HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2011, 11:59 PM
Markitect Markitect is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 1,491
Cool MILWAUKEE | Downtown Streetcar

For the past couple of years, Milwaukee has been working on a modern streetcar proposal that would link Downtown to nearby neighborhoods (Historic Third Ward to the south, Lower East Side to the northeast). Today the Common Council voted in favor of advancing the proposal to the final engineering stage.



This map showing the proposed route and how it relates to adjacent activity generators was cropped from the Public Meeting Displays (PDF link) that were shown at a recent public information open house.

Initial Route (Phase 1)

Length: 2.1 miles, running from Milwaukee Intermodal Station (Amtrak, Greyhound, and other regional and intercity bus services), through the Historic Third Ward, up through the central business district, to the dense residential areas in the northeastern section of Downtown.

Estimated Construction cost: $64.6 million, including vehicle acquisition, maintenance facility, trackwork, etc. Does not include utility relocation costs, which are still being worked out.

Proposed Funding: $54.9 million from Federal transit money already granted to Milwaukee, plus $9.7 million from local tax-increment financing.

Estimated Operating Cost: $2.65 million/year, proposed to be covered by fares (single rides, daily/weekly/monthly/yearly passes), parking fees, and advertising/sponsorship revenue.

Route Extensions (Phase 2)

Two extensions are also proposed, and could be built in conjunction with the Initial Route if more Federal funding is secured in the near future (two previous attempts in the past couple of years were unsuccessful). One extension would run to the Pabst brewery (redevelopment already in progress) via 4th Street and Juneau Avenue, passing major activity centers like the downtown shopping mall, convention center, sports arena, and Park East Freeway redevelopment site (awaiting development proposals). A second extension would run up through the high-density residential neighborhoods on the Lower East Side. The combined estimated construction cost for these extensions is $40.2 million, and an additional $2.24 million for operating costs.


The final engineering stage is expected to be completed by Fall 2012, and construction could begin soon after. Streetcar operations are anticipated to start in Fall 2014.


Here are some links:

Milwaukee Streetcar Project Website - More information about design, costs, economic development potential.

Part 1 - Milwaukee Streetcar DRAFT Environmental Assessment (link to PDF)

Part 2- Milwaukee Streetcar DRAFT Environmental Assessment (link to PDF)

Milwaukee streetcar plan on track for passage (Journal Sentinel article from July 14, 2011)

Milwaukee aldermen approve downtown streetcar line (JS article from July 26, 2011)

Milwaukee streetcar approval comes with spending safeguards (Business Journal article from July 26, 2011)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2011, 12:11 AM
UrbanImpressionist's Avatar
UrbanImpressionist UrbanImpressionist is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Born and raised Clevelander, former Atlantan and Dallasite, and now 'probational' New Yorker, ha
Posts: 205
Cool city and plan!

It's impossible to see the keypoints of the city but from this visitor I would say musts should include access close to these tourist points:
  1. Miller Brewing Co.
  2. Brewers Stadium
  3. Harley Museum
  4. Grohmann Museum - Man at Work Art Collection
  5. Aloft
Looks like they do except for the Miller Brewing Co. no?
__________________
R. J. Vojir - Cityscape Oil Painter

www.UrbanImpressionist.com ______ Twitter: @UrbanImpress ______ UrbanImpressionist on Facebook______ UrbanImpressionist on Youtube
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2011, 1:25 AM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
atomic
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 11,893
I hate these stupid tourist-oriented proposals. The second phase should extend north to UWM and west to Marquette to give the streetcar a year-round ridership.
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2011, 1:38 AM
Markitect Markitect is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 1,491
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanImpressionist View Post
Cool city and plan!

It's impossible to see the keypoints of the city but from this visitor I would say musts should include access close to these tourist points:
  1. Miller Brewing Co.
  2. Brewers Stadium
  3. Harley Museum
  4. Grohmann Museum - Man at Work Art Collection
  5. Aloft
Looks like they do except for the Miller Brewing Co. no?
Something to keep in mind is that this proposal is just a starter line. There just isn't enough money to route a streetcar line to hit every neighborhood and every attraction all across town right from the start. That means places like Miller Brewing and the baseball stadium, which are nearly 2 miles outside of Downtown, are too far away for a streetcar line right now. Perhaps in later phases, though, it'll be possible.

Ideally, the first complete streetcar "spoke" ought to be a continuation of the line up through the East Side to hit UW-Milwaukee. That part of town already has some of the highest bus ridership and highest densities in the city...it's a natural candidate for a complete upgrade/replacement to streetcar, and would certainly be successful.

Places like the Harley Davidson Museum, the Aloft hotel, or the art museum at Milwaukee School of Engineering are all within a few blocks of the proposed routes, easy walking distance in each case.


As proposed, with the Initial Route and two Route Extensions :

100% of Downtown hotel rooms
91% of Downtown occupied first-floor retail and commercial spaces
90% of occupied office space
77% of Downtown housing units
70% of Downtown public parking facilities

would be within a one-quarter mile walk of the streetcar line.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2011, 1:52 AM
Markitect Markitect is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 1,491
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
I hate these stupid tourist-oriented proposals. The second phase should extend north to UWM and west to Marquette to give the streetcar a year-round ridership.
Actually, this is the least tourist-oriented proposal we've had.

Previous proposals called for a Menomonee Valley streetcar line, linking the baseball stadium and the lakefront festival grounds, passing the casino in the middle. That one didn't even go to Downtown or any residential neighborhoods.

Another proposal called for just a loop through Downtown, just a few blocks' diameter. Didn't hit any residential areas at all.

This proposal does a pretty good job of balancing a route though high density residential areas, high density employment areas, and high redevelopment potential areas. One of the more common criticisms vocalized for this proposal is that it doesn't serve tourist destinations (lakefront museums and festival grounds, baseball stadium, theater district, etc.).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2014, 7:31 AM
mbradleyc's Avatar
mbradleyc mbradleyc is offline
We be jammin'
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 55
__________________
Arena, streetcar and the Couture. Make the talking heads explode!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2014, 5:21 PM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is offline
Exhale solutions.
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Spaceship Earth
Posts: 3,916
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbradleyc View Post
I really hope Milwaukee can pull this off without the anti's derailing it. Milwaukee's seems like one of the better streetcar proposals nationwide, probably more potential than even Cincinnati.
__________________
You slip me the cash and I'll slip you the wiener.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2014, 8:47 PM
eleven=11 eleven=11 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 812
Nice plan good luck dealing with the anti's
i think that Cincinnati's has more potential thou......
are the Bucks getting a new arena??
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2014, 9:32 PM
mbradleyc's Avatar
mbradleyc mbradleyc is offline
We be jammin'
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by eleven=11 View Post
Nice plan good luck dealing with the anti's
i think that Cincinnati's has more potential thou......
are the Bucks getting a new arena??
I'm confident they will. The financing is nearly in place from the various owners and there have been enough imaginative ideas for a public portion that I don't see that as an issue. It shouldn't be all that much.

The site will be chosen/announced by the end of the month or so and once that's done they will be drawing up the design, which I'm sure is already started. A solid cost figure sometime after will let all the pieces come together. I fully expect demolition/construction to be well underway a year from now.
__________________
Arena, streetcar and the Couture. Make the talking heads explode!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2014, 9:34 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,764
I'm a big time Milwaukee booster, but can someone please explain to me how a Streetcar is even remotely better than a bus?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2014, 10:10 PM
Nouvellecosse's Avatar
Nouvellecosse Nouvellecosse is offline
As seen on SSC ;)
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 4,921
^ Has a much smoother, quieter, nicer ride causing people to like them better and attracts riders, more energy efficient, can be made longer enabling it to carry more people, and if you want a dedicated transit lane, it takes less road space with a streetcar since the lane can be narrow due to the rails keeping it in place. Also streetcars last longer.
__________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2014, 1:09 AM
mbradleyc's Avatar
mbradleyc mbradleyc is offline
We be jammin'
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 55
The permanence of the route is a selling point for real estate development. Knowing that there will always be a streetcar stop out in front of a building that will take you right to someplace to shop or work or the lakefront, Summerfest, the arena etc. will be an amenity.
__________________
Arena, streetcar and the Couture. Make the talking heads explode!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2014, 1:23 AM
N830MH N830MH is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,562
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbradleyc View Post
The permanence of the route is a selling point for real estate development. Knowing that there will always be a streetcar stop out in front of a building that will take you right to someplace to shop or work or the lakefront, Summerfest, the arena etc. will be an amenity.
And also, Milwaukee Brewers (Miller Park), as well.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2014, 7:35 PM
TopZ TopZ is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by N830MH View Post
And also, Milwaukee Brewers (Miller Park), as well.
Unfortunately, Miller Park is probably just too far away. UWM is as well (even though it is on the map).

Streetcars are slow-ish and have many stops. It might take 40 minutes to go from downtown to Miller Park or UWM. Too long to be useful. You need a heavier system for that.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2014, 10:43 PM
zilfondel zilfondel is offline
Submarine de Nucléar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Portland
Posts: 4,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopZ View Post
Unfortunately, Miller Park is probably just too far away. UWM is as well (even though it is on the map).

Streetcars are slow-ish and have many stops. It might take 40 minutes to go from downtown to Miller Park or UWM. Too long to be useful. You need a heavier system for that.
I disagree. It depends on how many stops you put on the line. Anyways, even with Portland's very close stop spacing, you get a lot of people riding the line to interim destinations. 40 minutes on public transport really isn't that long.
__________________
Portland Bike Bridge traffic:

2009 - 15,749 | 2010 - 17,576 | 2011 - 18,257 | 2012 - 18,794
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2014, 1:05 AM
mbradleyc's Avatar
mbradleyc mbradleyc is offline
We be jammin'
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopZ View Post
Unfortunately, Miller Park is probably just too far away. UWM is as well (even though it is on the map).

Streetcars are slow-ish and have many stops. It might take 40 minutes to go from downtown to Miller Park or UWM. Too long to be useful. You need a heavier system for that.
Actually if they run it on Canal Street all the way to Miller Park it won't have many stops. There just aren't a lot of destinations, especially west of the casino. It could be a limited run for game days.

That would be expensive for such a limited value though and they already run game day shuttle buses. Maybe Potawatomi and the Brewers could pitch in some money.
__________________
Arena, streetcar and the Couture. Make the talking heads explode!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2015, 4:12 PM
Steely Dan's Avatar
Steely Dan Steely Dan is offline
born again cyclist
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Old Style City
Posts: 16,318
well, after a long and contentious political battle, the milwaukee streetcar downtown starter line has FINALLY been passed by the milwaukee city council, paving the way for the long planned line to finally move forward.

ground breaking on the line is now expected to start by the end of this year with service on the new line beginning in 2018.

it's a brand new day for rail transit in milwaukee!




Quote:
Milwaukee council OKs streetcar plan
By Crocker Stephenson of the Journal Sentinel Updated: 9:54 a.m.

A streetcar connecting the Milwaukee Intermodal Station with the city's lower east side was approved by the Common Council Tuesday, bringing to a pause at least decades of sometimes acrimonious debate.

The council approved, on 9-6 vote, a measure that established the project's $124 million capital budget, its estimated $3.2 million operating and maintenance budget and its 2.5 mile route, which includes a lakefront spur connecting the line to the proposed $122 million, 44-story Couture.

The council, by the same margin, also agreed to create a new tax incremental financing district at the east end of Michigan that would generate $31 million and to amend a TIF district on E. Erie St. that would generate another $18.3 million.
full article: http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwauk...291390051.html
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #18  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2015, 5:13 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
The City
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Libertyville, IL
Posts: 12,005
^ Awesome! Chicago's little brother gets non-bus transit!

Let urbanism in the Great Lakes region continue to spread....
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #19  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2015, 5:21 PM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is offline
Exhale solutions.
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Spaceship Earth
Posts: 3,916
Great news!!!
__________________
You slip me the cash and I'll slip you the wiener.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #20  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2015, 8:04 PM
N830MH N830MH is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,562
Finally!!! Long overdue!!!
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 6:50 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.