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  #1  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2017, 4:01 AM
CaliNative CaliNative is offline
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Greatest City Rivalries? How do they start? Why do they continue?

NYC-Boston. NYC-Chicago. LA-SF. Miami-Tampa. Philly-Pittsburgh. Dallas-Houston. St.L-K.C. Memphis-Nashville. Toronto-Montreal. Seattle-Portland. OKC-Tulsa. Cleveland-Cincinatti. Berlin-Munich. Moscow-St. Petersburg. Rome-Milan. Madrid-Barcelona. Rio-Sao Paulo. Glasgow-Edinburgh. Cape Town-Johannasburg etc. etc. Have I left any out?

I believe many start because an upstart (like LA or Sao Paulo or K.C.) comes along and tries to take the crown from an older primary city (SF or Rio or St. Louis). The older city gets resentful. I think city rivalries are a good thing, and inspire the cities to improve to keep up with the rivals. Some are sports based. Boston-NYC comes to mind, since NYC is so much bigger (although Boston has arguably the better universities).

This thread is NOT intended to be a "city-vs city" thing. I just want to understand the origin of rivalries. Economic? Sports related? Envy?

Last edited by CaliNative; Jul 30, 2017 at 10:40 PM.
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  #2  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2017, 4:06 AM
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Chicago vs st. Louis.

Oldest rivalry in MLB.

Fuck the cardinals.





Chicago vs. Green Bay

Oldest rivalry in the NFL.

Fuck the packers.
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  #3  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2017, 4:17 AM
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boise idaho and bend oregon? maybe sometime in the future
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  #4  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2017, 4:21 AM
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Unless we're playing The Penguins the city of Pittsburgh might as well be Ulan Bator to most Philadelphians.
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  #5  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2017, 4:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliNative View Post
NYC-Boston. NYC-Chicago. LA-SF. Miami-Tampa. Philly-Pittsburgh. Dallas-Houston. St.L-K.C. Memphis-Nashville. Toronto-Montreal. Seattle-Portland. OKC-Tulsa. Cleveland-Cincinatti. Berlin-Munich. Moscow-St. Petersburg. Rome-Milan. Madrid-Barcelona. Rio-Sao Paulo. Glasgow-Edinburg. Cape Town-Johanasburg etc. etc. Have I left any out?

I believe many start because an upstart (like LA or Sao Paulo or K.C.) comes along and tries to take the crown from an older primary city (SF or Rio or St. Louis). The older city gets resentful. I think city rivalries are a good thing, and inspire the cities to improve to keep up with the rivals. Some are sports based. Boston-NYC comes to mind, since NYC is so much bigger (although Boston has arguably the better universities).

This thread is NOT intended to be a "city-vs city" thing. I just want to understand the origin of rivalries. Economic? Sports related? Envy?
London and Paris? London and New York? Tokyo and Hong Kong? Mumbai and Delhi?
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  #6  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2017, 5:10 AM
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boise idaho and bend oregon? maybe sometime in the future
I'd be astonished if that were a real rivalry. Two very different places and different sizes. Maybe Boise vs. Spokane.
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  #7  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2017, 5:11 AM
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Seattle-Portland-Vancouver.

We're off by ourselves and act like siblings in many ways. Each is better than the others in various ways.
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  #8  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2017, 5:17 AM
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Originally Posted by volguus zildrohar View Post
Unless we're playing The Penguins the city of Pittsburgh might as well be Ulan Bator to most Philadelphians.
I didn't know that. I just assumed they were rivals. Assume nothing I guess. What are rivals to Philly? NYC was the old colonial rival I guess. Philly was larger until well into the 19th century. Then the Erie canal gave NYC something of an advantage in trade with the trans-Appalachian region. Philadelphia is a wonderful city.
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  #9  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2017, 11:30 AM
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I didn't know that. I just assumed they were rivals. Assume nothing I guess. What are rivals to Philly? NYC was the old colonial rival I guess. Philly was larger until well into the 19th century. Then the Erie canal gave NYC something of an advantage in trade with the trans-Appalachian region. Philadelphia is a wonderful city.
NYC is really the only one, and at times it's a rivalry in a hammer and nail sense, and I say that as a lifelong Philadelphian who loves his city and who couldn't imagine living in NYC.
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  #10  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2017, 1:11 PM
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There's been a rivalry between Philly and NY in regards to football. Eagles vs Giants.

I believe it's one of the oldest rivalries too.

AND they are always fighting in public. But its expected, as the Eagles cheat, AND, that the Giants are clearly a superior team.
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  #11  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2017, 1:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
Chicago vs st. Louis.

Oldest rivalry in MLB.

Fuck the cardinals.





Chicago vs. Green Bay

Oldest rivalry in the NFL.

Fuck the packers.
even that rivalry was based on the old chicago-st louis rivalry. it was the closest thing to an old world city-state war so far as i can tell - we were running armored riverboats into the footings of rail bridges that chicago interests were spanning over the river north of us. even though st. louis was firmly thrashed by chicago in the 19th century, the civic rivalry (at least on the st. louis end) persisted for years as st. louis (purportedly) boasted higher per capita wealth (or whatever other straws could be grasped) etc and still saw itself as the more "civilized" until the city started really declining after the 1920s. theres still kind of a
humored antipathy towards chicago like the civic equivalent of mooning barbarians or whatever. and then we go stay in your hotels.

i lived in kc for a couple of years and the rivalry is tilted towards kc looking at st. louis. in st. louis, talk of kc is really limited to the fact that its a nice city, and its almost entirely a positive reaction. theres not much of a rivalry looking west. now, maybe bring up cincinnati and you get furrowed brows and "hmmm." some old thing. i suppose in the future kc will jab st. louis enough with better population growth and economics and the rivalry will become real but for now we are still living in a different, older world in some ways than kc as we sit on an overgrown stoop squinting towards a distant east through the dust, heat and smoke of the mississippi valley.

there is also the matter of st. louis basically having founded kansas city as its economic satellite...can ones child be a true rival? i suppose so.
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Last edited by Centropolis; Jul 30, 2017 at 4:31 PM.
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  #12  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2017, 4:15 PM
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For sports I'd say the main nemesis from a Montreal POV would be the Bruins, not Leafs.
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  #13  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2017, 4:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays View Post
Seattle-Portland-Vancouver.

We're off by ourselves and act like siblings in many ways. Each is better than the others in various ways.
A long time ago I went to the "Underground Seattle" tour. The bubbly tour guide asked us what we thought Seattle's big rival was and people yelled "Portland!" and "Vancouver!". His answer was Tacoma. Maybe this was the case back in the late 19th century, when the race was a bit more even, but I remember thinking that this was like saying that New York City's rival is Newark, NJ.
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  #14  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2017, 4:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays View Post
I'd be astonished if that were a real rivalry. Two very different places and different sizes. Maybe Boise vs. Spokane.
They are both in between the Rocky Mountains and cascade mountains, like next to each other. Both growing fast. Bend is more rich and smaller though.
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  #15  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2017, 6:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
There's been a rivalry between Philly and NY in regards to football. Eagles vs Giants.

I believe it's one of the oldest rivalries too.

AND they are always fighting in public. But its expected, as the Eagles cheat, AND, that the Giants are clearly a superior team.
We love you too.

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  #16  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2017, 6:44 PM
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Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
A long time ago I went to the "Underground Seattle" tour. The bubbly tour guide asked us what we thought Seattle's big rival was and people yelled "Portland!" and "Vancouver!". His answer was Tacoma. Maybe this was the case back in the late 19th century, when the race was a bit more even, but I remember thinking that this was like saying that New York City's rival is Newark, NJ.
In 1890, sure. But at some point Seattle cruised right by. Tacoma was winning until around that time(?) Seattle leaders built a train line across the Cascades, which pretty much cemented things. These days, Tacoma has its pluses, but when its economic pieces get big enough they often move to Seattle -- the HQs of Weyerhaeuser and Russell Investments, the UPS Law School, and so on. In some ways it functions like its own city, but really it's been part the Seattle area for several decades.

---

Regarding the other comparisons like Vancouver and Portland, I doubt ancient history has much to do with it. More like a pissing contest by some, and a useful comparison for what their own city lacks for others.
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  #17  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2017, 8:28 PM
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Are we talking sports rivals only? Boston is not a NYC rival except for Red Sox-Yankees (and maybe Jets-Pats a bit, but you can't have a real rivalry when one team sucks).

Boston, to New Yorkers, is a nice nearby city that people like visiting and sending their kids to university. New Yorkers very much like Boston.

Chicago isn't a rival either. It isn't even a sports rival. It's considered a big, important American city, but not a specific rival.
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  #18  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2017, 9:33 PM
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^^^

Remember the 2000 World Series between the Mets and Yankees. Good times!

There's big rivalries in NY between teams. Call it borough rivalries.

In Hockey, the Devils vs the Rangers (NJ vs NY). I'm for the Rangers, and those Devil's fans sure are rowdy. Always peeing on the NJ Transit trains. Leaving vomit in the bathroom stalls after a game.
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  #19  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2017, 9:50 PM
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Cities can be rivals even if one is larger and/or more globally important than the other. Not only in sports but in things like cuisine, pizza, who has the hottest women, who has the best nightlife, better cityscape, happier people, which is more beautiful, etc etc.

The Chicago-NY rivalry lives in, for example because even though NY is clearly the more important city, some things that Chicago has going well for it can't help but rile up the "Rah rah rah we're #1!" crowd among New Yorkers.

Same would go with countless other city rivalries
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  #20  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2017, 2:21 AM
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Kapuskasing and Kuala Lumpur. Been at each others' necks for decades.
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