YVR - Airport & Destinations Discussion

[incognism]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Would this still mean a once-a-week service to Atlanta anyway? Atlanta seems such an ideal jumping-off point for anything southeasterly, be it Jo'burg, DisneyWorld, Caracas, or Sao Paulo. Seems a shame not to have better service there. Often more direct than going via YYZ anyway.

Delta runs YVR-SLC and YVR-MSP which both have numerous connections to ATL (since all three are DL hubs) and codeshare on WS and AS flights to LAX, PDX, SEA, and LAS for additional connections.

I can't imagine what would actually justify a once daily YVR-ATL.

[SpongeG]

just sucks if you wanna fly on overseas - you have to bounce around the USA before you get on your way and deal with all that goes on in a USA airport

[Valley_Refugee]

Would this still mean a once-a-week service to Atlanta anyway? Atlanta seems such an ideal jumping-off point for anything southeasterly, be it Jo'burg, DisneyWorld, Caracas, or Sao Paulo. Seems a shame not to have better service there. Often more direct than going via YYZ anyway.

It would be nice to have a year-round connection to Atlanta...probably has something to do with the lack of any decent SkyTeam connections in YVR. Air travel is becoming more and more about the alliances, for sure.

Going to Johannesburg through Atlanta could yield a 3-ish hour time saving over going through London or Frankfurt (based on the lowest possible connecting time SEA-ATL-JNB). I think South America is well-served from Vancouver through LAX, DFW, and IAH.

[Hourglass]

YVR was named best airport in North America and 9th best worldwide by Skytrax at the World Airport Awards.

Not exactly scientific in its methodology, but nice recognition anyway. And it's hard to quibble about Seoul, Singapore and Hong Kong as the top three airports in the survey.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by Valley_Refugee

It would be nice to have a year-round connection to Atlanta...probably has something to do with the lack of any decent SkyTeam connections in YVR. Air travel is becoming more and more about the alliances, for sure.

I agree with your first statement, that SkyTeam practically has little activity here in YVR anyway.

But as for your second statement, I disagree, and as a matter of fact, I argue alliances seem to have less of an importance nowadays than ever before. Back when the three alliances were growing, airline business cooperation amongst opposing alliances was not accepted, but nowadays, this is not the case. I think the gulf-carriers and their ability to perform without an alliance are an indication that alliances aren't necessarily the key to a successful business, but more about the business cooperation one makes with different carriers. As a matter of fact, alliances can even hinder one's ability to seek the best business opportunities. Take WestJet for example, it has remained unaligned and its strategy allows for taking business from both Skyteam carriers and oneworld carriers. The same can be said for Virgin Australia, which has became quite successful in rocking the Qantas boat down in the South Pacific.

[mezzanine]

^I'm not sure if i would count out alliances yet. practically, a stronger skyteam precence would mean more shared resources like catering, front office and maintenance for its members, building on itself. at least this would help the existing non-delta skyteam flight IIRC, the KLM YVR-AMS flight.

i suspect that if westjet gets large enough to fly more internationally, there would be ++ incentive for them to pair up with an alliance. I'm not sure if the gulf airlines are equivalent comparisons - say what you want about suspected subsidies, at least from the get-go they pay no corporate or income taxes.

I think seatac being a delta-skyteam fortress also plays a role with YVR being under-represented by them.

Interestingly, air canada's website allowed me to book YVR-MEL for equivalent cost as YVR-SYD, with the SYD-MEL leg being flown by qantas and my bags being transferred automatically.

[Valley_Refugee]

But as for your second statement, I disagree, and as a matter of fact, I argue alliances seem to have less of an importance nowadays than ever before. Back when the three alliances were growing, airline business cooperation amongst opposing alliances was not accepted, but nowadays, this is not the case. I think the gulf-carriers and their ability to perform without an alliance are an indication that alliances aren't necessarily the key to a successful business, but more about the business cooperation one makes with different carriers. As a matter of fact, alliances can even hinder one's ability to seek the best business opportunities. Take WestJet for example, it has remained unaligned and its strategy allows for taking business from both Skyteam carriers and oneworld carriers. The same can be said for Virgin Australia, which has became quite successful in rocking the Qantas boat down in the South Pacific.

I guess we'll just have to agree to profoundly disagree. Nearly every major US/European airport is a Fortress [Insert Alliance Here]. Airports organize new (and old) terminals around airline alliances. Gulf carriers and marginal carriers like WS and Virgin Australia aside. Why does AC fly to Frankfurt and Munich but not Amsterdam or Madrid (aside from seasonally on old planes)? Furthermore, AC/LH fly between Frankfurt (and Munich to a lesser extent) from Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, Calgary, and Ottawa...AC and LH are two founding Star Alliance members and relatively deeply integrated in terms of code shares. Why is United the American carrier that serves Canada the most? British/Iberia and American's joint ventures across the Atlantic. Delta/KLM/Air France.

"Game changing" airliners like the 787 MAY shake things up a bit in terms of serving marginal markets that were better served through alliance connections before.

i suspect that if westjet gets large enough to fly more internationally, there would be ++ incentive for them to pair up with an alliance.

I do hope WestJet takes a run at being a true international airline. You think SkyTeam or oneworld?

[Valley_Refugee]

Great news! Sichuan is starting 3x weekly Chengdu-Shenyang-YVR flights on A330-200.

http://airlineroute.net/2012/04/20/3u-yvr-jun12/

It's already updated on the Wikipedia article...whoever edits that one is fast!

[Johnny Aussie]

^ Damn you beat me to it! Already had started drafting my post!

Yeah that is awesome news. I am always skeptical of Letters of Intent... But at least this one came to fruition.

Let's hope it does well and other Chinese Airlines (present and future) open even more routes/capacity to YVR

[Valley_Refugee]

^Yeah, for sure. Missing Hainan of the big carriers.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by Valley_Refugee

^Yeah, for sure. Missing Hainan of the big carriers.

Too bad they've chosen SEA instead. I've heard they've been really successful on that route: they've managed to cater to a niche audience.

[Johnny Aussie]

Oops dup post!

[Johnny Aussie]

^Yes but Hainan flies mainly from PEK which is well covered by CA and AC ex YVR. CA rumored to increase flights again next year as well.

Where Sichuan is an important step as it opens up 2 new cities in China rarely served with overseas flights. As China continues to grow and with the still relatively new ADS of Canada this will only open more opportunities.

Don't forget Air China, China Eastern, China Southern and now Sichuan have "chosen" YVR. You can even add Cathay Pacific too. I would say YVR is very well served by Chinese carriers. China Eastern used to serve SEA as well but not for years.

[Hourglass]

I think you'll find quite a few people taking issue with you calling Cathay a "Chinese" carrier, esp since HK does its own bilateral negotiations and has its own regulatory authority that is completely separate from the People's Republic of China!

Nevertheless, you're right that much of the future growth in transpacific flights @ YVR will be coming from China. There are a bunch of so-called tier 2 cities in China with huge populations. Shenyang, who I warrant many people have never heard of, has a population of 7 million or so.

Back of the napkin calculations suggest that YVR will have around 106 flights per week to Asia this summer -- of which 40% will be to China (60% if you include HK)

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Valley_Refugee

I guess we'll just have to agree to profoundly disagree. Nearly every major US/European airport is a Fortress [Insert Alliance Here]. Airports organize new (and old) terminals around airline alliances. Gulf carriers and marginal carriers like WS and Virgin Australia aside. Why does AC fly to Frankfurt and Munich but not Amsterdam or Madrid (aside from seasonally on old planes)? Furthermore, AC/LH fly between Frankfurt (and Munich to a lesser extent) from Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, Calgary, and Ottawa...AC and LH are two founding Star Alliance members and relatively deeply integrated in terms of code shares. Why is United the American carrier that serves Canada the most? British/Iberia and American's joint ventures across the Atlantic. Delta/KLM/Air France.

"Game changing" airliners like the 787 MAY shake things up a bit in terms of serving marginal markets that were better served through alliance connections before.



I do hope WestJet takes a run at being a true international airline. You think SkyTeam or oneworld?

I seem to remember somethng a while back about the possibility of WestJet joining oneworld. British Airways is already oneworld. I hope WestJet can join SkyTeam, to give it a foothold in Star Alliance-dominated YVR

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by Valley_Refugee

I do hope WestJet takes a run at being a true international airline. You think SkyTeam or oneworld?

My money would be on oneworld. IIRC, westjet code shares JAL and Cathay Flights thru vancouver to other cities in western canada.

Aside from KLM and delta, i'm not sure if there are any other skyteam members at YVR, and i don't really see any synergies there versus oneworld's transpacific flights.

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

Aside from KLM and delta, i'm not sure if there are any other skyteam members at YVR, and i don't really see any synergies there versus oneworld's transpacific flights.

Korean Airlines, China Eastern, China Southern, and China Airlines are all Skyteam members and serve YVR. There would actually seem to be plenty of opportunity for onward connections to the US on Delta or the rest of Canada if Westjet wanted.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Valley_Refugee

I guess we'll just have to agree to profoundly disagree. Nearly every major US/European airport is a Fortress [Insert Alliance Here]. Airports organize new (and old) terminals around airline alliances. Gulf carriers and marginal carriers like WS and Virgin Australia aside. Why does AC fly to Frankfurt and Munich but not Amsterdam or Madrid (aside from seasonally on old planes)? Furthermore, AC/LH fly between Frankfurt (and Munich to a lesser extent) from Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, Calgary, and Ottawa...AC and LH are two founding Star Alliance members and relatively deeply integrated in terms of code shares. Why is United the American carrier that serves Canada the most? British/Iberia and American's joint ventures across the Atlantic. Delta/KLM/Air France.

"Game changing" airliners like the 787 MAY shake things up a bit in terms of serving marginal markets that were better served through alliance connections before.



I do hope WestJet takes a run at being a true international airline. You think SkyTeam or oneworld?

Good analysis and perspective. Thanks for this. It opens up different questions and opinions.

Originally Posted by incognism

Delta runs YVR-SLC and YVR-MSP which both have numerous connections to ATL (since all three are DL hubs) and codeshare on WS and AS flights to LAX, PDX, SEA, and LAS for additional connections.

I can't imagine what would actually justify a once daily YVR-ATL.

... maybe the fact that it's the Delta hub, and you can fly most anywhere in the southeastern states (Orlando, for example) or continue on to Latin America and the Caribbean. If we can already do all this through Dallas or Houston, forget what I just said.

Originally Posted by SpongeG

just sucks if you wanna fly on overseas - you have to bounce around the USA before you get on your way and deal with all that goes on in a USA airport

For sure, for sure.

Originally Posted by mezzanine

My money would be on oneworld. IIRC, westjet code shares JAL and Cathay Flights thru vancouver to other cities in western canada.

Aside from KLM and delta, i'm not sure if there are any other skyteam members at YVR, and i don't really see any synergies there versus oneworld's transpacific flights.

interesting....

Originally Posted by Hourglass

Korean Airlines, China Eastern, China Southern, and China Airlines are all Skyteam members and serve YVR. There would actually seem to be plenty of opportunity for onward connections to the US on Delta or the rest of Canada if Westjet wanted.

Great idea, and even better if / when WJ goes overseas ... (like Europe maybe)

Vancouver, though the hub city for Western Canada, is smaller in population that even Portland (metropolian totals of each city). When it gets bigger (and yes, it will!) there will be a larger air market, and there'll be scheduled routes we don't have now, I am sure

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

Korean Airlines, China Eastern, China Southern, and China Airlines are all Skyteam members and serve YVR. There would actually seem to be plenty of opportunity for onward connections to the US on Delta or the rest of Canada if Westjet wanted.

my bad. I'm not sure if WJ has any existing partnerships with those airlines, though. It might make more sense for WJ to be with skyteam, as alaska is a junior member of oneworld and can be seen as a local competitor.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Vancouver, though the hub city for Western Canada, is smaller in population that even Portland (metropolian totals of each city). When it gets bigger (and yes, it will!) there will be a larger air market, and there'll be scheduled routes we don't have now, I am sure

Vancouver is slightly bigger than portland, Portland has 2.2 million, vancouver has 2.3 million and 2.5 if u include FVRD