YVR - Airport & Destinations Discussion

[Gordon]

It's interesting that YVR SFO is included in the code share agreement because it is only a seasonal Summer route. I wonder if it is being converted to a year around route?

[teriyaki]

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/a...y-to-vancouver
"Frontier Airlines is trying to market Bellingham as the new gateway to Vancouver for Americans.

Starting later this month, Frontier will be flying directly between its hub in Denver and Bellingham for $90 on a trial basis throughout the summer.

"They're advertising to their clients as Bellingham being a gateway to Vancouver, which is good news to anybody running a convention centre or a hotel, " says Brad Davies with Virtually There Travel. "It's also a perfect storm for YVR in the sense that a lot of the domestic traffic is working its way south.... "

More competition in BLI should bring down prices even further. My hope is that this route does well enough to make it permanent and keep prices competitive at BLI with Allegiant/Alaska/Frontier fighting it out.

This may come at even higher expense to YVR traffic though if the price gap widens even further.

[memememe76]

I am finding Bellingham less and less of a deal, esp. when parking (with the Canada Line, I don't worry about my car) and luggage fees are taken into account (and wth is with Allegiant's carry-on fees all about?!?!).

But holy, $90 to fly to Denver, return? Too bad I have already planned my summer holidays.

[incognism]

More likely $90 each way.

Not seeing anything at the price though. $110 one way is the best I can find right now.

Seems like a half-hearted stab at UA. To be fair, UA seems to have some success running YVR-DEN but I wonder how much of that is o/d vs connecting.

[SpongeG]

parking at bellingham was pretty cheap and the security is really easy

most people i know either get a ride to YVR or park and ride when travelling - canada line isn't that convenient for those in the eastern suburbs and other than border the bellingham airport is not too much further from surrey/langley etc. than YVR is

[Johnny Aussie]

It's funny. Bellingham keeps coming up over and over as a huge threat to YVR. This is nothing new. Go back over 25 years when mainline PSA/US Air and mainline AS flew out of BLI along with UA Express. Back then it was all doom and gloom for YVR. In the last couple of years transborder growth out of YVR is growing quite healthily. Looking at summer 2012 quite a lot of capacity is being added out of YVR. Look at UA alone. Not saying BLI isn't having any effect but the media makes it sound like YVR is losing ground exponentially... stats say not the case. This "perfect storm" has blown in before.. maybe knocked over a tree or two.. but....

[Johnny Aussie]

Just had a think about this and realized the following. YVR's website is very thin when it comes to new routes or additional capacity.

Seriously, other than the current flashy Virgin Atlantic ad on the home page I have seen nothing about: Sichuan Airlines, China Southern's 67% increase in flights, China Eastern practically doubling flights, KLM's upgauging to 777, Air NZ increasing flights, JAL's additional charter flights, Korean increasing flights to daily, Westjet's new routes to Chicago or Whitehorse, Sunwing's increased summer flying, UA and DL adding significant capacity this summer, not to even mention the little guys... you get the point.

It is sad that not one of these has been put into a press release on YVR's website. Seems rather apathetic.

Man... YEG keeps talking about routes they are "working on" but YVR doesn't even mention those landed or increasing.

[Hourglass]

Yes, nothing like Calgary or Edmonton where every new route or service increase is announced with a press release (note YYC is of course the opposite when it comes to route cancellations a la Lufthansa)

In previous years leading up to summer, I recall YVR had a page on the website talking specifically about new routes and added frequencies. It seems to have disappeared. That said, new routes are mentioned in things like YVR Air Mail and on its social media sites on Twitter and the YVR blog.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

It's funny. Bellingham keeps coming up over and over as a huge threat to YVR. This is nothing new. Go back over 25 years when mainline PSA/US Air and mainline AS flew out of BLI along with UA Express. Back then it was all doom and gloom for YVR. In the last couple of years transborder growth out of YVR is growing quite healthily. Looking at summer 2012 quite a lot of capacity is being added out of YVR. Look at UA alone. Not saying BLI isn't having any effect but the media makes it sound like YVR is losing ground exponentially... stats say not the case. This "perfect storm" has blown in before.. maybe knocked over a tree or two.. but....

i don't think its a threat to YVR just a second airport the same way gatwick is a second airport to heathrow

i used bellingham once and would use it again, saved nearly $300 on a trip to san francisco and if seattle saves me money i would fly out of there too - have done that in the past, i deally YVR would be 1st choice but $ is the biggest factor in deciding

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

i don't think its a threat to YVR just a second airport the same way gatwick is a second airport to heathrow

i used bellingham once and would use it again, saved nearly $300 on a trip to san francisco and if seattle saves me money i would fly out of there too - have done that in the past, ideally YVR would be 1st choice but $ is the biggest factor in deciding

Seattle isn't as attractive when you factor in the costs of getting down there. It really depends on the flight, but fuel alone adds minimum $100 to the flight.

[g35]

^^ I think you're wrong about that. $100 should get to you Portland and back, not Seattle, in a car getting 25 mpg hwy and paying $3.50/gallon.

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

That's also a big PLUS BLI has. Parking is cheap, convenient and relatively painless... even for Vancouverites. It may siphon off some of the low end of the market for US flights from YVR.

For some reason, for me, it's often the same price to land at YVR as BLI, but much more costly to depart YVR. SEA does not offer much of a cost difference over BLI, maybe $20-50 on average on a one-way to the Caribbean. But I am willing to travel to BLI (about 10 mins driving time and whatever border wait over YVR? estimating) to save what is usually $50-125 one-way.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

i don't think its a threat to YVR just a second airport the same way gatwick is a second airport to heathrow

i used bellingham once and would use it again, saved nearly $300 on a trip to san francisco and if seattle saves me money i would fly out of there too - have done that in the past, i deally YVR would be 1st choice but $ is the biggest factor in deciding

Agreed... my point is just about the typical media overblowing BLI yet once again... It's nothing new so now it's Frontiers turn to have a fair go.

I too flew out of BLI once to SNA back in the 80s. Now since I don't live in Vancouver anymore probably won't ever again. But I can see, for some people, if the savings are big enough.. why not.
Same for those in Edmonton driving to YYC.. for some people if it's worth it why not? I find it quite funny that some people seem to take it personally
as some sort of betrayal or something. Personally it would be very unlikely now that I would drive for 3 hours plus when my local airport is only a 30 min drive. Even to save a few $100. But for others who would choose to that's their choice and nothing wrong with it.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by g35

^^ I think you're wrong about that. $100 should get to you Portland and back, not Seattle, in a car getting 25 mpg hwy and paying $3.50/gallon.

Seattle is 250km away
Fuel is currently about $1.45/L in Vancouver
Fuel is currently between $4.25 and $4.50/gallon across the line ($1.20/L)

Averaging those out brings you to $1.33 / L which is about what most people will end up pay taking into account fuel already in the vehicle.

25mpg is about 10L / 100km.

Seattle will therefore take about 50L of fuel, assuming going directly to the airport and no major traffic problems.

I stand corrected. It would be between $66 and $72.

Note that this isn't including mileage costs, incidental costs or parking costs but I didn't say anything about that in my original email, so I'll leave that alone.

Seattle's still not as cheap as people like to think it is.

[Hot Rod]

Originally Posted by Valley_Refugee

25 new Korean Air codeshares with WestJet, 14 of which are Vancouver routes:

From airlinerroute.net:

http://airlineroute.net/2012/05/08/wske-codeshare/

also of interest is that Vancouver is listed for every city pair (something no other city is).

I agree about the YVR website not updating destinations. But could it be that YVR is reaching critical mass, enough not to care to advertise? Or is it just a half-ass attempt at web management?

[Hot Rod]

Im surprised this was not posted by Aussie, but this likely solidifies China Southern's position at CAN-YVR for the long haul, if MU gets approval for Code Share on Delta feeder routes from YVR to Delta Hubs SLC and MSP.

Update at 0720GMT 26APR12

China Southern and DELTA has filed joint application to the US DoT, seeking permission to expand codeshare service. China Southern plans to place its “CZ” code on following routes operated by DELTA:

Detroit – Beijing
Detroit – Shanghai Pu Dong
Tokyo Narita – Atlanta
Vancouver – Minneapolis
Vancouver – Salt Lake City

China Southern also plans to codeshare on flights to following cities operated by DELTA:
Cleveland
Grand Rapids
Houston
Madison
Traverse City

[mezzanine]

^great news.

It looks like YVR's gateway strategy to asia is paying dividends.

I'd suspect that many americans would rather transfer in north america to get to second tier chinese cities, than to t/f in HK, beijing or shanghai.

I really wonder if we will get Ronald Reagan airport now...

[hollywoodnorth]

Japan Airline increasing size of planes into Vancouver
Airline says demand for flights is ramping up on both sides of the Pacific

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/a...into-vancouver

[SpongeG]

If I flew out of seattle I would take the airport bus, i know I looked into a flight to south Africa, it was $1900 out of vancouver with all the taxescetc and there was a flight out of seattle that was $1100 include all fees, it via Chicago and Madrid which would gave given me a 10 hr layover in Madrid so enough time to explore a bit. There was a flight via Atlanta from seattle that was about $1600 so not as big a savings but not too bad

Good news about the Japan flights

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by hollywoodnorth

Japan Airline increasing size of planes into Vancouver
Airline says demand for flights is ramping up on both sides of the Pacific

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/a...into-vancouver

Well, that is good news! I suppose it's fitting, considering what actually happened.... down from 9x weekly 747 to 7x weekly 767. I'm assuming it'll bump up to 777.

JAL's rebuild is going quite well, too.

[trofirhen]

Further into the same link posted by hollywoodnorth, this article about Abbotsford Airport's goal clearly show the developing air market in the Lower Mainland. The seedlings of a future megalopolis, perhaps?


http://www.news1130.com/news/local/a...-india-toronto