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Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 4:41 AM
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Anglo-Canadians closer to the modern UK or French Canadians to modern France?

In terms of not just ancestry or language, but actual ties to the current, modern existing countries of the UK and France? Whether the ties are political, media, pop culture, physical travel or tourism, immigrating, emigrating or visiting families.

On the one hand, Anglo-Canada mostly focuses its gaze, its media and its travels on the US not on Britain itself (except for things like the Royal Family, the BBC which aren't super prominent in Canada over other Anglo nations anyways), but then again, French Canada going back to the separation of Quebec and Acadia from the old country, has diverged as much as Americans and British have from one another. Any re-vitalized links are pretty recent anyways between France and Quebec/French Canada.
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Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 4:50 AM
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The term "Anglo" in Canada seems to mean anyone in Canada who is not French Canadian, so the answer would be obvious. Anglo Canadians would not typically be closer to modern day UK because they are from many different ethnicities.
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Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 5:06 AM
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All of Canada is more North American than European.

The extent to which European proximity matters varies from place to place.

The average English-speaker in Toronto is probably not going to be especially connected to the United Kingdom, and those who are may be connected it through their Indian heritage and cricket as much as anything else.

Quebec is probably the most uniformly close to Europe for linguistic reasons. It's the closest reasonable linguistic peer.

Here the British connection is still very strong. All of us have grandparents who drove on the left. Mrs. Brown's Boys is our equivalent of The Office in terms of which sections of society talks about it and how often. Coronation Street is, by far, the most popular non-news television program in Newfoundland. We eat pease pudding. The entire coastline of Newfoundland is alight on Guy Fawkes night. We have a military parade for Battle of Britain Day. Officially, we call it Armistice Day, not Remembrance Day. There are large British imports sections in the groceries. Even cardboard cutouts of the Queen to pose with:



So you can feel an institutional, conscious connection to England - but it's forced, it's tradition. It's not effortless, it's not contemporary. That unthinking, soul-to-soul connection is with Ireland. There isn't an accent or word here you can't find there. Our faces and surnames and folk songs and cuisine and music and sense of humour and emphasis on education and resentment and the diaspora... it's all identical. You can check just about any video from or about Newfoundland and at least one comment will be from an Irish person expressing amazement at how similar it all is.

Irish Times: The most Irish island in the world
The residents of Newfoundland don’t like being called ‘Newfies’ or Canadians, but you can call them Irish.
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-...orld-1.1538579

So, short answer is a flat, easy "NO!". But within that minority of European influence, some places have it strongly, others don't have it at all unless you keep it as foundational and shallow as "forks", "English", "voting", etc.
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Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 7:00 AM
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They're both as foreign to Canadians as any other country regardless of what language we speak. We have as strong ties to France and the UK as other western countries would have. Canada may have British/French roots but those links eroded a very long time ago.
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Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 7:16 AM
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I personally feel a pretty close connection to England, but that's because my mom's family is from there. She only immigrated as a 10 year old.

Other than that I am into pretty much any global stuff. My current music playlist now has Canadian, American, British, Australian, French and South African stuff on it.
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Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 7:58 AM
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BC has some strong British ties still, compared to Alberta I find most people there have Ukranian ties.

I think people from France look at the french from Quebec as backwater hillbillies.
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Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
I think people from France look at the french from Quebec as backwater hillbillies.
That was somewhat true up until maybe a decade or so ago, but things have changed rapidly, in both directions. There is an even stronger shared culture now between the two, especially with the young generation. Virtually every francophone Quebecer 30 and under has been to university with French classmates, especially in Montreal and Quebec City.

I am French, but grew up sort of on the outskirts of the colonial empire, if you will. I regularly find that my born-and-raised québécois friends have more of a handle on French culture (pop culture especially) than I do.

In the other direction, Quebec and especially Montreal are currently enjoying an unprecedented level of hype in France. Anecdotically, both my younger cousins tell me virtually every classmate of theirs wanted to come here for university. One of my cousins did move here eventually, and about a dozen of her friends have come to visit in the past year, each prospecting for ways to find a job and settle here. It’s a really big thing nowadays.
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Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
BC has some strong British ties still, compared to Alberta I find most people there have Ukranian ties.

I think people from France look at the french from Quebec as backwater hillbillies.
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Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 12:57 PM
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With 150,000 French nationals living in Montréal, I don't think we're seen as backwater hillbilies anymore. Just this summer, I've work with a guy from south-western France and a guy from Toulouse. They both want to stay here. They both have family members who were born here. the 2nd generation have a perfect Québécois accent.

Paris/Charles De Gaulle to Montréal/Trudeau is the 7th most busiest route between an airport in Europe and outside Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ger_air_routes
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Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 2:14 PM
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I could have predicted several weeks ago that this thread would show up here started by Capsicum!
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Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 3:31 PM
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Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post

I think people from France look at the french from Quebec as backwater hillbillies.
Isn’t it a cliche that pleases Quebec bashers in English Canada? I have many friends and collegues from France and I travel there often and I have never felt that kind of extreme prejudices. Hillbillies ? Really ? Frenchs are not that dumb.
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Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 3:50 PM
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When Canada was a French colony, France was still a monarchy. French Canadians did not share the experience of the French Revolution which shapes much the structure of modern society in France today. Quebec's evolution is framed uniquely in a Canadian/North American context, not in a European one as some "anglos" might think.
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Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 4:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
BC has some strong British ties still, compared to Alberta I find most people there have Ukranian ties.

I think people from France look at the french from Quebec as backwater hillbillies.
I have lived and visited some places in the ROC that have some strong ties to Alabama.

Everything is relative.
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Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 4:40 PM
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I would say that English Canada is firmly rooted in the greater anglosphere, with the USA at the top, mostly due to proximity and relative size, as well as the strength of their entertainment industry.

There are however strong residual ties to Great Britain, mostly institutional and traditional, especially in the Maritimes and Newfoundland. This influence can't be ignored and pushes Canada slightly into the mid Atlantic rather than being absolutely North American.

In some ways, this push seems a bit stronger over the last decade or so, especially given the gradual loosening of family ties to the USA, and disdain over the extremist nature of American politics.

FWIW, I have been in a number of cities in the UK and the USA. In general, I felt more comfortable in many ways in London and Edinburgh than I did in Washington and New York.
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Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 4:51 PM
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^^ Having lived in the Maritimes for 20 years, the UK has a far greater pull than it does in Quebec, Ontario, or the West. The Maritimes is heavily of anglo-saxon stock so it makes sense. In Toronto, it's just another country although the national media seems to be obsessed with the UK. They're totally out of step with most Canadians but oblivious to it all. I wasn't interested in what Ms. Markle's favourite bra is so I stopped watching 'Canadian' news networks almost entirely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by big T View Post
That was somewhat true up until maybe a decade or so ago, but things have changed rapidly, in both directions. There is an even stronger shared culture now between the two, especially with the young generation. Virtually every francophone Quebecer 30 and under has been to university with French classmates, especially in Montreal and Quebec City.

I am French, but grew up sort of on the outskirts of the colonial empire, if you will. I regularly find that my born-and-raised québécois friends have more of a handle on French culture (pop culture especially) than I do.

In the other direction, Quebec and especially Montreal are currently enjoying an unprecedented level of hype in France. Anecdotically, both my younger cousins tell me virtually every classmate of theirs wanted to come here for university. One of my cousins did move here eventually, and about a dozen of her friends have come to visit in the past year, each prospecting for ways to find a job and settle here. It’s a really big thing nowadays.
That's nice to hear. Quebec winter has long been a big negative in the eyes of the French. It seems they're finally looking past it. I've always understand the lure of Canada being an immigrant myself.

Canadian culture is rudderless in a sense. It's far less rigid than the culture in Europe so for many Canada is a very liberating experience. I'm from the UK originally. When I first moved here I found the culture fascinating and unnerving at the same time. There didn't seem to be any rules/accepted conventions about anything (compared to what I was used to). After a while I got over my unease and embraced it. For the French, they likely encounter the same feelings that I did. Some Europeans, of course, are horrified by it and head back across the pond within the year.

A final point. Quebec's strong economy and booming tech sector are probably accelerating the flow of people to that province. Does Quebec's economy get a lot of press in France?
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Last edited by isaidso; Dec 16, 2017 at 5:43 PM.
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Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 5:42 PM
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My part of Vancouver is not "anglo" let alone close to the UK. Close to China, absolutely, most of my co-workers just moved from either China, Philippines or India. Mandarin is the most common language at work by far, followed by Tagalog, then English.
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Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 5:48 PM
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I would think that Quebec has more ties to France than English Canada to the UK simply because France is the dominant cultural, geopolitical and economic powerhouse of the French-speaking world and the UK is no longer that for the English-speaking world.

Also, despite its size difference, I think Quebec may have more weight in the French-speaking world than English Canada does in the English-speaking world. Again, this is not because English Canada is a cultural backwater, but because the "First World Francophonie" is relatively small: France (and her overseas depts), Quebec + Francophone ROC, Wallonia, French Switzerland (combined population 75 million).
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Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 5:52 PM
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I lived in a village in the south of France for eight months the year before last. I remember meeting one of the neighbors who had a Canadian connection. His late father had worked for the CBC/Radio Canada bureau in Paris. He assumed on first meeting that I was American. I corrected him, saying, “I’m Canadian but not French Canadian, as you can hear.”

“Yes,” he replied. “I can hear. You ...”. And then he paused for a moment. I am pretty sure he was going to say, “your French is awful,” or “your accent is appalling” or something like that. But he obviously didn’t think that would be polite so he shifted very quickly to “You don’t say ‘Tabernac’ all the time!” So there’s at least one stereotype still at work!

An aside. One day we stepped out our back door and passed a couple of women working on preparation for the Christmas Crèche which was a very big deal in the village. One said to the other in French, “These are the idiot Americans who are renting the house.” I replied also in French,”We’re not idiot Americans. We’re idiot Canadians!” She looked very embarrassed and was positively friendly after that.

Back to the main topic, I still feel a strong connection to the UK because I attended an English university. It is, if course, personal but not all that uncommon. I know a number of Canadians who did the same.
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Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 6:39 PM
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Quebec winter has long been a big negative in the eyes of the French.
Yes, in France, snow isn't really much of a long term occurrence where people live. In the mountains there is snow but not huge populations.

Last Christmas we were in Nice, France. A few days before Christmas itself we rented a car to go to a ski resort in the Alps. The initially standoffish lady at the car rental couldn't fathom anyone living in Canada. Her boyfriend had lived in Montreal for a year and had loved it and she visited him at Christmas time and basically stayed indoors all the time.

Stereotypical french moment. The car rental place opens at 9 am. My son and I show up at about 8:50 and the shutters are down and no sign of life inside. My son was with me if there were language issues as my french isn't perfect. At 8:59 the one person working at the car rental place shows up via one of those scooter things that looks like a skateboard with a folding handlebars.

https://target.scene7.com/is/image/T...=520&fmt=pjpeg

She rushes inside, lets us in, starts getting espresso ready and then comes out of the back office a few minutes later with an espresso and croissants for us.
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Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 6:42 PM
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I personally feel a pretty close connection to England, but that's because my mom's family is from there. She only immigrated as a 10 year old.

Other than that I am into pretty much any global stuff. My current music playlist now has Canadian, American, British, Australian, French and South African stuff on it.
I came myself at that age from the UK with my parents. Even though I came as a child my sense of humour and sports interest is firmly based there. Playlist is all over as I think to consider that UK music is the best is a bit of a fallacy as the UK is where Simon Cowell and his assembly line approach to music came from along with a whole host of annoying boy/girl bands.
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