Poll! Which Lebreton Proposal is Best?

[FFX-ME]

I figured it would be good to have a poll in order to quantify peoples' opinions about the two Lebreton Flats proposals. Which proposal do you think is best suited for Ottawa or is exactly what Ottawa needs?

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

I figured it would be good to have a poll in order to quantify peoples' opinions about the two Lebreton Flats proposals. Which proposal do you think is best suited for Ottawa or is exactly what Ottawa needs?

What if we like a bit of both?

[FFX-ME]

Originally Posted by Urbanarchit

What if we like a bit of both?

I was toying with the idea of adding this third option but I think that most people do want a bit of both proposals. I wanted to instead see which proposal's features should predominate in your ideal world.

[Cre47]

I like the skydiving wind tunnel thing from Devcore's proposal. The Rendez-vous proposal takes way too long I think compared to Devcore, whom they say some elements will be completed as early as next year.

[daud]

I voted Devcore-Lebreton Reimagined/Canadensis but of course the caveat is getting the senators so I voted based on them being able to secure a partnership with the Sens.

I really like both proposals-a lot! Devcore seems to have more tourist attractions and I do think most of them will work, especially Ripleys. They are creating a tourist and entertainment destination as well as a community. Its a bit all over the place, but I think that actually could be a good thing. Love the concept for the library. Want to learn more about this Canadian Communication Centre.

Rendez-Vous is a great proposal-I like the interaction with the aqueduct. Like the big building at Booth and Albert, like the Lebreton square, Canada drive

They are both good. Rendez-vous has a big piece in place-hockey but if we took that out of the equation, I lean to Devcore. I like the ownership group too-creative, deep pockets, some local roots.

Its a win either way...Its a good day for Ottawa..

[ars]

I like them both.

I also have concerns with both though.

My concerns with the Devcore bid is that there may be too many attractions for one location, they may need to pare that down a bit. And, of course, the fact that they currently lack an NHL team.

My concerns with the Rendezvous bid is that it's a bit sterile and boring compared to the Devcore bid.

Like I said in the other thread, if I absolutely had to choose one, I'd choose Rendezvous because of the Sens, but I would be happy with either as long as the Sens play in Lebreton.

[acottawa]

I think Devcore spent more on renderings, but I wonder about the viability of many of the proposals. At least I think rendezvous could deliver some key elements in the shorter term. Plus they have a hockey team ready to go.

[EdFromOttawa]

You'd be nuts not to vote for Devcore's proposal.

The Sens have the better proposed arena, but everything else is bland bland bland. Condos and roads, condos and roads. Not pedestrian friendly at all. At least Devcore went imaginative.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa

You'd be nuts not to vote for Devcore's proposal.

The Sens have the better proposed arena, but everything else is bland bland bland. Condos and roads, condos and roads. Not pedestrian friendly at all. At least Devcore went imaginative.

I find Devcore's is much, much, much less pedestrian friendly.

What's wrong with condos or roads? "Roads" - i.e. streets - are the principal realm of the pedestrian in a good pedestrian city.

[bikegypsy]

Originally Posted by daud

I voted Devcore-Lebreton Reimagined/Canadensis but of course the caveat is getting the senators so I voted based on them being able to secure a partnership with the Sens.

I really like both proposals-a lot! Devcore seems to have more tourist attractions and I do think most of them will work, especially Ripleys. They are creating a tourist and entertainment destination as well as a community. Its a bit all over the place, but I think that actually could be a good thing. Love the concept for the library. Want to learn more about this Canadian Communication Centre.

Rendez-Vous is a great proposal-I like the interaction with the aqueduct. Like the big building at Booth and Albert, like the Lebreton square, Canada drive

They are both good. Rendez-vous has a big piece in place-hockey but if we took that out of the equation, I lean to Devcore. I like the ownership group too-creative, deep pockets, some local roots.

Its a win either way...Its a good day for Ottawa..

Yep, I agree. Let's hope that the NCC manages not to fuck it up.

[FFX-ME]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I find Devcore's is much, much, much less pedestrian friendly.

What's wrong with condos or roads? "Roads" - i.e. streets - are the principal realm of the pedestrian in a good pedestrian city.

The issue is that it is unoriginal and exactly what Ottawa has tried and failed at Lebreton before. It hasn't worked, why would it work now.

[Horus]

While I prefer some of the public space detailed in the Devcore plan, I prefer more aspects of the IllumiNATION plan.

Specifically
- layout and location of the arena on Nepean Bay - nice visual, as well as central to both LRT stops and lines.
- The integration of the aqueduct to create a "Riverwalk"-esque feature.
- Better integration of the LRT line for both the Bayview and Pimisi stops. Also - to cover the LRT in that area is probably for the best, enabling additional use of that portion of the site. Additionally, I'd hope there is some true integration of the LRT stations into the designs and constructions, making access to and from the site as inviting as possible during all seasons.


My main complaint on the Devcore plan is the inclusion of an elementary school on the site. That seems like the wrong place to put that, in the midst of the other attractions.

[Multi-modal]

Damn, I voted wrong. I meant to vote IllumiNATION but voted for Re-Imagined.

Illumination clearly has a better planning. The biggest thing is the community between the Canal and the War Museum. Without that community you still have a loooong walk with no residential between Albert/Booth and the Zibi development. The community opposite the War Museum (Asticou??) ties it all together.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

The issue is that it is unoriginal and exactly what Ottawa has tried and failed at Lebreton before. It hasn't worked, why would it work now.

Streets are unoriginal, sure, but so are doorknobs and insulation.

The Devcore proposal will end up being like the Montreal Olympic Park: fantastic but visit-once-and-you're-good attractions set in a parkade-top park of pavement and grass. From the air, the plazas look exciting and enticing, but from human height, it's a treeless, wind-swept expanse which people run across to get to the next amusement park attraction. There's little everyday activity to insure activities on the 300+ days of the year when there isn't some special event. And even if you wanted to go, the sharp bifurcation of the LRT line makes it very difficult for those 2-3000 residents immediately south.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more the analogy with the Parc Olympique makes sense. And as someone who lives in Montreal, I can tell you that that is NOT a good thing.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Both proposals have really good elements. I like IllumiNATION's arena rooftop terrace, and consideration/amplification of sight lines for the area. They're layout is also the more practical one. However, I find that the Canadensis proposal has some better features, such as properly tying in the inlet, and making the aqueduct the focus. They seem to have a better grasp on ground level public interaction.

[FFX-ME]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Streets are unoriginal, sure, but so are doorknobs and insulation.

The Devcore proposal will end up being like the Montreal Olympic Park: fantastic but visit-once-and-you're-good attractions set in a parkade-top park of pavement and grass. From the air, the plazas look exciting and enticing, but from human height, it's a treeless, wind-swept expanse which people run across to get to the next amusement park attraction. There's little everyday activity to insure activities on the 300+ days of the year when there isn't some special event. And even if you wanted to go, the sharp bifurcation of the LRT line makes it very difficult for those 2-3000 residents immediately south.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more the analogy with the Parc Olympique makes sense. And as someone who lives in Montreal, I can tell you that that is NOT a good thing.

Ottawa needs the pazaz and excitement that Montreal once embodied. There are no attractions here. This is the only opportunity we will ever have to build meaningful attractions downtown. We don't need more condos, Ottawa is already reaching its capacity limit, what we need are attractions, reasons to get people here other than seeing a clock tower.

We already tried Rendez-vous project many times before...all those attempts failed. Time to move to something else.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

Ottawa needs the pazaz and excitement that Montreal once embodied. There are no attractions here. This is the only opportunity we will ever have to build meaningful attractions downtown. We don't need more condos, Ottawa is already reaching its capacity limit, what we need are attractions, reasons to get people here other than seeing a clock tower.

I don't know. The "attractions" have a definite 1950s Tomorrowland feel to them: an automotive pavilion from the Canadian Automobile Dealership association, a communications museum (using artifacts from the S&T Museum), a planetarium, a bandshell, and a few amusement rides. The aquarium is probably the only bona fide attraction in the group and that's still a pretty generic attraction. At least an arena gets a lot of people to the site on a regular basis, which drives the livelyhood of the whole area.

[Aylmer]

Montreal has pizzazz because there is a density of activity (shops, clubs, theatres and, most importantly, PEOPLE), not because of the insectarium or the wax museum. The reason you never go to Niagara Falls twice is because all their attractions are single-use: there are only so many times you can go behind the falls or see wax figures before it gets old. The reason you can go to Montreal every weekend is because it's a living breathing place where a hundred things can happen on a streetcorner in a single day. Attractions get old and fall out of fashion, but a good city street can be an endless and ever-changing spectacle.

And where have we tried this before? The only analogous projects I can think of are Zibi, Lansdowne and the Oblate's lands and they're all selling extraordinarily well. And the other, older main streets and vibrant pockets of town (the Market, Bank St, Richmond, etc.) all seem to be much more popular than, say, the Kanata Wave Pool, despite their obvious lack of scheduled, fun activities.

[ars]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Montreal has pizzazz because there is a density of activity (shops, clubs, theatres and, most importantly, PEOPLE), not because of the insectarium or the wax museum. The reason you never go to Niagara Falls twice is because all their attractions are single-use: there are only so many times you can go behind the falls or see wax figures before it gets old. The reason you can go to Montreal every weekend is because it's a living breathing place where a hundred things can happen on a streetcorner in a single day. Attractions get old and fall out of fashion, but a good city street can be an endless and ever-changing spectacle.

And where have we tried this before? The only analogous projects I can think of are Zibi, Lansdowne and the Oblate's lands and they're all selling extraordinarily well. And the other, older main streets and vibrant pockets of town (the Market, Bank St, Richmond, etc.) all seem to be much more popular than, say, the Kanata Wave Pool, despite their obvious lack of scheduled, fun activities.

100% agree with you. Stuff happening on the street(buskers, performances, local artists selling art and souvenirs etc.) is what makes Montreal feel alive and fun compared to other cities, not the single-visit attractions. There's no reason why that can't happen in Ottawa no matter which bid wins, the culture just needs to be established.

[TheGoods]

I would be happy with either as long as the Sens play downtown. It seems that there is a process in place to negotiate with the winning bidder and would hope that once a bidder is chosen that the NCC can make changes to allow items that were high on the wish list from the previous bid.