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  #4081  
Old Posted: Feb 9, 2012, 9:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
Too bad all the airlines based out of Vancouver failed...sigh....

The biggest loss was when Canadian was taken over by Air Canada. However, there are other factors, too. One is geographic location. Other than a stop for long-haul Pacific flights, Vancouver, being where it is, has a rather small catchment area. Calgary is more centrally located, and Toronto has a great location as a gateway not only to Canada, but to North America.

Also, (maybe it's the "freedom-loving" Prairie tradition), but stuffy Air Canada could never match WJ for in-flight service; one of the two reasons WJ is popular, (the other being lower fares).

I'd love to see a successful airline, similar perhaps to WJ, based out of Vancouver, but as WJ already has a tight grip on Canada and the North American market, such a hypothetical airline would, I imagine, need to concentrate on overseas services, and I don't think the Vancouver market is big enough or economically important enough to warrant that. Not for years to come, anyway.
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  #4082  
Old Posted: Feb 9, 2012, 3:14 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deasine View Post
Much agreed. SFO is my airport of choice when transferring in the States for that reason.
Could you elaborate on this? I mean, if you're flying out of Vancouver, you are essentially on a US domestic flight to any US Airport, correct? Does SFO have a leg up over other airports somehow?

Excuse my ignorance on this.
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  #4083  
Old Posted: Feb 9, 2012, 3:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trofirhen View Post
I'd love to see a successful airline, similar perhaps to WJ, based out of Vancouver, but as WJ already has a tight grip on Canada and the North American market, such a hypothetical airline would, I imagine, need to concentrate on overseas services, and I don't think the Vancouver market is big enough or economically important enough to warrant that. Not for years to come, anyway.
I have to agree. Vancouver is predominantly a VFR/tourist market (and even tourist numbers were down this year particularly on the international front) so it's not a logical place to base an airline out of. Alberta has the lowest taxes in the country, so even though Calgary is technically a smaller market, it makes sense from a tax perspective to base an airline there (don't forget that Canadian Airlines had their corporate head office in Calgary too).
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  #4084  
Old Posted: Feb 9, 2012, 3:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trofirhen View Post

The biggest loss was when Canadian was taken over by Air Canada. However, there are other factors, too. One is geographic location. Other than a stop for long-haul Pacific flights, Vancouver, being where it is, has a rather small catchment area. Calgary is more centrally located, and Toronto has a great location as a gateway not only to Canada, but to North America.

Also, (maybe it's the "freedom-loving" Prairie tradition), but stuffy Air Canada could never match WJ for in-flight service; one of the two reasons WJ is popular, (the other being lower fares).

I'd love to see a successful airline, similar perhaps to WJ, based out of Vancouver, but as WJ already has a tight grip on Canada and the North American market, such a hypothetical airline would, I imagine, need to concentrate on overseas services, and I don't think the Vancouver market is big enough or economically important enough to warrant that. Not for years to come, anyway.
Central to what? Calgary doesn't really have an advantage geographically over vancouver either, it may be more in the middle of the continent but it isnt close to anything. I can't think of very many situations where it is more convenient to transfer in Calgary unless you live in saskatoon or Edmonton, and those are hardly going to wrest control from Vancouver.

Bottom line is vancouver is an AC hub but Calgary is THE Westjet hub, so it will draw flights due to that, not due to any geographic advantages. I am not so worried about YVRs competitiveness with YYC, as they don't really compete as much as you would think. YVR will always have the dominant position on trans-pacific flights and trans atlantic flights will be difficult for YYC to draw as it is such a small pop base. Look at YVRs trans atlantics as an example of this, it only has a few and they meet demand.

YYC will compete with YVR on trans-border to the US, but I don't really see that as a major issue as both airports will continue to attract many flights to the US as they are shorter and less risky. The real meat and potatoes of YVR (inter-continental) isn't really threatened by YYC.

YVR's main competition remains with YYZ and it's ability to provide service to the pacific, diminishing YVRs role as an Asia-pacific hub, and ACs preference to fly trans Atlantic out of Toronto, forcing Vancouverites to fly through YYZ to get to europe.

Also I think it's time you come back to Canada and take a ride on both Westjet and Air Canada, I think you will be reversing your statement about in-flight service, as in my opinion AC has surpassed WJ by leaps and bounds in terms of the passenger experience.
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  #4085  
Old Posted: Feb 9, 2012, 4:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
Also I think it's time you come back to Canada and take a ride on both Westjet and Air Canada, I think you will be reversing your statement about in-flight service, as in my opinion AC has surpassed WJ by leaps and bounds in terms of the passenger experience.
Hear hear!

The glee club schtick on WJ was cute for about five seconds, but those cheerleaders are supposed to be responsible for my safety?

Talk about mixed messages.
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  #4086  
Old Posted: Feb 9, 2012, 6:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s211 View Post
Hear hear!

The glee club schtick on WJ was cute for about five seconds, but those cheerleaders are supposed to be responsible for my safety?

Talk about mixed messages.
+1,000! AC has upped their game so much so that I dare say I thoroughly enjoy flying with them.

Re: AC's preference to fly trans-atlantic out of YYZ - that's just market dynamics. AC tried, for example, CDG out of YVR and it didn't work. Both yield and loads are simply higher out of YYZ to Europe, so the preference is really just economics more so than anything else.
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  #4087  
Old Posted: Feb 9, 2012, 6:26 PM
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Yea I'm not saying its a preference in terms of some guy think it would be neat that they fly out of YYZ, im saying they made a business decision to route a chunk of western travelers through Toronto to capitalize on economies of scale.

Sorry in retrospect preference wasn't really the most accurate term.
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  #4088  
Old Posted: Feb 9, 2012, 7:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACT7 View Post
+1,000! AC has upped their game so much so that I dare say I thoroughly enjoy flying with them.
I agree, remember flying AC back in 2000 and it was horrible, made even more so by the fact that I flew transpacific with Malaysian, who are amazing.

Nowadays they are professional and efficient, if not over the top for service like some of the Asian carriers. I would rank them on par with Lufthansa, Cathay Pacific and a serious step above every American carrier (US Air and United are some of the worst mainline I have ever flown.)

West Jet is a discount carrier, with lame jokes and lamer surcharges. The worst is flying a multi leg route with them and having the FA’s make the exact same folksy- assed jokes at every take off and landing. The cheery bullshit is actually scripted, which makes it even more annoying.
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  #4089  
Old Posted: Feb 9, 2012, 7:34 PM
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Couldn't agree more with you PaperTiger, AC has really stepped their game up. Even on a low-yielding route like YYC-OGG the service was excellent, frequent and always friendly.
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  #4090  
Old Posted: Feb 9, 2012, 7:34 PM
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One can't argue AC hasn't improved. But I think service levels, for the most part (and I'm basing it on an average of my personal experiences), vary depending on where the service is based. YYZ AC staff, I find, are superior to the YVR ones. On the ground, AC service at YVR is horrendous: disorganized, unhelpful, and sometimes down right rude. I've never had a good experience approaching a gate agent. YYZ is not much better in this case I find. A bit, but not by much. I guess this is why I don't see the need for airlines to have their own ground crew services. I'm sure contractors can deliver a service quality much higher than what is achieved right now. On the air, aside from the excellent in-flight product AC has (superior to North American and European carriers, AF-KL, UA, CO, US, AA, and BA included), ACs service has also improved a lot. But I find YYZ-based flight attendants, for the most part, are really nice. Ones from YVR handling PEK and HKG are a bit more rude (haven't experienced NRT or ICN yet). YUL ones, at least the ones that fly to CDG, aren't that great. Actually, I had a time where the flight attendant handling my aisle didn't speak a word of English. I understand that it's a CDG-bound flight, originating from French Canada, and I understand a basic level of French, but seriously on a national carrier and on an international route, I find it unacceptable and a bit disrespectful. Now that I think about it, I think I should sue AC in-light of the recent incidents where AC didn't provide service in French haha.

I value in-flight product over service since I don't ask for much service anyway, so I love AC until they've downgraded all their transpacific fares to Tango from Tango+. That's a 50% mileage reduction! And they've kept it at the same price! It's only a matter of time that this happens to the Europe routes (while there are Tango fares available for transatlantic flights, Tango+ it's often cheaper, though I'm sure this won't last). This alone, along with a lot of devaluations within the past year, is enough for me to fly with UA+CO and other Star Alliance carriers than AC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by twoNeurons View Post
Could you elaborate on this? I mean, if you're flying out of Vancouver, you are essentially on a US domestic flight to any US Airport, correct? Does SFO have a leg up over other airports somehow?

Excuse my ignorance on this.
If I had to transfer through SFO, and I actually choose to fly down to the states sometimes for extra mileage, I would prefer to do it at SFO. For one, they are one of the best airports in the States (at least that's from my personal experiences). But TSA doesn't operate the security there: it regulates private firms that handle the security, and the security there is much less... errr... annoying than the TSA counterparts in many American airports.
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  #4091  
Old Posted: Feb 9, 2012, 7:39 PM
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WRT to AC vs. WS, the main problem is WS is no longer a "discount" airline. The fares are 95% of the time exactly the same as AC, and AC now provides better in-cabin features (with the exception of Live TV, but I can do without re-runs of Storage Wars for a few hours). One just has to have bought in to the "culture" of WS to honestly prefer them over AC.

That said, the E75 still scares the crap out of me ever since I was in one that was losing hydraulics last year and had to return to Toronto with firetrucks lining the runway lol Evidently those rickety Brazilian planes have a ton of hydraulic issues, so it's the rare case where I'll actually pay more to fly on a 320. But now I'm just on edge for those damn cabin chimes I never even noticed until that flight and don't really know what they mean still. I just know that if it chimes more than 3 times in a row you have a 50% chance of being screwed.

Yeah, my next flight on AC the "wheels up" chime resulted in me thinking my demise was imminent.

But I am flying WS to Orlando at the end of the month because they are the only ones with a direct flight. Hopefully I can survive being squished for 5.5 hours.
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Last edited by Yume-sama; Feb 9, 2012 at 7:50 PM.
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  #4092  
Old Posted: Feb 9, 2012, 8:09 PM
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YVR January 2012 numbers are up 5.5% over 2011

Asia-Pacific traffic is up 8%
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  #4093  
Old Posted: Feb 9, 2012, 8:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craneSpotter View Post
YVR January 2012 numbers are up 5.5% over 2011

Asia-Pacific traffic is up 8%
Do you have a reference for that?
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  #4094  
Old Posted: Feb 9, 2012, 9:26 PM
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A raft of trade deals with China today. From the National Post:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/02...um-and-pandas/

Of relevance to this thread is the air travel deal, though I haven't been able to find specifics. Anyone know the current restrictions?
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  #4095  
Old Posted: Feb 9, 2012, 10:18 PM
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I haven't flown Air Canada domestically for close to a decade. The change in experience (and cost) from domestic Air Canada to West Jet was so immense back then that I switched over to West Jet and haven't looked back since. Occasionally the price for a flight would be so close as to make no difference but I just had no interest in flying with Air Canada. The last straw with them for me was a flight into Montreal. The bags for the flight never came out and while the problem was with the airport, Air Canada staff were beyond uncaring; they were outright belligerent and refused to speak English to anyone who addressed them in that language. Finally when the flight's bags were found we were informed that they had been set out for us outside in the well-below-zero December night against the wall of the taxi/limo pickup/drop off area. There were four or five flights' worth of identical black bags all randomly laid out and the Air Canada staffperson who was supposed to be looking out for us was rude and then walked away for good as dozens of people were trying to get assistance. I'm certain there were a whole bunch of issues, but that was it. Air Canada blew it with me for a decade.

Now, if they have improved their in-flight and ground-side service, then more power to them. However they have only done that because West Jet was growing and capturing loyal passengers. I only fly two or three times a year, but that adds up to dozens of flights they have missed out on based on past behaviour. It's like the Big Three auto companies; after building lousy cars for decades they finally have upped their game and are shocked that so many people are still of the opinion that they build below-average cars. You can't turn around public opinion on a dime and you just know they will revert back to old habits the moment their competition slackens.

/rant
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  #4096  
Old Posted: Feb 9, 2012, 10:38 PM
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I have had nothing but excellent experiences on AC and AC Express over the last couple of years including over Christmas again. My recent experiences on trans-Tasman and trans-Pacific on Air NZ recently were also top notch. Hard to choose! AC Maple Leaf lounges, however, bordering on embarrassing (all 3 of YVR's anyway). Compared to other Star Alliance lounges worldwide.

Good result for January. I expect to see Asia Pacific continue to do well.

As for the China news, hopefully this will pave the way for Sichuan Airlines to actually start their new service from that Letter of Intent. LOI's usually don't mean much... but maybe this one will eventuate.

Last edited by Johnny Aussie; Feb 10, 2012 at 4:24 AM.
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  #4097  
Old Posted: Feb 9, 2012, 10:59 PM
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AC has been good to me out of Shanghai. Friendly, nice cabins and, surprising, decent food.

While it may take a while for anything to happen regarding these trade deals with China, expect A LOT more Chinese tourists to be coming. Last year, Chinese tourism in Canada was up 25%, just one year after China deemed Canada a 'special travel zone' (or whatever it's called). Air China and Air Canada are trying to coordinate more flights as the ones currently out of Shanghai and Beijing are completely jammed annually.
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  #4098  
Old Posted: Feb 9, 2012, 11:16 PM
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My experience has always been AC intl is one of the best while domestic is pretty bad. Noticed the same with BA as well though.
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  #4099  
Old Posted: Feb 9, 2012, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACT7 View Post
Do you have a reference for that?
http://www.bivinteractive.com/index....news&Itemid=46
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  #4100  
Old Posted: Feb 9, 2012, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by giallo View Post

While it may take a while for anything to happen regarding these trade deals with China, expect A LOT more Chinese tourists to be coming. Last year, Chinese tourism in Canada was up 25%, just one year after China deemed Canada a 'special travel zone' (or whatever it's called). Air China and Air Canada are trying to coordinate more flights as the ones currently out of Shanghai and Beijing are completely jammed annually.
This is the kind of 'free' advertising BC is getting on Chinese TV these days.

Video Link
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