is always better, but it doesn't get much better than that.

A requirement to transfer is not the same as a service cut. We could have a more robust transit system with a network of frequent routes rather than a bunch of routes that attempt to provide a 1-seat trip.

I do agree OC needs to do a better job of scheduling routes to distribute frequency more evenly on common sections.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

In this case, both routes (55 and 66) run every 15 minutes at peak. Of course, higher frequency is always better, but it doesn't get much better than that.

A requirement to transfer is not the same as a service cut. We could have a more robust transit system with a network of frequent routes rather than a bunch of routes that attempt to provide a 1-seat trip.

I do agree OC needs to do a better job of scheduling routes to distribute frequency more evenly on common sections.

Didn't route 101 (that is now route 55) not have a more frequent schedule during peak periods than we have today?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

I guess I'm a success story. For me my commute is much better after LRT. I travel from Walkley station to Parliament daily. The biggest change is a) my commute time is now very consistent b) Parliament is a far far warmer and brighter place to wait then the old bus stop on Albert, where I could spend anywhere from 1 minute to 30 playing Ottawa's favorite gameshow: " Is my bus going to show up?"

Or that other game: "Is that one my bus? nope. How about - nope. This one? Nope. Finally, a Ninety- nope."

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by caveat.doctor

my 3-year-old knows that Rideau station is where we get off for Beavertails in the market, that Tremblay is where we take the train to Montreal or Toronto, and Bayview is where you change for the "red train".

Yeah, I'mma be stealing this!

And I wish more people realized the pure entertainment value of riding the trains for kids of all ages.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Or that other game: "Is that one my bus? nope. How about - nope. This one? Nope. Finally, a Ninety- nope."

Now it is, 'what stop do I need to be at?' Is it Stop A, B, C, D, E or F for the next bus going my way?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

OC Transpo used to number certain routes the same when there was a large section of shared routing. Route 86 and 89 used to both be Route 86. We need to go back to shared numbers and have Routes 86 and 89 become 86A and 86B.

Oh, god no. If the route is substantially different, it needs a different designation. Even the drivers used to get confused with A/B/X routes.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Now it is, 'what stop do I need to be at?'

Or the 300-metre Freestyle Transfer Dash at Hurdman and Tunney's.

[caveat.doctor]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

I'll be honest, I don't understand how your trip could have gotten that much longer. If it was 25 minutes before with 1 bus, even the worst case transfer (just missing the connection) would add 15 minutes bringing you up to 40 minutes. On average, you might end up at just over 30 minutes with a 7 minute wait. How do you get to 55 minutes?

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Service cuts affecting either or both routes then unexpected trip cancellations.

I can usually leave work at 1500, sometimes sneaking a few minutes before if I was able to start earlier - always last minute things on the way out, but I try to take the first bus I can get from Carling.



If it's the 66, I can take it all the way to Tunney's (~25-30 min), then connect to something down Holland. (I could get off at Bayshore and connect to the 55, which will get me closer to home (it replicates the 101/103 I used to take) but I can't risk the transfer.) At Tunney's it's any of the 56, 80, 86, 89 (I see the planner here also suggests the 53). In any case, 35 min + 5 min walk = 40 min, assuming connection isn't more than 5 min wait.

If it's the 58 (e.g., one that was supposed to leave Carling before 1500 but was late, or the scheduled one at around 1520), I can take it to Bayshore (~10 min). There it's a gamble: if I can get a 55, that can get me to Carling/Holland in ~15-20 min (just like old times!). But if an 85 comes first, I have to take it (~35 min) because if that 55 doesn't come, it's not frequent enough for the next one to get me home in time. So could be as good as 30 min + 5 min walk = 35 min, or as long as 45 min + 5 min walk = 55 min.

I mentioned before, I understand why bus segments that replicate Line 1 have been removed, but not why those that paralleled it across entirely different parts of town (i.e., 101/103) were also cancelled. This would have kept me a monthly passholder and my car in the driveway.

Failing that, the remaining network needs to be more frequent. Even though I have a choice of routes, if they aren't frequent enough, you're forced to take whatever bus comes first, even if it's slower, because you can't count on making the next one, even if it would have been faster. This has follow-on effects: pushing to leave work earlier, meaning needing to come to work earlier, etc. I find my days when I transit are much less reliable now, always racing against the clock to make sure I have enough buffer to make it home in time.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Didn't route 101 (that is now route 55) not have a more frequent schedule during peak periods than we have today?

It did - the 101 and 103 both started at Carling Campus heading east, less than every ~10-12 min during the afternoon rush home. It was reliable. The 55 starts/stops short at Bayshore, and given the transfer risk isn't a reliable option over the 85 or staying on the 66. Also, the 66 starts at Kanata before getting to Carling, so it's not reliable either - hence why I have to always take the first bus at the stop, whether it's actually the fastest option or not.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by caveat.doctor

I mentioned before, I understand why bus segments that replicate Line 1 have been removed, but not why those that paralleled it across entirely different parts of town (i.e., 101/103) were also cancelled. This would have kept me a monthly passholder and my car in the driveway.

I think the rationale was that the 101/103 were the fastest way for customers in the east end to get to Carling campus before LRT. With LRT, it's faster for them to take the train to Tunney's, so more 66s were added.

Failing that, the remaining network needs to be more frequent. Even though I have a choice of routes, if they aren't frequent enough, you're forced to take whatever bus comes first, even if it's slower, because you can't count on making the next one, even if it would have been faster. This has follow-on effects: pushing to leave work earlier, meaning needing to come to work earlier, etc. I find my days when I transit are much less reliable now, always racing against the clock to make sure I have enough buffer to make it home in time.

I agree more frequency is always better. If OC had the resources, I would argue for better frequency on the 66 and the 55 before doing something like extending the 55 to Carling Place, because I think there would be more benefit to more people.

What would also help you here is better visibility on bus arrivals. Do you use an app like Transit? That would show you how far away the various buses are when you are leaving work. It wouldn't help much at Bayshore (since the 55 starts there) but hopefully the IT upgrades coming later this year would help with that and would be able to tell you whether the 55 is departing imminently after the 85.

BTW- your other options at Bayshore (if you happen to have taken the 58 there) are to take the 61, 62, 63 or 64 to Tunney's- they all follow the same route as the 66. You can also catch them at Moodie if you take the 58 to Moodie.

[PHrenetic]

Good Day. Of interest.....

re: discussions as to temperatures and rails.......FWIW
(and I make no comment on the relative temps and rail experiences).

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...alls-1.5426154

Alberta's extreme cold cracks a city LRT line......
'In this cold weather, hoses break, metal snaps. It's pretty much guaranteed'
Wallis Snowdon, CBC News · Posted: Jan 14, 2020 9:38 AM MT

How cold is it in Edmonton? Cold enough to crack one of the rail lines on the city's LRT system.

The cracked rail caused delays to morning commuters on the city's south end Tuesday morning, joining dead batteries and surreal views caused by ice fog as the deep freeze continues.

Traffic delays are expected on 111th Street, between 57th Avenue and Southgate Mall, on Tuesday as city crews manually control the gate arms of the LRT.

The rail line cracked overnight when temperatures plunged to –34 C, smashing a previous record set in 2005 when the mercury reached a comparatively balmy –28.3 C

Crews will work to repair the cracked rail after the morning commute is over, a city spokesperson said Tuesday in an email to CBC News.

FYI...
I have quoted only the section of the article relevant to the LRT.
The link is to the entire article.

EnJoy!

[lrt's friend]

What caveat.doctor is telling us is exactly what got me to quit being a regular transit user. As new rapid transit is built, we redirect more and more transit service to the rapid transit line while service on secondary routes are slashed. It is great for long distance riders who benefit the most from rapid transit but those whose trips are short to moderate in length and not downtown focused, you end up with fewer options and/or longer trips. My trip times went from 30 to 40 minutes to a wildly undependable 45 minutes to 75 minutes when a car could get me there in 10 minutes. It got to the point that my time was too valuable to waste on an unreliable service that was quickly pricing itself at a pace exceeding inflation every year.

Long ago, I was advocating for zone fares so that the long distance rider more fairly pays their way while providing more revenue so that better service could be offered. We used to have the express supplement that we eliminated but the extra cost of servicing those long distance riders still exists and is actually increasing as more people move out beyond the Greenbelt. This is why fares keep increasing so quickly and service cannot be sustained. We are always trying to find ways to cut service and hope people don't notice. It is perverse that the frequent service designation often came with a service cut on the very same routes.

[CityTech]

-34C is a very rare temperature in Ottawa. In fact, it wasn't recorded once in the entire last decade (coldest was -30.7 on January 24th, 2011).

Here's the coldest recorded hourly temperature of the past ten winters (source - EC, OTTAWA CDA RCS station)
2009-2010 -24.8
2010-2011 -30.7
2011-2012 -25.2
2012-2013 -29.5
2013-2014 -29.5
2014-2015 -28.0
2015-2016 -28.9
2016-2017 -27.2
2017-2018 -28.8
2018-2019 -26.6

We haven't even hit -30 once since 2011.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by CityTech

-34C is a very rare temperature in Ottawa. In fact, it wasn't recorded once in the entire last decade (coldest was -30.7 on January 24th, 2011).

Here's the coldest recorded hourly temperature of the past ten winters (source - EC, OTTAWA CDA RCS station)
2009-2010 -24.8
2010-2011 -30.7
2011-2012 -25.2
2012-2013 -29.5
2013-2014 -29.5
2014-2015 -28.0
2015-2016 -28.9
2016-2017 -27.2
2017-2018 -28.8
2018-2019 -26.6

We haven't even hit -30 once since 2011.

From my experience, we get that kind of cold in Ottawa once every 25 to 50 years. I know we had that degree of cold in January 1981, not sure if ever since then.

[caveat.doctor]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Yeah, I'mma be stealing this!

And I wish more people realized the pure entertainment value of riding the trains for kids of all ages.

Yeah, he's familiar enough to know "the white train is the red line but the red train is the green line". Love seeing how he's developing a mental map of Ottawa - based on transit - as he grows.

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Oh, god no. If the route is substantially different, it needs a different designation. Even the drivers used to get confused with A/B/X routes.

I think where there is, say, 2/3 to 3/4 of the route shared on the same major road it makes sense. Similar issue, when I first moved here I was confused by the non-transitway routes all named "Baseline" and assumed they all went down Baseline Rd when in fact it referred to the destination station rather than the route.

Originally Posted by bradnixon

I think the rationale was that the 101/103 were the fastest way for customers in the east end to get to Carling campus before LRT. With LRT, it's faster for them to take the train to Tunney's, so more 66s were added.

I can see that rationale, but it doesn't jibe with the reality that a big chunk of Ottawa still lives and works along that route. I'm far from the only one in this situation. Moreover, with the parking crunch at Carling this would be a fantastic opportunity to double-down on transit and capture a new market.

Originally Posted by bradnixon

I agree more frequency is always better. If OC had the resources, I would argue for better frequency on the 66 and the 55 before doing something like extending the 55 to Carling Place, because I think there would be more benefit to more people.

Perhaps, that would be a help, but likely so much more expensive to achieve a meaningful improvement than just extending the 55 (see my earlier point about opportunity to capitalise on targeting transit at Carling - there are thousands of people here who won't get parking).

Originally Posted by bradnixon

What would also help you here is better visibility on bus arrivals. Do you use an app like Transit? That would show you how far away the various buses are when you are leaving work. It wouldn't help much at Bayshore (since the 55 starts there) but hopefully the IT upgrades coming later this year would help with that and would be able to tell you whether the 55 is departing imminently after the 85.

I do use Transit and it's helpful for telling me where the inbound 66 is, but alas given the frequencies I'm still bound to take whatever shows up first. And it's still not at all helpful for routes at their starting points (58 at Carling, 55 and 85 at Bayshore) because those are all liable to late starts or cancellations. If the app could tell me that one of those is actually going to happen (e.g., somehow the driver triggers something that confirms s/he is starting on time or not) that could help - is that what you mean by IT upgrade?

Originally Posted by bradnixon

BTW- your other options at Bayshore (if you happen to have taken the 58 there) are to take the 61, 62, 63 or 64 to Tunney's- they all follow the same route as the 66. You can also catch them at Moodie if you take the 58 to Moodie.

Fair point, forgot to mention that - and that's where the app is useful too. It becomes a gamble as to the next transfer from Tunney's down Holland though.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by caveat.doctor

I do use Transit and it's helpful for telling me where the inbound 66 is, but alas given the frequencies I'm still bound to take whatever shows up first. And it's still not at all helpful for routes at their starting points (58 at Carling, 55 and 85 at Bayshore) because those are all liable to late starts or cancellations. If the app could tell me that one of those is actually going to happen (e.g., somehow the driver triggers something that confirms s/he is starting on time or not) that could help - is that what you mean by IT upgrade?

Yes, the IT upgrade is supposed to improve predictions of bus departure times from the first stop at the route by considering where the bus is in its previous trip. So if the bus that is scheduled to depart Bayshore as the 55 is late arriving inbound, its departure time prediction would take that into account. They will also hopefully be ale to integrate cancellations into the app as well.

The 58 at Carling Place should be able to always give you a GPS time because that route never starts at Carling- it should either be on its way from Bayshore (to Moodie) or on its way from Moodie (to Bayshore).

Fair point, forgot to mention that - and that's where the app is useful too. It becomes a gamble as to the next transfer from Tunney's down Holland though.

I can see that, but as you said before, you can also use the 53 down Parkdale. Between the 53, 56, 80, 86 and 89, you should be able to have a minimal wait at Tunney's.

[lrt's friend]

I can see that, but as you said before, you can also use the 53 down Parkdale. Between the 53, 56, 80, 86 and 89, you should be able to have a minimal wait at Tunney's.

Regardless, it is hard to achieve a time saving on a route that involves yet another transfer and is more indirect.